Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The new HUB system

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    [OFFICIAL] The new HUB system

    Hi everyone, I wanted to create a place for people to discuss the new HUB system. HUBs will be in the next build so feel free to give them a try.

    #2
    After the stream I understand better where you guys are trying to go with this, I just feel like it's five steps back from where it needs to be if you really want it to replace the server browser and encourage persistent communities. Having run a reasonably large international UT community for a while, I'm just trying to think of how this would fit in for us in a way that makes sense but I don't think it really does. You couldn't feasibly have an international community represented in the game. From this perspective I have to wonder what the main goals of the system are.

    In BU's heyday, we had several FragBU servers that were mostly full every Friday and Saturday night in Europe and the US. Members of the site would join the same IRC channel to talk and get into one of the servers that had available spaces to play. Which server you played on was less important than who you were playing with, even with a high ping people were playing together. To me it sounds like the current concept for the hubs will force this system to have three separate lobbies, segregating the community and forcing us to continue using a system not tied to the game (IRC) for chatting and organizing games. For PUGs and organized competitive matches, it seems like you would also still need to use a system outside of the game in order to chat and organize games.

    Here's a drawing I made showing how I envision the user experience for the lobby system being in an ideal world.



    Ideally, your whole community would be able to hang out and chat in one master lobby (represented by "Local Lobby" in the image above). You could then connect/register "sub lobbies" to your master lobby (what I would imagine the iC in the sample would be with multiple lobbies all feeding off one master lobby) which would add a range of servers with their own connection qualities into the mix of servers for that lobby.

    When starting a game, you would go into a Game Group. The Game Group could be just you or enough people to fill a whole server. In the Game Group, you set the options you want to play with. This could be as simple as CTF or as extensive as CTF with a list of mutators you want to play with. Matchmaking should be smart enough to distill the options you selected down to a set of legitimate servers you could play on, starting with servers in your lobby (and maybe favorited lobbies) that you ping well to and expanding out to servers/lobbies registered with the MCP that could play with the settings you selected. How matchmaking would do this could be another lengthy discussion.

    In addition, the system discussed on the stream of seeing your friends that are playing and games your lobbies are playing on the main screen of the game should be there. This will help reduce the friction of actually getting into a game which is a big concern with a system like this that adds more steps to playing. (This is the "Bob is playing CTF" piece after Jim starts the game)

    I really think that the idea of geographical segregation of community servers is missing a big opportunity here. The lobby system should be able to completely replace Steam Community Chat, which, based on the explanation in the stream, it won't be able to do. My main concern is that the lobby system could support something the way a community like BU would use it because I know we are by far not the only community that works this way.

    P.S. if you can't read that picture tell me and I will either draw it better or explain it better.

    P.P.S. I realize that we're starting small and then expanding the system over time, but I think this is all stuff that has to be considered now instead of later when it would actually be time to implement it.

    P.P.P.S. TWD has informed me that I really need to re-do that image, so I will work on that and repost the image in a while.

    P.P.P.P.S. Here is a much better image than before. I will leave the attachment for posterity.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Sir_Brizz; 12-18-2014, 02:40 AM.
    HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
    BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

    Comment


      #3
      This is just begging for IRC integration.
      BeyondUnreal Podcast
      r/UnrealTournament Moderator

      Comment


        #4
        Where is Joe Wilcox when u need some good visualization..
        | Designer | Copywriter | Writer | Editor | Soundtrack lover | Known as 7eVeN^ since UT'99!
        Follow me at Twitter @Mcjansen
        Website: Mcjansen.com

        Comment


          #5
          Very impressed with this system, but also a little bit concerned that it was mentioned that this would replace matchmaking. I think competitive, ranked matchmaking is still something we should have in the next UT in order to build competitive appeal.

          Leave the lobby/hub to replace the server browser, sure, but certainly also have ranked matchmaking.

          Comment


            #6
            With that drawing Brizz I am seriously thinking you should move away from the technical side of things and definitely move over to the art and design side of things. Your true talents are obviously being wasted. :Troll:

            Comment


              #7
              but also a little bit concerned that it was mentioned that this would replace matchmaking
              ybb, I hope it replaces standard server browsing not necessarily automated matchmaking. However, I disagree with your supposition that some type of automated matchmaking is required for competitive appeal. In fact, I'd wager that it's the opposite with automated matchmaking being required to help new players get in to the game vs an experienced competitive player. That's not at all to say that a well thought out skill rating system isn't required. Just as it's critical to get new players in to the game as easy as possible, it's also critical to make sure those new players play at the right skill level! And to that we have a bunch of ideas that we are considering. Also HUBs will have the ability to skill level lock their features, so beginner players could join the "East Coast Skillz that Killz CTF HUB" and they could chat and spectate matches within. But they couldn't start or join matches to play until they progress to a certain level, allowing the new player to watch and learn as well as have something to work towards.

              Of course, any automated matchmaking system that works for new players should for the most part work fine for competitive players who just want to get in a game. But in the end we are looking beyond that towards creating a way to build real communities that players feel a part of and want to keep coming back and playing in.

              Comment


                #8
                I think competition is good to keep people interested in a game. A decent ranking is required in a lot of cases for that.
                I do however strongly believe that you should allow dedicated server owners to host ranked dedicated servers themselves.
                If you split the rankings from third party dedicated servers like Valve did with CS:GO you effectively kill the community ran dedicated servers because a lot of people only care for their rank they won't even bother joining a dedicated server from the community if they are not adding to their rank stats.
                Pro 2 Play Community Website @ https://www.pro2play.com/
                UT4 Server/Hub Guide @ https://www.pro2play.com/games/ut4/guide.php
                UT3 Server Guide @ https://www.pro2play.com/games/ut3/serverguide.php
                Need help? Join Discord Chat @ https://discord.gg/ETv384q

                Comment


                  #9
                  Alright I updated my hideous image already.



                  Just to add to this (I only marginally edited my original post) things that are notably missing from this are (in no particular order):

                  * The master lobby should show you the servers people in your lobby are playing in (even if the servers are not in the current lobby) and let you join them with a click.
                  * The main menu is severely underrepresented here for space reasons, but both the Lobby and the friend playing game concepts should be right on the main menu when you launch the game.
                  * A game group should probably have a list of players in the group but it was too hard to add that much detail.
                  * Game groups should be able to indicate to only use servers in the current lobby and even limit the lobby down to a "sub lobby" (i.e. only use servers in the BU East Coast Lobby).
                  * Game groups should allow the people joined to set their teams and have that carry through the entire match.
                  * Game groups should be able to set a map list or turn on voting at the end of each match.
                  * Game groups should be able to indicate if the server is going to be private or open to the public.

                  There is probably a lot of other things missing from this but hopefully it gets the point across better
                  HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                  BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Very excited about this HUB system, sounded very promising.

                    Originally posted by JoeWilcox View Post
                    Also HUBs will have the ability to skill level lock their features, so beginner players could join the "East Coast Skillz that Killz CTF HUB" and they could chat and spectate matches within. But they couldn't start or join matches to play until they progress to a certain level, allowing the new player to watch and learn as well as have something to work towards.
                    The ability to make skill locked servers as described above is very important I think.
                    In quakelive its restricted so that tier 4 players (highest level) cant play in tier 3 or below but the lower tiers can play in the tier 4 servers. What happens every night is a new player joins a tier 4 server and ends up having a horrible time themselves as well as frustrating the tier 4 players as it makes it impossible to properly balance the teams. That skill lock will definately help address this issue for ut.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Brizz, if I get the point, you want a "player farm" instead of Epic's "vegetable garden." Maybe we have to start small (garden) in order to grow into the functional creation of the larger community (farm) as more gardeners "take root."
                      Promotional consideration brought to you by: Tarydium Shards, those neat little projectiles that remove unwanted flesh...from your opponents!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Crotale View Post
                        Brizz, if I get the point, you want a "player farm" instead of Epic's "vegetable garden." Maybe we have to start small (garden) in order to grow into the functional creation of the larger community (farm) as more gardeners "take root."
                        My recommendation here is not that this system needs to be there tomorrow but that the fundamental design of such a system has to be in place from the very beginning if there is any hope of such a system existing in the future. From everything I've heard about the hub/lobby system, this design is not even a pipe dream currently however I don't think that a more limited system than this will do anything to make it easier to get in a game. With the currently discussed system, it will simply be harder to get in a game than the server browser and still require external programs to figure out more organized matches.
                        HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                        BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by zunnie View Post
                          I do however strongly believe that you should allow dedicated server owners to host ranked dedicated servers themselves.
                          HUBs can have their own stats and ladders so yea

                          Comment


                            #14
                            That's good to see
                            Pro 2 Play Community Website @ https://www.pro2play.com/
                            UT4 Server/Hub Guide @ https://www.pro2play.com/games/ut4/guide.php
                            UT3 Server Guide @ https://www.pro2play.com/games/ut3/serverguide.php
                            Need help? Join Discord Chat @ https://discord.gg/ETv384q

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
                              My recommendation here is not that this system needs to be there tomorrow but that the fundamental design of such a system has to be in place from the very beginning if there is any hope of such a system existing in the future. From everything I've heard about the hub/lobby system, this design is not even a pipe dream currently however I don't think that a more limited system than this will do anything to make it easier to get in a game. With the currently discussed system, it will simply be harder to get in a game than the server browser and still require external programs to figure out more organized matches.
                              Agreed, but I like to keep in mind that we should be able to build onto this in a way that brings it all together. I hope Epic is building this as an expandable application, that we will have the flexibility to build interconnects between all the various hubs and social tools, an interstate system if you will. Sorry for the use of hyperbole.

                              Are you listening, Joe?
                              Promotional consideration brought to you by: Tarydium Shards, those neat little projectiles that remove unwanted flesh...from your opponents!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X