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New Shooting Model test now coming in 2018

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  • New Shooting Model test now coming in 2018

    Let’s talk about the new shooting model.

    In November we mentioned that we’ve been internally playtesting an overhaul of the current shooting model in the State of Development Blog v3.

    Our plans have changed a bit. We won’t be testing this publicly in 2017, and are planning for early 2018. Our initial plan was to offer an opt-in PTR (Public Test Realm) where players can test out the new shooting model, but we’ve decided to feature the new shooting model as a Limited Time Mode. This change gives us a bit more time to tune and refine the feature and allows console players to participate.

    This means the PTR will be put on hold for the foreseeable future. Thanks for understanding everyone!

    In the meantime, we want to hear your thoughts on the current shooting model, and suggestions for the future.

  • #2
    So what is the new shooting model then? Can get get some details on it?

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't like the current shooting model, it rewards spamming instead of aiming. Guns need to be more accurate.

      Comment


      • MoorHuhn commented
        Editing a comment
        "means you don't quite understand the model" I understand the model and I never said I want guns to be precise while moving and jumping, but as a global elite cs:go player I find it off putting when my shots miss even tho I am crouched, not moving and aiming on someones head.

      • Bien Facil commented
        Editing a comment
        then shots will land , if you don't overshoot , at a good rate , shots will land. I can understand if you want the model to change because you come from CSGO but saying it rewards spamming isnt right , CSGO actually rewards spraying and controlling recoil , not FNBR , in no way does it reward spamming , guns are accurate when you dont move , dont overshoot and crouch , that's how it should be to me , making guns flat more accurate will only remove gunfight depth , that's my opinion

      • killmefondly commented
        Editing a comment
        You should understand that then player that see his opponent first would get too big advantage. Precision already not that bad.

    • #4
      Originally posted by Lenown View Post
      So what is the new shooting model then? Can get get some details on it?
      Projectile over hit scan.

      Comment


      • #5
        If i see someone using a sniper rifle and shooting at me, with only half of his forehead sticking over the wall aka. cover i will be mad. IF THIS IS NOT FIXED DON'T BOTHER CHANGING ANYTHING !

        Its going to be 2018 and i still see foreheads shooting me over the walls !!!!! Its a GUN, bullet comes from its rifled barrel, not the forehead. Sometimes i wonder does anyone have a clue how weapons work.

        I mod things here and there & i know how easy it is to make a bullet actually come out of a barrel.

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        • #6
          Originally posted by Zir_ View Post

          Projectile over hit scan.
          Isn't it already projectile? I've had my crosshairs on people and the bullets fell behind them. And isn't sniper projectile? I'm just alittle lost because I thought it was already
          Last edited by Lenown; 12-15-2017, 07:33 PM.

          Comment


          • The _J Rich commented
            Editing a comment
            Snipers are Projectile, everything else is Hitscan.

        • #7
          I honestly do not have a big problem with the shooting mechanic. There are ways to be accurate with your shots (crouch/don't strafe to much). If you change the guns into lasers, then gun fights will not be as dynamic and the importance of building(a major aspect of the game) gets reduced.

          Comment


          • DJxJayStar commented
            Editing a comment
            Consoles should be able to Tap-fire with L1 and R1 Buttons, which would reduce spraying

        • #8
          Can you please have a look at shotguns in this model test. Specifically jumping and shotguns. Its way to overpowered. Just shortening the stamina limit or something. Please.

          Comment


          • #9
            I think its a bit rediculous that at mid range a shotgun can outgun an AR. Because with RNG aiming for the AR to be effective you need to stay somewhat stationery. Yet your opponent is spamming jump, while hipfiring from a shotgun because its easier? That cant be fair?

            Comment


            • #10
              Originally posted by The _J Rich View Post
              I honestly do not have a big problem with the shooting mechanic. There are ways to be accurate with your shots (crouch/don't strafe to much). If you change the guns into lasers, then gun fights will not be as dynamic and the importance of building(a major aspect of the game) gets reduced.
              I think turning it into projectiles will stop the AR/SCAR sniping. I've killed plently of snipers with it

              Comment


              • killmefondly commented
                Editing a comment
                cs 1.6 is iconic shooting game and you could kill sniper with AR in it too. In this game you even can't kill full healthy opponent from 1 headshot with AR. But again complaining.

              • killmefondly commented
                Editing a comment
                sorry that i answering not quite on your comment

              • Lenown commented
                Editing a comment
                CS has alot smaller maps. Which you can't really "snipe" in CSGO last I played it. More like quick scope

            • #11
              Originally posted by MoorHuhn View Post
              I don't like the current shooting model, it rewards spamming instead of aiming. Guns need to be more accurate.
              I totally agree. I often times try to single fire the full auto AR's to hit upper chest/headshot's. However the current accuracy isn't great, and I will die often times to another player just holding down the fire button, with pray, and spray. No question I feel the current shooting system at least for weapons like AR's, doesn't reward players who try to be more accurate, and aim for headshots. Also I feel like the AR's need more then a two damage range on a players body. Currently it seems you hit a player from there feet to there neck it's between 30-35 damage per landed shot, depending on the version of AR you have. Then you have 70-75 damage for headshot'ss landed depending on the version of AR you're using. I think mid to upper chest shot's should be able to land around 40 damage per shot.

              As shotguns can range from 4 damage up to 200+ damage shots. Often times averaging 50 damage per shot with shotguns. Which I think shotguns damage needs to be toned down a bit. As they're very powerful within 50 feet of another player, and a lot of the time you have players hipfiring the shotguns, then you add on jumping with it. I think players are rewarded to much with shotgun's, and hipfiring them. I think players having to actually ADS shotguns should be required for high damage/critical damage hits. The reason I mention this about shotguns is because often times I run into a player with a shotgun, and if they're within 50 feet of me. If I don't use a shotgun myself, and decide to use my AR. I will die more then I consider normal, or right. Because if both of us are just standard 100 health. It requires me to land four shots with the AR, unless I can manage a headshot(which currently it's hard to get headshot's that often, even if aiming for the head mostly). Then the player with the shotgun can hit me with two shotgun blast, and kill me. As 50 damage shotgun blast are pretty normal within 50 feet unless you're aiming at there ankles when you shoot. With that said, the semi auto shotgun can fire off two/three shot's pretty quickly, and with the current shooting system it's hard to land four or more shots on someone quickly with a AR.
              As it often feels like you can have your aim center mass on someone's chest, fire 8, or so shots, and be lucky to land two, maybe three shots if you're lucky with an AR.

              Anyways enough with this post of mine. I just wanted to be clear on how I feel AR's are performing on this game currently, and how much stronger shotguns are vs AR's within 50 feet. Shotguns should solely be used for really up close gun fight's, and there should be more reward for players actually ADS shotguns, vs hipfiring them. As currently I feel players are rewarded way to much for simply hipfiring a shotgun in another players direction, within 50 feet.

              Just tonight I played a game, I ran into another player who was probably 40-45 feet away with a SCAR in hand. I only had a green full auto AR. I ended up landing 2-3 shots on the guy who had some shield. He's able to duck behind a object for a quick second, and guess what he does? He goes from using one of the supposed to be powerful AR's in the SCAR, and switches to a shotgun. Starts jumping around from behind the object he ducked behind for a split second, and ends up killing me. Which I still had my AR out. I was able to land another 1-2 shots before he killed me. However his shotgun quickly took a lot of damage off me in a very quick moment, with a semi auto shotgun. I could understand a bit more if it had been the pump shotgun which is slower to reload, and fire. Still the point here is... The gun battle started in AR/Sub range, and the player had a scar AR. He choose to switch to the shotgun, as he, and a lot of us know.. The shotgun is really powerful within 50 feet. It's powerful to the point players want to make gun exchanges within 50 feet shotgun wars. Honestly it takes a lot of the fun out of this game for me, knowing that if I want to consistently win gun fight's within 50 feet I need to use a shotgun. What's the point of pistol's, and sub machine guns in this game? As currently I don't see, or feel players using either weapon at these ranges, unless they absolutely have to as that's the only gun they currently have. Which truthfully pistol's, and sub's should be a more considered option at that range.
              Last edited by llGuNPoWDeRll; 12-15-2017, 08:03 PM.

              Comment


              • #12
                Originally posted by The _J Rich View Post
                I honestly do not have a big problem with the shooting mechanic. There are ways to be accurate with your shots (crouch/don't strafe to much). If you change the guns into lasers, then gun fights will not be as dynamic and the importance of building(a major aspect of the game) gets reduced.
                Yet you have shotguns within 50 feet shooting hipfiring laser beams, making players want to use nothing other then a shotgun at this range. Currently using pistol's, or sub's at these ranges are a after thought. Unless that's the only gun that player has to use. I want the accuracy to be improved 100%, as I feel AR's suffer the most right now do to how accuracy is. Then if gun's start to feel even more power with shooting being improved. It isn't hard for the devs to tune damage percentages of every gun to balance things a bit. Right now shotguns are laser melting machines. Often time averaging 50 damage per shot, and then you have chances of damage up to 200+. Which honestly I feel you have better chance of hitting 100+ damage shot with a shotgun, then you have at landing a headshot with a AR right now, in the current way this game works.

                Comment


                • #13
                  I am *mostly* OK with the current shooting model in game. I wouldn't increase or decrease the accuracy of guns, or even their recoil, I would just make them more consistent. It feels bad when your shots are all on target, and miss, while they're doing the same, and hit them all. That removes skill from firefights and can make them frustrating.

                  Some above have suggested travel time for weapons, however I think this is unnecessary, seeing as that's not the cause of the issue, and the Snipers that need it already have it implemented (though the Semi Sniper really needs something changing to make it competitive, but without losing it's role). Maybe the only other weapon that would benefit from this would be the scoped rifle, albeit with faster bullets than the snipers.

                  I think one of the major issues for combat, especially at longer ranges, is that on top of the shots already being RNG, players often have no control over headshots at those ranges, and again removes skill and adds frustrated when you're hit by a random headshot when they were probably just praying they hit you at all. One possible fix to this would to make headshot damage multiplier inversely proportional to the range at which you're firing, baring precision weapons like the Scoped rifle and the Snipers.

                  While shotguns should rightfully be dominant at close range, they are excessively powerful; however, they also suffer from massive inconsistencies in damage, and due to the close nature of the fights, these inconsistencies are massively unforgiving. Making the damage they do more consistent at close range, but having a lower overall damage per shot might help in this regard.

                  Revolvers are the epitome of inconsistency. Hugely inaccurate, slow firerate, but massive damage. Getting killed by one of these at anything past point blank feels insulting, because you died entirely to luck. Meanwhile at the other end of the barrel, you can be firing as stable as possible and still hit nothing at 15 meters.

                  Head shots in general feel like they need a rework, with lower damage on guns that are inaccurate, and diminishing head shot damage at range as previously discussed. Headshots should be a reward for skill, not luck based, and it needs to be changed more in game to reflect this.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Originally posted by Farlarzia View Post
                    I am *mostly* OK with the current shooting model in game. I wouldn't increase or decrease the accuracy of guns, or even their recoil, I would just make them more consistent. It feels bad when your shots are all on target, and miss, while they're doing the same, and hit them all. That removes skill from firefights and can make them frustrating.

                    Some above have suggested travel time for weapons, however I think this is unnecessary, seeing as that's not the cause of the issue, and the Snipers that need it already have it implemented (though the Semi Sniper really needs something changing to make it competitive, but without losing it's role). Maybe the only other weapon that would benefit from this would be the scoped rifle, albeit with faster bullets than the snipers.

                    I think one of the major issues for combat, especially at longer ranges, is that on top of the shots already being RNG, players often have no control over headshots at those ranges, and again removes skill and adds frustrated when you're hit by a random headshot when they were probably just praying they hit you at all. One possible fix to this would to make headshot damage multiplier inversely proportional to the range at which you're firing, baring precision weapons like the Scoped rifle and the Snipers.

                    While shotguns should rightfully be dominant at close range, they are excessively powerful; however, they also suffer from massive inconsistencies in damage, and due to the close nature of the fights, these inconsistencies are massively unforgiving. Making the damage they do more consistent at close range, but having a lower overall damage per shot might help in this regard.

                    Revolvers are the epitome of inconsistency. Hugely inaccurate, slow firerate, but massive damage. Getting killed by one of these at anything past point blank feels insulting, because you died entirely to luck. Meanwhile at the other end of the barrel, you can be firing as stable as possible and still hit nothing at 15 meters.

                    Head shots in general feel like they need a rework, with lower damage on guns that are inaccurate, and diminishing head shot damage at range as previously discussed. Headshots should be a reward for skill, not luck based, and it needs to be changed more in game to reflect this.
                    Well you say you don't think accuracy need's to be increased/decreased.. Yet a lot of what you're saying I think points to it being the issue right now. As they have stated they want bullet spread to be more consistent then it is right now. Well the accuracy of the bullet's leaving your gun is what improves this. I think some people feel if they get accuracy improved, it will make the game less fun... I disagree with that. As it will not be hard for them to make per weapon changes in terms of damage per shot, depending on the area you're hitting your opponent's body.

                    As for the shotgun's I agree with you they can be inconsistent at times.. However they're often very powerful, and do massive amounts of critical damage to players within 50 feet. Shotgun's should be more key within 25 feet, not 50 feet. Also they're used 95% of the time as a hipfired weapon, with players jumping in the air often while shooting them. Players using shotgun's shouldn't be rewarded as often as they're while jumping, and hipfiring it. I feel when they're hitting 50, or more damage per shot. That's in the critical damage range. Because if a player has no kind of shield, two shot's like that they're dead, and 90% of the time it's a semi auto shotgun. Which can fire off multiple rounds pretty **** quickly.

                    Comment


                    • Farlarzia commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The only gun I want increased accuracy is with the revolver, but only if coupled with my idea for headshot damage at range.
                      Otherwise increased accuracy isn't what I want. A system for monitoring angle spread could be implemented, wherein the number of successive shots shots with a significant enough deviation means the next shot is x% more likely to be within a smaller angle of spread.
                      This means that the spread isn't changed but consistency is increased.

                  • #15
                    need to fix the hit box I hit so many people and do no dmage. have ton of video this is a big issue not sure why more people don't complain about it.... you can change what you want but if you hit and it dosnt count then you fixed nothing...... this is a big issue!!

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