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    #31
    Thanks for the clarification, Jim.
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      #32
      Well this clear things a little.

      Entropy, is the team wanting to put as much of the factions that were present through all the iteration as possible ? Or will they set aside some of the most offbeat characters (like the Nakthi, Nightmare etc...) ?

      I don't know about the scientists discovering an alien world with hyper advanced nanotechnology... I would like to see more alien races and less humans (or humans related) factions. Plus I find the scientific discovery of alien technology a little cliche.
      So far we have Robots (Corrupts and Cybers), Izanagi, Nightmare, Hellions, Thundercrash, Iron guard, Juggernauts, Mercenary, Egyptians/Nakthi as humans, humans creation, or closely human-related. But we only have Krall, Skaarj and Gen Mo'Kai as totally alien species. Why not make the Phayder trully and fully alien ? We don't have any description about them so we can go in this direction. They develloped this nanotechnology, the nanoblack, which possess incredible properties (notably the capacity to make someone "Immortal") and they now use the Necrification process for their own end by creating a new generation of super soldier, or eventually can do the process for someone which is wealthy enough to pay it (Liandri so far was the only one that we know is able to pay it).

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        #33
        Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
        Well this clear things a little.

        Entropy, is the team wanting to put as much of the factions that were present through all the iteration as possible ? Or will they set aside some of the most offbeat characters (like the Nakthi, Nightmare etc...) ?

        I don't know about the scientists discovering an alien world with hyper advanced nanotechnology... I would like to see more alien races and less humans (or humans related) factions. Plus I find the scientific discovery of alien technology a little cliche.
        So far we have Robots (Corrupts and Cybers), Izanagi, Nightmare, Hellions, Thundercrash, Iron guard, Juggernauts, Mercenary, Egyptians/Nakthi as humans, humans creation, or closely human-related. But we only have Krall, Skaarj and Gen Mo'Kai as totally alien species. Why not make the Phayder trully and fully alien ? We don't have any description about them so we can go in this direction. They develloped this nanotechnology, the nanoblack, which possess incredible properties (notably the capacity to make someone "Immortal") and they now use the Necrification process for their own end by creating a new generation of super soldier, or eventually can do the process for someone which is wealthy enough to pay it (Liandri so far was the only one that we know is able to pay it).
        Well since this is a reboot then, we don't know if Liandri is able to pay or if nano tech is even for sale anymore. All we know is what Jim decides to tell us. @_@
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          #34
          Originally posted by Entropy View Post
          @Briz: Yes, this game is officially a reboot, and we're starting over from scratch in terms of lore development.
          So basically nothing else is canon beside the Robot uprising/50 years of Liandri Tournaments mentioned in your other post? Not even stuff from before UT99 (Vortex Rikers, Human-Skaarj War, Miner Rebellion)?

          I'm cool with that. That means we can go nuts with the story for Assault/MonsterHunt. Thanks for the clarification.

          I think from here on out it's mostly obvious what stays in the game. We will have Skaarj, Iron Guard, ThunderCrash, Black Legion and Mercenaries for sure. Nakthi, Izanagi etc. are all a "maybe".

          I guess those will return only as fan favorites, if the community actually creates them and puts them in the game.

          PS.: As for the Necris, I think the coolest thing would be if they had taken over Phayder from within and are now THE Necris organization, growing their numbers by capturing some of the stronger competitors to necrify them after they fail in the tournament... you know, just throwing around ideas for future reference.

          Originally posted by Wail
          Again, I encourage you to read the material that's actually in the games. Most of what people say on this topic is stuff they've made up in their own heads or drawn from non-canonical sources. There's really very little there, and what there actually is doesn't correspond to the UC2/UT3 material without major hemming and hawing.
          For the record, here are some of the character descriptions directly from UT99. You can look at these descriptions during Tournament mode, when you take a look at your opponents. Just grab an old save file, choose a match, click next and you'll see all your opponents with their descriptions. Alternatively, you can also check the description of the whole faction/team during character creation WITHIN Tournament mode. Not all of them are there though (e.g. Metal Guard)

          Loque is a suspected Phayder captured snooping around the Io Directorship buildings. The Phayder have become more active as of late and are believed to be responsible for at least 6 tac-nuke bombings against NEG installations in the past month.

          Necroth is the Phayder Master for the Black Legion. Each Necris Master serves as a sort of dark chaplain, maintaining the morale of the group.

          Many Necris warriors are female. Known as 'Blademaiden', they fight ruthlessly; favoring cruelly formed bayonets and energy
          swords. Visse is a Necris prisoner of war made to fight on the Tournament on exchange for her life.

          For quick reference, here is the Liandri Archives link as well. Also, keep in mind please, that the characters might have a different description if you fight them 2nd/3rd time.

          This not only suits the UT3 story, it foreshadows it as well. Send me the address where I should send this box of salt Oh and I accept your challenge to a duel at any time.

          Anyways, now that I read this, Loques description suits my alternate story of the Necris taking over Phayder suspiciously well! I think we are on to something here
          Last edited by InVader; 01-19-2016, 02:40 PM.
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            #35
            Well, was re-reading the Liandri archives and characters bio after your post, and I saw that in addition to what you already posted :

            Member of an alien race known as the 'Necris', Kryss is possessed of a dark beauty. Beware, however, for it hides an even darker mind.

            So what the hell are the Necris or the Phayders ?
            Are they an alien race that used an ancient process using Nanotechnology (Nanoblack and necrification), and then decided to turn their gaze at the humans and earth ?

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              #36
              @Jim: I think it's intriguing how you are reading negativity into my posts here. Honestly, when Pete said the word 'reboot' it was probably the high point in this whole project, and I was out of my seat with elation. It's exactly what I have been hoping & asking for since the project began two years ago.



              Originally posted by InVader
              For the record, here are some of the character descriptions directly from UT99...

              InVader, to avoid engaging with bad faith here, I'll shoot you PM later. I'll happily discuss this matter with you further there to avoid upsetting people.
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                #37
                I've read pretty much all the lore available at this point and I do like the idea of a reboot. The chance to clean up any inconsistencies in the UT universe should be welcomed.

                I like many of Gregori's ideas. First and foremost, I believe that going with the traditional tournament concept for any single player experience would be better because of two reasons. 1st, I believe the main reason to not go with the tournament concept would be to explore some deeper story line of galactic struggle. The problem with that is that since UT is an arena shooter, no matter how well explained, people will have difficulty reconciling the game-play behind an arena shooter with a deeper story. Basically, any explanation will come across as cheesy at best. 2nd, a tournament story-line allows the designers to explore the concept of team management game-play, like ut2003/2004. While that system was very simplistic I believe there is a chance here to create something deeper, both game-play wise and story-line wise. What I mean by this is that in ut2003/2004 npc's were mostly just a picture, with stats, and a short description. Perhaps this can be improved upon.

                My idea would be to add more depth to the personalities of both individuals and teams in the UT reboot. How could this be achieved? By more interaction with NPC's outside of the arena. The single player experience could include a variety of "messaging apps" that the NPC's are programmed to use to simulate some level of interaction with the player. These messages could vary depending on the player's chosen race, gender, team, and in-game choices. The player would be able to respond which would affect future interactions in a sort of RPG like fashion. Eventually these choices could lead to certain characters becoming available to hire for your team, NPC's leaving enemy teams for other teams, NPC's sabotaging their own or other teams for you, NPC's preparing weapons or items for your team ahead of a match, or NPC's giving you information about weakness of other teams. Story wise, the best part of this concept is that the game designers are able to craft a story for characters and teams outside of random blurb read to you by some narrator. The player would learn about the UT universe by interacting with characters from the UT universe. Now this system could be very shallow, or very deep, but more importantly it allows for a potential for depth while consuming minimal technical resources. Of course, if the designers wish it, they could allocate more manpower to the single player experience, and along with community support create a sort of "hub" for players to explore and communicate with character in, instead of doing it mostly via text and pictures. Its a question of how deep the developers want to go.

                One of the things I most enjoyed about the UT2004 single player experience was that I would be challenged by other teams, and I could see the results of other teams playing. It added a sense of immersion that I believe benefits the UT single player experience. This should be expanded upon however. Having actual tournament rankings that are affected by those other teams' results would be nice. So would having stats and rankings similar to real sports for the NPCs and the player character. Kinda how baseball fans obsess about batting averages and other stats, someone playing the single player campaign could have fun just by comparing the performances of different NPCs, and carefully crafting their own team. It would be even better if certain NPC's could be trained by completing challenges. By beating a team of liandri bots(for example) in a certain arena your teammates(or perhaps a specific one) could "level up". This might affect stats like accuracy, agility, or whatever but would not change other things such as personality, and for in-game, aggressiveness and weapon preference.

                I believe these concepts I'm proposing would add a whole lot of replayability to the single-player campaign and allow for it to deeper explore the lore behind the Unreal Universe. While the lore is minimal at this point, it contains tons of cool concepts which could be explored and expanded upon. One thing that I forgot to mention above that could be worth exploring is allowing the player to switch factions in the single player experience based upon their interactions with NPCs. What I mean is a human character could go through the necrification process, or be boosted with cybernetic parts(or completely turned robot) by liandri, or be enhanced through the juggernaut process. In fact, by only allowing the character to start as a baseline human(unfortunately no skarrj) it would take a lot of complexity out of the design process for the campaign. This would reduce the manpower and time required to add high levels of complexity to the NPC/player interactions. After all it would be weird if the NPCs react to you the same whether you are skarrj or human after all.

                Perhaps I should have started a new thread for what I talked about?

                I have some opinions on the necris as well but I'll post that separately a bit later.

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                  #38
                  As far as the Necris, I like the concept of the Phayder corporation developing the technology instead of them just finding it. This is because it promotes the concept of moral corruption through greed that seems, at least to me, a common concept in Unreal universe. Gladiatorial combat came back because it was profitable for liandri, the companies fight each other because they want to become more powerful, they even funded rebel groups to try to take over earth after the skarrj attack was repelled(according to one assault missions description). I think it would be fitting if Phayder was greedy for immortality in developing the nanotechnology for immortality but got more then they bargained for with nanoblack, with eventually the necris taking over Phayder all but officially. I think a subtle power struggle between the remaining few human Phayder and the Necris is an interesting concept and could feed into my ideas that I posted above for single player.

                  I also like the concept that the nanoblack has some sort of subtle will of its own, which is something that the scientists developing it failed to predict when they started testing it. This could be the source for why the necris have a slightly religious feel to them. Nanoblack is almost something sacred to them because it influences their minds to feel as such, and perhaps the "prophet"(if it still exists in the reboot) could be the subtle will of the nanoblack influencing akasha and her cohorts. If the whole UT3 story is scrapped then the concept could be re-introduced in this reboot. I like that their goal in the end could be galactic domination and conversion of all human life to necris(and elimination of threats such as the skaarj) as gregori described, but the necris have always seemed to me a little too smart to openly reveal that, at least until they have the upper hand. They may lose their sense of morality when necrified but necris should still retain their intelligence. They should be scary because they are subtle and deadly(they are assassins...) not because they are openly looking to destroy mankind. As such I dont think all humans should look to them as a threat or they would have been ganged up and destroyed by the other greedy corporations looking to share their territory and resources. Instead, the necris should be a big mystery to most humans, one that gets revealed to the player over the course of the campaign. If something like my idea above were to happen then the player would be most deeply able to explore the concept of the necris by being one of them in the tournament(either chosen by player at start, or converted), or having a team mate suffer a fatal accident outside the arena and be converted(ala Lauren and Brock in championship). If a necris team wins the tournament, perhaps a brief ending video would show that due to the success(or failure) of the player, the necris amassed a great amount of funds from the tournament and were able to subvert liandri. Now with enough resources, they reveal their true objective and descend like a plague upon the galaxy.

                  just some thoughts...
                  Last edited by AvatarofWhat; 01-19-2016, 04:52 PM.

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                    #39
                    @AvatarOfWhat
                    I am all for the team management that UT2k4 had. I admit I disliked most of what that game was, but the team management was an excellent addition to the Tournament mode. I just wish it was more refined - less farming for money after losing (or in case of a pricey team, even after winning), maybe some of that character leveling you mentioned, anything from injuries to mental health. The current Offline Challenges in the game look like the Tournament is headed that way, considering your teammates improve as you win the challenges.

                    As for story driven experience, I guarantee you, it can be done through a evolved MonsterHunt (from UT99) game mode. If there would be a war against Necris, we would just replace the monsters with Necris. Some might not share my enthusiasm (because of the sheer amount of work involved) but I have a big plans for MH and the Unreal Universe once I'm finished with my minigun.
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                      #40
                      Soon Unreal : the RPG ! With an integrated social structure in real time : UTbook !

                      But what if I want to play the campaign with a Skaarj, a Gen Mo'kai, or a Nali cow ? Humans are boring, they only think like... like... humans ! Wait...

                      Also, isn't that kind of deep story and interactions giving a little too much details about Unreal ?

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                        Yes, this game is officially a reboot, and we're starting over from scratch in terms of lore development.

                        Alright, that's good to know. I think every single version is its own little "reboot" so to speak, but at least we have a confirmation that this is gonna be the 201X latest updated UT story edition. Warhammer 40k has done this over the years, and I think we'll be satisfied if we just come up with something that's good and acceptable. Like I said before, the Unreal canon winds around like a pretzel anyway, so it's not like youre retconning Lord of the Rings or anything.

                        IIRC, youre taking the BASIC premise of the UT99 intro and going from there. That's a good place to go on, and I'm looking forward to what's in store for the future of the UT setting - i.e. something that only obsessive nerds like us are interested in, and most players dont care about (tbh). We just hope you take what was successful from the previous generations that people thought were cool, and bring them to a new generation!

                        Like others in this thread,I fancy myself to be a little writer over here and I'd love to help as much as I can, given any opportunity!



                        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                        Just for some perspective, I have an 80-something page book filled to the brim with Starsiege lore, which is the precursor to the Tribes series:



                        The book details out the entire proto-history, gives artwork, features in game character models from Starsiege, lays out background descriptions, etc etc. It's a pretty amazing effort. I also recall reading an online history record of the tribes series which was even longer, with hundreds of recorded plot points. Fascinating stuff.

                        Does ANYONE expect this from UT? No, of course not. But I just wanted to put it out there as an example of what another company did with their series. Nobody but enthusiasts knows about this stuff, which is OK. #JustSayin
                        Last edited by BigFatErik; 01-19-2016, 05:30 PM.
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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
                          Soon Unreal : the RPG ! With an integrated social structure in real time : UTbook !

                          But what if I want to play the campaign with a Skaarj, a Gen Mo'kai, or a Nali cow ? Humans are boring, they only think like... like... humans ! Wait...

                          Also, isn't that kind of deep story and interactions giving a little too much details about Unreal ?


                          As far as the single player campaign, I don't think making it deeper is a bad thing. If you want to just play offline against bots with no story, there will be the challenges and create a custom match.

                          I believe that there is a chance for the single player of UT to be more then just one match after another, and that this will draw a wider crowd to the game. People who care less for multiplayer and more for single player will have more of a reason to praise the game and get others to try it through word of mouth and social media if it's not a very shallow experience. Those people can bring in friends who come for the single player but stay for the multiplayer and help expand our community. Yes, many of the current UT players really don't care about the story, but I believe that's in part because they haven't been given a particularly compelling reason to care. Others who prioritize story and single player experience havent been drawn to UT for the same reason. I believe Epic is interested in providing a more substantial and story filled campaign because of what they did with UT3. While that wasn't a great success in my opinion, they just need to learn from it and other UT titles, approach the concept from scratch, and expand upon the successful aspects as well as try new things. EDIT- apparently they may not want it to be so substantial and story filled upon a closer reading of Entropy's post above. Still I think it's a good idea.

                          As far as playing a campaign as Skaarj or other alien races, I agree that it could be a very fun and interesting experience. However, every game designer has to set limitations on his or her self and the team because certain things will just take too **** long to accomplish. It would be twice the work to have separate NPC interactions, dialogue trees, consequences, etc for both skaarj and human, more so if you introduced other races that player could choose. That's not a problem if the game is very shallow, but the deeper and more complex it becomes, the work required grows at a multiplied rate. If the designers do choose to go with a campaign filled with interactions and meaningful choices that is deeper then anything they have done before for UT, then perhaps it would be more prudent to focus on a human Player character first, and then if time allows and there is enough desire, they could add campaigns for different races as well. Considering the design philosophy of this game, it could even be an entirely community driven thing. If there is a framework for a campaign in place, it might make it easier for the community to design their own campaigns with different maps, teams, aliens. That is why I suggested doing a campaign where you have to at least start as a human might be the way to go.
                          Last edited by AvatarofWhat; 01-19-2016, 06:37 PM.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by InVader View Post
                            @AvatarOfWhat
                            I am all for the team management that UT2k4 had. I admit I disliked most of what that game was, but the team management was an excellent addition to the Tournament mode. I just wish it was more refined - less farming for money after losing (or in case of a pricey team, even after winning), maybe some of that character leveling you mentioned, anything from injuries to mental health. The current Offline Challenges in the game look like the Tournament is headed that way, considering your teammates improve as you win the challenges.

                            As for story driven experience, I guarantee you, it can be done through a evolved MonsterHunt (from UT99) game mode. If there would be a war against Necris, we would just replace the monsters with Necris. Some might not share my enthusiasm (because of the sheer amount of work involved) but I have a big plans for MH and the Unreal Universe once I'm finished with my minigun.
                            Yea, I wasnt the biggest fan of 2k4 either but Im glad we can agree that certain things can be taken from it.

                            I've never played monsterhunt but I wasn't trying to say it can't be done through that. I was just saying that the traditional gamemodes(DM, TDM, CTF) make it harder to explain a story outside of a "tournament" context without seeming forced and cheesy(as UT 3 showed us). I don't know how monsterhunt works but I would look forward to trying out a single player game mode based on something besides DM/TDM/CTF/Assault. I do think that there should be a single player campaign based on these modes whether your idea is brought to fruition or not, because many players will use the single player experience as a way to transition to online play. I think there is merit to having players learn the same maps and game-modes that they would play online through the main single player experience. The offline challenges do provide that to some degree however, so I'd be interested in what the designers think.
                            Last edited by AvatarofWhat; 01-19-2016, 06:03 PM.

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                              #44
                              I'm not hugely familiar with the UT lore but keeping in line with the discussion about the single player:

                              If you are familiar with the way European football (soccer) leagues handle their competition, they are based on tiers, promotion, and relegation (Europeans will understand this right away, but there are no US based sports that use this system). Basically, the goal is to make your way up to the next highest tier from season to season. So if you are in tier #3, the top 3 teams will move up to tier #2 (promotion) and the bottom 3 teams will drop down to tier #4 (relegation).

                              I think this would be a perfect system for the single player "story", where you could work in some small bits about the tournament history, etc. You could start at the lowest tier, select your team from a pool of "free agents". As you get more experience, you can earn "ability points" that you can attribute to your team members so they will gradually get better. The goal is to be promoted from the lowest tiers and make your way to the highest tier. This would also extend the concept of seasons, and you could even incorporate earning some cosmetics based on your performance in the single player tournament depending on what season or tier you are in.

                              Maybe you could even start with a Regional League (a la the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, MLS(lol)) and once you reach the highest tier of your region (depending on what race you choose to play as) and win that, you could then move to the Galactic League (a la the Champions league).

                              You could even treat it like FIFA's seasons mode where you have a transfer market for different characters. If Samael continually goes -3 and 40, you could swap him for someone on the transfer market.

                              All of these things combined could create a pretty immersive single player tournament that extends over many seasons, takes advantage of Seasons and cosmetics, and has significant replay-ability.
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                                #45
                                Things are getting way to complex here.

                                People will do a single campaign mainly for lore, learn more about the game and his universe, or simply have fun without the eventual stress of multiplayer. A system as complew as that will just drive off a lot of player, especially if they come for a shooter first and see league and team simulator.
                                If we really want to attract more people, grow the community and so make a real sucess out of the game we still have to keep in mind the more casual players. And I doubt these features are what they are looking for.

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