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    #16
    Originally posted by InVader View Post

    -
    the Necris rebellion (against Phayder)
    Where did you find that ? I never saw anything about a Necris rebellion, only that Akasha created her cult and that the Phayder Corporation never acknowledged or denounced their actions.

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      #17
      Basically speculation about the alternate history for the Necris that's been brewing based on overall unhappiness with the current reinvention of the Necris and comments by Jim Brown.
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        #18
        Alright, thank you for the infos Wail.

        Anyway the Necris could integrate a lot of races... even if we only saw humans (or what seem be humans) so far. Actually we don't know much about their creators, the Phayder Corporation, but we clearly see their creations at work. And I think it's what makes the Phayders interesting : You see the consequences/results, but never the origin of it, giving that sense of mystery, discomfort, and distrut that the other races and factions feels about them. But no one can deny their high level of technology and the incredible (and incredibly costly) necrification process.

        I would really like to see how the story and lore can evolve, there's plenty of room to think of something incredible. Lore is always something I'm looking in video games, even if it's not their primary goal or focus.

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          #19
          I'm a big time lore junkie so I'm totally interested in the UT4 story / setting, and I'd really love to contribute things like map descriptions or character backgrounds or narration scripts or whatever.

          HOWEVER, let's be honest here: the lore for UT is completely bonked. Stories contradict themselves across games, settings change, characters change, historical events get washed away, etc etc etc. I can't find it right now, but I remember reading an interview with Epic about developing UT all the way back in like 2006-2008, where some dev said that UT has always been about making things that people find awesome and cool, and sticking it into the game. Seriously. That's basically why the Krall and the Necris looked like they did in UT3, why there was even a robot uprising storyline in 2k4, why there was egyptian anything in 2k3, on and on and on. It's all because a couple of artists had a hard on for that stuff, and then shoved it into the game.

          I'm not even joking either, that has literally been the philosophy design. Given that the story / settings are all over the place, everyone in the community is going to have their own little thing they latch on to, which will inevitably come into conflict with something ELSE that another community member cares about. Tat's just the way it is.

          IMHO, the best course of action is that someone at epic just picks a general story line / ethos that we're gonna go with that is left purposefully vague, then all us little lore nerds fill in stuff like map descriptions / character descriptions with made up historical events and happenings. Then, the official story guy at epic picks what he or she likes, and we all go with it.

          I dunno, what else can possibly be done?
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            #20
            Jim Brown is in charge of the storyline. So even though some sour grapes don't like his Necris story (), yet it is still the story of the Necris.
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              #21
              Originally posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
              Eh, I think it's fine. Like I said, most of my problems are about specific details. Whatever happens in Unreal Championship is completely separate from the Tournament stuff. I don't see why it's hard to reconcile but maybe I'm forgetting some detail.

              I dunno about the nanoblack stuff, but I don't think it introduces the sorts of problems midichlorians do, plus it played a central role in UC2 and UT3 so it made a lot more sense for it to be explained. Even with the explanations we have, almost nothing is known about it or where it comes from.
              A good writer can reconcile almost anything, even directly contradictory statements or events.
              Hell, a bad writer can do it, you'll just provoke the ire of fans: "It was all a dream." "NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

              That said, writing Taco Bell into the UT franchise would be a mistake, no matter how reconcilable it may be.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Wail View Post
                Basically speculation about the alternate history for the Necris that's been brewing based on overall unhappiness with the current reinvention of the Necris and comments by Jim Brown.
                It doesn't necessarily have to be set in an alternate history. Necris with free will have always existed in the Unreal universe. If you look back at some of the character descriptions in the UT games, you'll see that Necris were basically mind-controlled slaves to the Phayder corporation, who were then put into the Black Legion elite team and fought in the tournament.

                However there were also Necris, who regained their free will from the Phayder corporation. Of course this is the point where speculation comes in: the way they regained their free will is most probably through some rebellion (just like how the Liandri miners rebelled against Liandri, with Kyla as their leader).

                As for the new look of the Krall and the Necris in UT3, I'm not particularly bothered that these free Necris have their own middle-eastern-ish culture and style. The Krall definitively look way better compared to what they used to be. C'mon, they looked like grey banans. They're a lot cooler now.

                I though the Unreal Championship games were all spin-offs that had nothing to do with the canon lore. In one of them we had Necris Brock and Necris Lauren. It would be not only hard to turn them back into humans but stupid as well. I mean being a Necris is objectively an improvement with the reduced pain sensation, the mind control and everything. Why would you turn an asset like that away?

                It definitively would be nice if Jim Brown would give us something about the lore. Some updated Wiki/Liandri Archive pages, official story-timeline (this one is really needed imho), info on the various corporations and all that stuff.
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                  #23
                  Originally posted by InVader View Post
                  It doesn't necessarily have to be set in an alternate history. Necris with free will have always existed in the Unreal universe. If you look back at some of the character descriptions in the UT games, you'll see that Necris were basically mind-controlled slaves to the Phayder corporation, who were then put into the Black Legion elite team and fought in the tournament.

                  However there were also Necris, who regained their free will from the Phayder corporation. Of course this is the point where speculation comes in: the way they regained their free will is most probably through some rebellion (just like how the Liandri miners rebelled against Liandri, with Kyla as their leader).

                  As for the new look of the Krall and the Necris in UT3, I'm not particularly bothered that these free Necris have their own middle-eastern-ish culture and style. The Krall definitively look way better compared to what they used to be. C'mon, they looked like grey banans. They're a lot cooler now.

                  I though the Unreal Championship games were all spin-offs that had nothing to do with the canon lore. In one of them we had Necris Brock and Necris Lauren. It would be not only hard to turn them back into humans but stupid as well. I mean being a Necris is objectively an improvement with the reduced pain sensation, the mind control and everything. Why would you turn an asset like that away?

                  It definitively would be nice if Jim Brown would give us something about the lore. Some updated Wiki/Liandri Archive pages, official story-timeline (this one is really needed imho), info on the various corporations and all that stuff.
                  I feel like the rebellion part of the Necris would be a bit... redundant... We already have the Miners rebellion and the Robot uprising, I don't need we necessarly need to put a third. While it is indeed true that the Necris kept a good part of their free will (beside the damage or other troubles caused in the brain), the Phayder don't have a "contract" like the other corporations do. It is something a little more obscure, but they still give a great freedom to their "subjects". So if things turn wrong (like Akasha and her cult) they can simply cast them aside and make them a split branch of their creations. Yet maybe they still had something to do with all of this, as it seems the Phayders are more the kind of people that pull the strings and never get totally in the open.

                  I never was particularly a fan of the Necris and the Krall in UT3 (or even the overall design). The Necris, Izanagi, Iron Guard and Robots can still have a place (Split branch for the Necris, Asian inspired culture of the Izanagi, Iron guard... well still Iron guard, and a new design tested for robots) I think the krall were way off... They really degenerated into the mindless beasts we see in most of our sci-fi games today. They really missed the fierce attitude they had from their Unreal models (Why the stocky neck ?).

                  Well the case of the UC games is... well it's just that the community never really accepted what they did with the lore, and some characters, so they considered them non-canon.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by InVader View Post
                    It doesn't necessarily have to be set in an alternate history. Necris with free will have always existed in the Unreal universe. If you look back at some of the character descriptions in the UT games, you'll see that Necris were basically mind-controlled slaves to the Phayder corporation, who were then put into the Black Legion elite team and fought in the tournament.
                    I really suggest you read the material that's actually in the earlier Unreal Tournament titles. There is literally nothing indicating that the Necris are 'mind-controlled slaves' of the Phayder Corporation. Heck, there's nothing in any of the games up until Unreal Tournament 3 that calls Phayder a 'Corporation' to begin with. That, like the idea that Necris are cyborgs created using nanomachines, is an invention of Unreal Championship 2.

                    Originally posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
                    Jim Brown is in charge of the storyline. So even though some sour grapes don't like his Necris story (), yet it is still the story of the Necris.
                    Sure, that can be their story in UT4. We've had confirmation that this game is a reboot of the series, so we can do whatever.

                    I'm perfectly fine accepting multiple continuities of "Unreal" and I think it's fine if they want to go into a different direction with a character, race, whatever. What's weird and offensive is how people want to pretend like rewriting backstory for UT4 retroactively affects past UT titles. That doesn't work in reality.

                    Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
                    A good writer can reconcile almost anything, even directly contradictory statements or events.
                    Hell, a bad writer can do it, you'll just provoke the ire of fans: "It was all a dream." "NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

                    That said, writing Taco Bell into the UT franchise would be a mistake, no matter how reconcilable it may be.
                    But I thought Taco Bell was the lone survivor of the Franchise Wars?!
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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Wail View Post
                      Sure, that can be their story in UT4. We've had confirmation that this game is a reboot of the series, so we can do whatever.

                      I'm perfectly fine accepting multiple continuities of "Unreal" and I think it's fine if they want to go into a different direction with a character, race, whatever. What's weird and offensive is how people want to pretend like rewriting backstory for UT4 retroactively affects past UT titles. That doesn't work in reality.
                      Where is this confirmed? IMO a horrible idea.
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                        #26
                        Brizz: https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...l=1#post213774
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                          #27
                          Hmmm.... not sure I like it or not. What use is Liandri Archives anymore? :/
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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Wail View Post
                            I really suggest you read the material that's actually in the earlier Unreal Tournament titles. There is literally nothing indicating that the Necris are 'mind-controlled slaves' of the Phayder Corporation. Heck, there's nothing in any of the games up until Unreal Tournament 3 that calls Phayder a 'Corporation' to begin with. That, like the idea that Necris are cyborgs created using nanomachines, is an invention of Unreal Championship 2.
                            Now, now, hold up, in UT3 the Necris are portrayed as this cultist race that worshiped Nanoblack. I'm pretty sure there was something about the stuff with Phayder in the earlier games (it might not have been UT99, maybe UT2k4, but I'm pretty sure of this). Imma read up on this in the Liandri Archives (provided the site works properly now) when I get home.

                            Seriously though, we need the complete story from Jim. Some of the stuff even on that website is often just speculation.
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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
                              Hmmm.... not sure I like it or not. What use is Liandri Archives anymore? :/
                              Why would it not be useful? It's probably more useful than ever, although information probably needs to be rewritten and clarified as to what title it's pulling information from.



                              Originally posted by InVader View Post
                              Now, now, hold up, in UT3 the Necris are portrayed as this cultist race that worshiped Nanoblack. I'm pretty sure there was something about the stuff with Phayder in the earlier games (it might not have been UT99, maybe UT2k4, but I'm pretty sure of this). Imma read up on this in the Liandri Archives (provided the site works properly now) when I get home.

                              Seriously though, we need the complete story from Jim. Some of the stuff even on that website is often just speculation.
                              Again, I encourage you to read the material that's actually in the games. Most of what people say on this topic is stuff they've made up in their own heads or drawn from non-canonical sources. There's really very little there, and what there actually is doesn't correspond to the UC2/UT3 material without major hemming and hawing.
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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Wail View Post
                                Again, I encourage you to read the material that's actually in the games. Most of what people say on this topic is stuff they've made up in their own heads or drawn from non-canonical sources. There's really very little there, and what there actually is doesn't correspond to the UC2/UT3 material without major hemming and hawing.
                                @Wail: You don't like how the Necris turned out. We all get that. But it is time to move on - your posts are so full of negativity and bias that they are distracting and unhealthy. Your ideas and interpretations are no more valid than anyone elses, and you are no more an authority on UT lore than anyone else in these forums, so please stop insisting that you have it right when everyone else has it wrong. For the sake of the community, take this as an official warning. New ideas, like the one from Gregori in the OP, are not only welcome but encouraged, and we want to promote that type of creativity and positivity, not crush it.

                                @Briz: Yes, this game is officially a reboot, and we're starting over from scratch in terms of lore development.

                                @Gregori: I love some of the ideas you've put forth here and they mesh well with where we're headed. I'll post more as we come to a consensus internally.

                                In a very broad sense, we DO plan on developing more story than is revealed in character descriptions, etc. This gives us a foundation to to build on (and include story elements in the world and our designs), but doesn't require us to describe every single detail, or get lost in the story instead of the game. UT99 struck a balance with this while UT2/3 fell into the trap of too much detail. We don't want FLaGs, and we want to know (internally) who the Necris are without describing their entire history to the player.
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