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Battlefront 2 Proves Loot Crate based Progression is a Failure

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Battlefront 2 Proves Loot Crate based Progression is a Failure

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    Battlefront 2 Proves Loot Crate based Progression is a Failure

    The thing Battlefront 2 and Fortnite Survive the Storm have in common is a Loot Crate based Progression system.
    With Battlefront 2 being overwhelmingly more popular the - community showed how much disdain it has for Loot crate based progression.

    Fortnite uses a similar and exponentially more grind associated loot crate system.
    Empirical evidence of how much negative reaction it reached should be a wake up call.

    If EA - actually admitted to it and are going to change - Epic should take a hard look at their own system and see the inevitable failure F2P will be if it continues on this path.
    Do we want an immediate solution to the issue? No.

    But at least an Admission that change will happen in the future will be a great start.

    #2
    I don't mind loot boxes when implemented in a way that doesn't hamper gameplay.

    BF2 gated progression and enjoyment with loot boxes. Overwatch made loot boxes a fun add-on, and let me tell you, I spent money on those loot boxes and I didn't feel cheated.

    My friend and I were looking for a fun game to play and we considered BF2 and instantly said "no" when hearing about their fiasco. This was about a week ago. We chose Fortnite instead. I have also spent a pretty penny on loot boxes here, but they feel far less satisfactory than Overwatch because of how important the loot is to the gameplay. I'll no longer be paying for loot after seeing both how unsatisfactory my bang-for-buck ratio is as well as how much the game pushes/requires loot to allow progress. I assume, from what I've read, that as I level up and things get harder and require exponentially more xp/loot to progress, I'll give up altogether, and likely have a bad taste for anything from Epic.

    Since this game is still unreleased, I'm hoping things can change for the better, but I don't know how willing the devs will be considering this game was made to be F2P. I almost wish it was being made as a full-priced game with cosmetic loot, like Overwatch. I feel like that would be so much more fulfilling and less frustrating, to feel and know that the game is saying "look, we know you want to play more, but unless you give us actual money we're just going to make this hard for you."

    Comment


    • SackOfWine08 commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm with you on this. I got some Vbucks to test out the waters and it was definitely not worth the rewards. But lesson learned lol.

    #3
    Like if I could pay 40-60 for loot and have it be of such a good value that I can now enjoy the game as much as a regular full-priced game, I would totally be down with that. But right now, the loot doesn't seem to actually be worth its money.

    Comment


      #4
      That is why I love Warframe Economy.
      If I spend money on the game, I know I will be able to get what I want.

      An because of the trade system I can get equal value for my own items if some one else wants.
      I put easily $500 into warframe and have 0 regrets.

      Fortnite though I have no plans to spend a single extra penny because it is essentially gambling with a double RNG system.

      1. RNG to get items you don't want.
      2. RNG to get bad rolls on items you either don't want or want.


      Right now you deffinetly don't get the value for your money spent.
      If it is a double RNG you should be able to buy 100 Loot Lammas for $10.

      Comment


      • LtMouse commented
        Editing a comment
        Just because you don't find value in the llamas does not mean others do not.

        We are given a generous way to earn free Vbucks to get free llamas. You can save those Vbucks for the special llamas. The choice is yours. Spend the free Vbucks now or wait. That seems like a fair a responsible way to me, considering you don't actually need llamas to get schematics/heroes/survivors/defenders either. All can be gained through missions as well. Weapons and traps you can pick up in missions to use.

        Do feel people complain because they feel 'entitled' not because they put any real thought into why the RNG llamas are there.

      • kakamouth commented
        Editing a comment
        Back when it was 200ish Vbucks a day I would have agreed with you, I never felt the need to buy which oddly enough made me more inclined to buy. The 50ish a day most players get is a psychological trick to entice players into buying additional vbucks just like the llama rotation.

      #5
      Not another "I like Warframe topic" and just because the vocal minority has a problem with RNG progression doesn't prove it's a failure. Literally all this topic is is saying you like Warframe. Battlefront is a failure because of DICE, they screwed up the first one and the second one failed too, they pandered to the CoD crowd when the CoD crowd has actual CoD if they want to play CoD they'll play actual CoD not a game that panders it happens all the time resulting in the same disdain be it the recent Halos that pandered, Gears Judgement which pandered, or Battlefront etc etc.

      Comment


        #6
        This again? I havent been following everything about Battlefront 2, but again, one (1) example does not prove anything. Fortnite can definitely improve, but come on.

        Comment


        • The_Last_Paragon commented
          Editing a comment
          Fortnite has not made a single system better than any any existing competing system.
          Stamina system? One of the worst I have seen,
          Progressoin? One of the worst I have seen
          RNG? One of the worst I have seen - and they managed to make it even WORSE by adding status damage modifiers ( damage increase on stun - and giving it weapons that can't even apply stun!
          Weapon balance? One of the worst I have seen. Non percision weapons are almost completely useless. Percision weapons like Nightlance and Shotgun sniper rifle outclass all other weapons.

          Thy have a proven track record at this point of taking a system people enjoy and making it worse.
          The only time they showed improvement was Hexylvannia. Otherwise their Monster Bash event was Worse than their Survive their Storm event after introducing their Progression system.
          In another words empirical evidence would be unfortunately against you.

        #7
        Wether or not the game is a failure, is beside the point. Micro transactions are a bane on video games, period. Micro transactions will NEVER benefit the player, or the game itself. Game mechanics are built around micro transactions, not around fun. No matter how much money you pump into micro transactions, it will never be enough, you’ll never have all the content, unlike the days of yore, where you had acces to all content after your initial purchase, and could perhaps unlock levels/weapons/costumes by actually playing the game, playing it well, and playing it thoroughly. It blows my mind that any gamer would defend this practice in any capacity.

        I keep repeating myself, but why would anyone (aside from investors/publishers) want micro transactions in their games? AT ALL? They will never NOT be abused. Anyone remember playing Mario 64 and thinking, “man, this game would be even better if it only had micro transactions!” Any game ever? Of course not. We don’t have to accept it.

        Micro transactions are still relatively new, and they’re garbage. Don’t buy into them, and eventually we’ll get games back to the way they use to be. Hopefully the backlash against EA is the first hole in the dam. I cannot wait until we can look back and say “remember when micro transactions were a thing? Blech!!!”

        Comment


        • Stormpickle commented
          Editing a comment
          My two cents, I don't have a problem with cosmetic micro-transactsions, IF they are NOT in a loot box AND the game is F2P. I paid into the early access to support the game and will never spend a cent on v-bucks.

        #8
        Any purchase that doesn't generate buyer happiness is failure.

        Comment


          #9
          You don't need to spend anything in fortnite to progress. The game is easy enough.
          If you heard there's a pay wall then you are mistaken. The only wall u will run into is a no one to play with thus u can't progress wall.
          To remedy this make friends, because there is no matchmaker lobby.
          They give you enough free loot to easily progress to the highest level as you play. Heck the current halloween event is super generous at giving out loot.

          Comment


            #10
            Generous...you know what's generous? Providing the full gameplay experience for a set price up front or a set price in microtransaction if absolutely necessary.

            RNG lootboxes are unethical to the core. Accept that or not, that's up to you, but don't dismiss this fact so easily. They are there to get you to spend extra, unnecessary money "in support of the game and developers".

            Thing is, I don't think any developer and passionate gamer would ever agree to a system like this choking their beloved players. I like to think this doesn't come from them at all, and we don't support them or the game buying these boxes. We support this unethical business practice in general.

            Man, I feel so stupid the more I think about it. I'm a whale, guys. I'm the problem. :/
            Last edited by Thorbius; 11-16-2017, 05:29 AM.

            Comment


            • LtMouse commented
              Editing a comment
              And then who pays to keep the servers running?

              And as to full game experience without microtransactions my friend hasn't spent a cent on llamas. He has only used the free Vbucks we receive daily. He has better traps and weapons than I. He prefers to wait for a decent llama to because available and usually has enough 'FREE' Vbucks to purchase a couple.

              Perhaps people should look at their way of spending 'FREE' Vbucks and realise they are lucky because Epic has been generous in giving them so you CAN get what everyone in the game has a chance to get, paying or not.
              Last edited by LtMouse; 11-16-2017, 08:16 AM.

            • Thorbius commented
              Editing a comment
              I wish it was that simple. I'm telling you, me and people like me, we are the problem with modern gaming. We invite these practices in with our wallets. It's not about keeping the servers up, don't be so naive, man.
              Last edited by Thorbius; 11-16-2017, 11:09 AM.

            #11
            I think the issue with loot boxes/crates is that it should only be used for cosmetic and non game changing items. If used for game advancing items then the rng part of it seems not to drop the usefulor better stuff enough to keep the game a balance of challenging, profitable, and fun.

            Personally I rather choose my upgrades with a in game currency and have better items cost more so I have to grind for the better stuff. And know that I’m getting something useful out of my grinding for the in game currency.

            Let me know what you think... I seriously like hearing everyone’s feedback to help the community and Epic become the best we all can.

            Comment


              #12
              RNG is the only reason I don't play this game anymore.
              Edit : And that new UI. It's so bad.

              Comment


                #13
                Thorbius:

                I'm with you man. I feel stupid, and I'm just beginning to realize I'm one of the whales. I paid for the $90 version and THEN spent another $70 on loot boxes and I'm STILL NOT SATISFIED.

                I just feel cheated, because the nature of the items in the loot boxes is gameplay-affecting, and I don't think I got an extra $70 worth of gameplay. Now that I consciously realize how bad it's gotten, I'll not be spending more money on loot boxes. It's true that we're the ones making this problem a reality, but that's also like blaming a gambler for their addiction. Surely the casino is the one enabling his addiction.

                Comment


                  #14
                  Keep in mind, though, that one will be a free to play while the other is a full price game. Battlefront 2's crates also affect PvP, whereas Fortnite's don't. Those two cases are actually fairly different.

                  And before anyone bring up that they did pay for Fortnite, you didn't have to, whereas Battlefront 2 you do have to.

                  Comment


                  • Mudrover commented
                    Editing a comment
                    A lot of people are leaving out this very important detail. Thank you for mentioning it.

                  #15
                  ^ Yes, you are correct, buuuut

                  With that said, if we pretend this is 2018 and I'm a brand new player who's getting into Fortnite F2P, and I find out about how game progression is gated by loot boxes, it would still be a crappy grindey time. I did not expect this when I bought the game today, and if I had waited until 2018, I'd still be just as unsatisfied. Sure, they would be "more justified" in trying to get money for a free game with loot boxes, but it would still be a game that I think didn't reach its potential.

                  I wish I could see some hypothetical experiment where there was:

                  1) Fortnite was F2P and designed with loot-box-profit in mind
                  2) Fortnite was designed to play like a regular one-time-purchase model in mind

                  I wonder which would perform better, and which would make the company more money as well as more praise/loyalty over time, which I understand is an intangible benefit that is difficult to quantify.

                  Comment


                  • Mudrover commented
                    Editing a comment
                    It will be interesting to see the perception when it releases F2P in 2018 but until then all we can do is speculate. I'll agree that the progression model in it's current state isn't perfect, but I feel the devs know it's not perfect and are making changes to address it. The last event is a step in the right direction IMO.
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