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The Revert Debate

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    The Revert Debate

    Honestly, i think they shouldn't revert entirely. I believe they should bring back the changes to mats only. Which was, increased farming speed and 500 max mats. Now about the whole 50 hp/shields per kill, i think that shouldn't come back, because of the 'unhealthy aggression.' Instead epic should just rework healing items spawns rate. If you realize it or not, always having low hp/shield is why people want this revert. Could it be because of the lack of heals you find when looting? Or is it because it gives people the fighting chance to withstand people that third party? Wether it's one of those reasons or both, increasing the spawn rate of heals would make fortnite more enjoyable, because getting hp wouldn't be much of a struggle to get back.

    #2
    The reason I don't think health and materials per kill should be brought back to the core game modes is that it was an addition that clearly gave the most skilled players of the game an advantage - an advantage that quite frankly, they never needed in order to get plenty of kills and win games far more often than others. The YT/TTV crowd can complain all they want about being third partied while low on health or "noobs" using RPGs or boom bows to kill them, but ultimately the best players will win most of the time and the rest of us will lose most of the time. In Arena mode where the higher levels will consist of all players who are at around the same skill level, then it makes perfect sense to include health per kill since it doesn't inherently give an extra advantage to a few players in the game over the rest.

    I would like to see the mats go to somewhere between where they were and where they are now. Maybe a 20% increase in farming rate instead of 40% and 999/500/500 caps for wood, brick, and metal instead of 500/500/500.

    Comment


      #3

      Here's the deal if many lower skilled players start to turn and suggest cheating is the main cause of frustration even with siphon removed I'd say bring siphon back. Clearly the harvest rate should be reverted. Pubs are okay but are a little boring and most of this is harvest rate, if casuals are still losing the same amount of matches without siphon as they did with siphon - might as well turn them back into batteries or shield pots. Epic holds the stats.

      Holding temporary player numbers that will ultimately leave the game because they lose either way doesn't make sense. A compromise would be another mode unranked mode with siphon, leave pubs alone and forget about sbmm for now.

      Comment


      • 5hawnn commented
        Editing a comment
        I believe they should just increase the spawn rate of heals and remove some useless items that could've been bandages, or med-kits or minis instead. If getting heals is more fair then it is now, people wouldn't complain too much about them removing siphon. Also when you think about it, with all the vehicles and glider re-deploy and rifts it makes it harder for people to get downtime to heals. But with siphon you get health instantly, so if mobility was reduced a bit too, that could also stop the complaints abit too.

      #4
      I disagree with the main points that have been brought up, yes my username might have ttv in it but that is just a joke to mess with the streamers, anyhow, I understand why people would call it "unhealthy" aggression but guess what! Fortnite resolved a major issue of thirsting with the revive van and let us all be honest, if you can thirst someone to get a kill, his loot and ruin the other guys game you will. That problem will never go away, however with Siphon actually in the game I could play to get kills and not worry about third parties, as it is a battle royale the entire point is for people to kill each other! The entire patch with Siphon should be brought back or add an arena squads game mode so we can still enjoy the times where Fortnite is still fun to play and I do not have to worry about fighting and not having any time to heal before another team comes around because of the high mobility.

      Comment


      • 5hawnn commented
        Editing a comment
        That's exactly the reason why I believe people want siphon back, because there is barely any down time to heal cause of high mobility. I know I said that epic should just increase the spawn rate of heals, but this won't work unless they reduce mobility (i realized i didn't mention that). So epic got too choice;

        1.Bring back the mats rework, but tweak it (500max mats across the board, but 20-25% increase farm rate) and increase spawn rate of healing items. But reduce mobility for this to work.
        2.Bring back siphon, if they don't wanna reduce mobility.

      #5
      Originally posted by TTV Virginツ View Post
      I disagree with the main points that have been brought up, yes my username might have ttv in it but that is just a joke to mess with the streamers, anyhow, I understand why people would call it "unhealthy" aggression but guess what! Fortnite resolved a major issue of thirsting with the revive van and let us all be honest, if you can thirst someone to get a kill, his loot and ruin the other guys game you will. That problem will never go away, however with Siphon actually in the game I could play to get kills and not worry about third parties, as it is a battle royale the entire point is for people to kill each other! The entire patch with Siphon should be brought back or add an arena squads game mode so we can still enjoy the times where Fortnite is still fun to play and I do not have to worry about fighting and not having any time to heal before another team comes around because of the high mobility.
      I appreciate your viewpoints and agree that it would be nice to have a Siphon version of Squad mode available so that players can choose which style they want in all three of the core game modes. But I have to disagree with the part of your comment I put in bold - Battle Royale is about survival, not necessarily about killing each other. Whether the winner is a pro with 20 kills, or a decent player with 3 or 4 kills, or even a noob who hid in a bush all game as the other 99 players killed each other and the last guy died in the storm, ultimately the winner is the winner whichever strategy and level of aggression/passiveness they chose to use. If you want to play for kills that's totally fine, but playing for kills will decrease your chances of actually winning the game at the end because more fights equal more chances for you to be killed - and yes, it might be from a third party situation. Siphon, in my opinion, disproportionately helped the best players in the game who can get 8 or 10 or 12 kills in a game without dying - i.e. the players who didn't need an extra advantage to begin with.

      Comment


        #6
        That is a horrible idea. If you get no shield when you are better then everyone else, that is unfair. If it is really that serious to epic games, they should make a game mode for complete bots who do not want the revert and get no kills all game while hiding in 1 by 1's (Stats Should Not Count In This Mode). There is a point in time that arena mode turns into bot central and people hide all game which is not fun at all. If you are not good at the game, you are a player who does not want shields per kill back. Get good like the rest of us players who had to and that is final. They need to revert like most of the community wants to remain a good game.

        Comment


        • 5hawnn commented
          Editing a comment
          Siphon made the game a lot easier trust me, I could've played recklessly when siphon was added, because i was getting hp/shield back. People that rely on siphon to help them win gunfights aren't better players. Persons that with gunfights with 75 hp are the real better players. It's not hard to do, unless your the type of person that always builds and doesn't use much strats or smarts in gunfights. I've beat alot of people who build way better then me by building less and playing smart more.

        #7
        If a player considers themselves "better than everyone else", then surely they can collect shield pots and healing items, they don't need 5 weapons. Good players can adapt.
        (I'll save you the bother, it's 0.11)

        Comment


        • 5hawnn commented
          Editing a comment
          Not saying I'm a good player, I'm decent, but I usually carry 3 weapons;
          1st Slot: Shotgun or Smg
          2nd Slot: AR
          3rd Slot: Sniper or Rpg

          The last two slots are usually like this;
          4th Slot: Empty, Throw-able or Heals
          5th Slot: Heals

        #8
        Originally posted by V1ctyM View Post
        If a player considers themselves "better than everyone else", then surely they can collect shield pots and healing items, they don't need 5 weapons. Good players can adapt.
        They don't carry 5 weapons with siphon. The only time I ever had 5 weapons is when I didn't find any meds. That's purely due to auto pickup too.
        It's not an issue with "adapting." We can easily land in a quiet spot, camp all game, get a bunch of healing, farm 2k+ mats, stay at 200 health, then 3rd party every fight for an easy win. Winning like that isn't enjoyable at all. I don't play this game to do nothing all game, which is why I hate Arena at my skill level too.

        Here's what happened one of the few duo games I played a couple days. Landed at Salty. One team landed in the bottom of the house I was at, after me. I get 1 chest (30 mats), my friend comes over and we kill them. We then get pushed by another team from behind. While that team pushed, a 3rd team pushed us from the opposite direction. Luckily, the first team wasn't aggressive, and I got a couple lucky shots to kill the 3rd team who didn't seem to build. Teammate gets knocked, and I kill the 2nd team using those 30 mats. Get 2 minis from that and 120 mats. Once I revived my teammate, a 4th team rushed us. Friend manages to kill them both with a sniper. Now he's at 1 HP (literally), and I'm about 100. We killed 4 teams that rushed us, and what do we get out of it? Absolutely nothing except being in a position where any average player can kill us without effort. Most mats those teams farmed were used up in the fight. Same with healing. Early game gives a huge advantage to the teams that don't get stuck in a fight when there's no siphon. With siphon, everyone has a fair chance.

        Siphon allows for more fair fights. You still have an advantage by not playing aggressive and 3rd partying, but it's not a guaranteed win.

        Comment


        • SLxTnT commented
          Editing a comment
          You just talked about being aggressive yourself while hating other players being aggressive to you.
          An aggressive player gives you a chance to kill them. When they sit there and hide, you're out of luck.

        • 5hawnn commented
          Editing a comment
          Im aggressive, but not overly aggressive, i dont like when someone is overly aggressive. I'll be aggressive to a certain point, i dont constantly spam someone builds to just get it and get a kill. I'll just reposition to a point where they have to unknowingly run into me and get that kill.

        • SLxTnT commented
          Editing a comment
          If someone's boxing themselves up, there's a reason. Normally, it's because they're weak or in a bad spot. Don't spam, but attempt to catch them off-guard and replace a wall. Edit and shoot. I wouldn't consider that "overly aggressive." The players that build a fort to hide in or run at the first sign of an enemy are too passive. That's what Arena is like at the higher divisions.

        #9
        Originally posted by Bama_Joe View Post
        Here's the deal if many lower skilled players start to turn and suggest cheating is the main cause of frustration even with siphon removed I'd say bring siphon back. Clearly the harvest rate should be reverted. Pubs are okay but are a little boring and most of this is harvest rate, if casuals are still losing the same amount of matches without siphon as they did with siphon - might as well turn them back into batteries or shield pots. Epic holds the stats.

        Holding temporary player numbers that will ultimately leave the game because they lose either way doesn't make sense. A compromise would be another mode unranked mode with siphon, leave pubs alone and forget about sbmm for now.
        If your pubs are a bit boring (for skilled players), then players will play ranked. Kind of bring more people to the pool.

        I think the farming rate could be increased. Maybe not with a multiplier, but a rework on how much each element gives you. When small trees were giving 30+ mats early seasons, it was perfect. Some house elements were giving more too.
        Then they first changed farming rates based on elements (even removed materials from some of them, and at some point made a few plants impossible to farm). Then they messed with farming rates as a multiplier.

        I like the idea of going back to early seasons.

        For health syphon... I'll stick with "I don't need it, don't want it". In solos at least. With the respawn vans, everything could be possible in parties. But 50 was way too much imo. 25 would be best. It's 100 health for a full squad. Enough.

        Solos were so messed up early season 8, it was insane. Seriously, do not touch solos again.
        Last edited by lunaticmatto; 04-16-2019, 05:19 AM.

        Comment


          #10
          Originally posted by SLxTnT View Post

          They don't carry 5 weapons with siphon. The only time I ever had 5 weapons is when I didn't find any meds. That's purely due to auto pickup too.
          It's not an issue with "adapting." We can easily land in a quiet spot, camp all game, get a bunch of healing, farm 2k+ mats, stay at 200 health, then 3rd party every fight for an easy win. Winning like that isn't enjoyable at all. I don't play this game to do nothing all game, which is why I hate Arena at my skill level too.

          Here's what happened one of the few duo games I played a couple days. Landed at Salty. One team landed in the bottom of the house I was at, after me. I get 1 chest (30 mats), my friend comes over and we kill them. We then get pushed by another team from behind. While that team pushed, a 3rd team pushed us from the opposite direction. Luckily, the first team wasn't aggressive, and I got a couple lucky shots to kill the 3rd team who didn't seem to build. Teammate gets knocked, and I kill the 2nd team using those 30 mats. Get 2 minis from that and 120 mats. Once I revived my teammate, a 4th team rushed us. Friend manages to kill them both with a sniper. Now he's at 1 HP (literally), and I'm about 100. We killed 4 teams that rushed us, and what do we get out of it? Absolutely nothing except being in a position where any average player can kill us without effort. Most mats those teams farmed were used up in the fight. Same with healing. Early game gives a huge advantage to the teams that don't get stuck in a fight when there's no siphon. With siphon, everyone has a fair chance.

          Siphon allows for more fair fights. You still have an advantage by not playing aggressive and 3rd partying, but it's not a guaranteed win.

          The goal now is to land on the *** of the world getting 2k of materials and 200 hp, then avoid any fight unless you can do 3rd party. Repeat this process to win more games ... then complain about tryhards but in reality this type of players are the most tryhard you can find

          Comment


          • SLxTnT commented
            Editing a comment
            That'd be way too easy to get an 80%+ win rate. Insanely boring though.

          #11
          You guys want siphon back because you're good enough to pubstomp, but not good enough to win the World Cup. Get over it. All your arguments are a joke.

          Answer this or stfu; why not 200hp siphon and always on solid gold? Everyone starts with their preferred loadout, or the same guns even, and every kill gets you back to full health and shields. Every fight is fair, 3rd partying is no longer strategically wise. Why shouldn't the game be like this? All of your trash arguments for siphon work for this, and all of your arguments against this work against siphon. STFU, move on, get over it. This is you showing your weakness.

          Comment


          • SLxTnT commented
            Editing a comment
            "You guys want siphon back because you're good enough to pubstomp, but not good enough to win the World Cup."
            There's only 1 winner, so that's a pretty stupid argument. If you want to talk about getting into the finals, that's not too hard. Made it on the last 2 duo tournaments that I tried. Even came 145th in the semi-finals in the WC warmup. Would probably have a decent chance of top 500 with one friend that I know, but he stopped playing the game after the last 2 updates.

            By your argument, you don't want it since you aren't good enough to kill players "pubstomp." Solid gold is stupid as not all gold weapons are the best. It limits shotguns to a lot of RNG and removes the best SMGs. Getting all your health back is stupid too. The 50 on kill is suppose to help supplement healing items, not fully heal you.
            3rd partying is suppose to give an advantage, not give you a kill. Same with high ground, better weapons, or first shot. None of them guarantee a kill. What does guarantee a kill? Your opponent not having mats or health. As the average skill gets higher, both of those become more rare as they'll be used.

          • WhatYa commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes. I don't think it belongs in pubs because I'm not good enough to pubstomp. Yep. You got me buddy. What a genius insight. I had already quit the game because I was so outclassed in every single pub match I signed up for, and that's probably not good for a capitalist enterprise. Genius. You really did some investigative journalism there, buddy.

            3rd partying doesn't ever guarantee one a kill. It's 50/50 for me and a lot of players like me whether we win a fight regardless of how much hp we have or our opponents have. This was just more persuasive bs w no actual regard for the facts. Notice how this is further evidenced by your ignoring that I said "or everyone has the same guns" so that you didn't have to address that your "siphon makes the game more fair" bs is just that.

          • WhatYa commented
            Editing a comment
            Yu prolly right, 200hp siphon is nothing like siphon. lol owned

          #12
          Ok, I bought a $900 ultrawide monitor just so i can have more FOV. But nooooooo Epic wants everybody to have the same screen resolution than the retarded console players. It's really stupid because ever sense season 2 I've been saving up for the monitor and got it in season 7. Now in season 8, its all gone. If Epic wants PC players to have to same disadvantages as console players, than why don't console players que up with PC players? Because the skill gap. Well Epic, lets keep that skill gap, PC players will forever and always have the advantage of console players, just accept it. No words can describe how ****** off i am.

          Comment


            #13
            Perhaps console players might be a bit put out by you referring to them as "retarded", @Lil ßill. That single comment completely devalues your argument.
            (I'll save you the bother, it's 0.11)

            Comment


            • Col. Sandurz commented
              Editing a comment
              I fear this is a significative example of people wanting stretched res.

            #14
            Mkay bababa

            Comment


              #15
              Originally posted by Bama_Joe View Post
              A compromise would be another mode unranked mode with siphon, leave pubs alone and forget about sbmm for now.
              This!! I would add that you could even keep Arena as well. To give the really good players a way to challenge themselves if they want sit through the long que times occasionally.

              Originally posted by WhatYa View Post
              You guys want siphon back because you're good enough to pubstomp, but not good enough to win the World Cup. Get over it. All your arguments are a joke.
              Not me. I'm not good enough to pub stomp or win in competitive, but I still prefer siphon. It helps my odds in the beginning and middle games. You have to assume everyone is at full health at the end - whether they have been bush camping or slaying. It also makes for a more enjoyable game in that you don't have to spend an inordinate amount of time farming and you can spend more time exploring. I also, like the material caps as that helps below average players like me in that the good builders have to be a little more reasonable with their use of mats and can't simply out build me to eliminate me.
              Last edited by LuckyDuck423; 04-16-2019, 11:24 AM.

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