First Person Character Hands

[YemYam]

I had this question asked via PM but thought I would post here as well.

[QUOTE]hey, just curious about something... are you guys using the actual character model hands for first person view, or is it a pair of floating hands like in the older games? I guess what I'm really asking is do we need to make a separate set of even higher resolution hands for first person view if we're making a new character? Looks like you're using the 3rd person model from what I can see in the editor, but just wanted to ask

thanks![/

Yes, we are using the 3p hands from the character. The new system utilizes the hands from the actual character, although they are a separate implementation using the same rig. Currently the only weapon that is set up this way is the Shock Rifle. Eventually all the weapons will be setup this way.

Even though we create a separate setup it is using the same mesh as the full character. That way people don't have to model separate hands and the hands utilize all the same material setups as the character. This way the 1p hands will reflect which character you are playing and any fx applied to that character.

So when you are modeling your character be sure to put in a good amount of detail into the hands so they hold up in 1p view. We will use LOD's on the in-game character so the extra hand geometry will be optimized in the 3p.

We are still working on the system but once it is implemented all you will have to do is create your character, then dupe the mesh and delete everything but the arms and hands for the 1p setup.

Hope this helps, if you have any additional questions let me know and I'll get them answered for you!

[danpaz3d]

Just wondering how we'll approach cosmetic items in this case (Not for whole characters as you've stated, but for individual items).

If we eventually go for adding customisation for hand/shoulder slots, I guess this will mean that we'll apply 2 meshes as you've stated. One for 3rd then a duplicate for 1st? Or will it be possible another way?

[GreatEmerald]

A question from the weapon implementation side: how does one set up a weapon to use this system? To give a concrete example, I'm thinking about Unreal II weapons, which had hands integrated into each mesh already. How would one convert those to use the new hand system?

[YemYam]

Cosmetic attachments should be done at the socket level so they will automatically be applied to the 1p & 3p models. Since the 1p and 3p skeletons are shared everything *should* work but we might have to tweak some things as we implement more of the weapons into this system.

The Shock Rifle is the only weapon we currently have setup so if you look at that implementation it will show you how we currently have it set up. There are two separate skeletal meshes and their animations are played in syn. The hands take care of all the root animation (recoils, weapon bob, base movement, etc.) and the weapon anims only contain moving parts on the weapon itself.

As far as converting old weapons to the new system you would remove the hands from the weapon mesh. Any root animation would have to be re-done in the hands anim. There will be a lot of shared 1p hand animations down the road but each weapon will still need it's recoil/root anims done on the hand skeletal rig.

Hopefully down the road we can provide some templates and "stock" recoils so if you aren't comfortable animating more complex hand stuff all you will have to worry about is the weapon rigid anims.

We want to get all three new weapons (RL, Link, & Snipe) using the new system so once we have those implemented we will know more about how good this approach is or if we need to tweak things.

[GreatEmerald]

As far as converting old weapons to the new system you would remove the hands from the weapon mesh. Any root animation would have to be re-done in the hands anim. There will be a lot of shared 1p hand animations down the road but each weapon will still need it's recoil/root anims done on the hand skeletal rig.

Can you get into a bit more detail? For things like reload animations (which involve the hand pulling out the old clip and inserting a new one), there's no way a shared animation would suffice. So how would that work? Would that require editing every model out there, or will the weapon itself be able to override the hand animations?

[YemYam]

Yes, only certain animations can be shared and others (like a magazine reload) have to be custom per weapon. So every weapon will have a set of custom 1p hand anims and a few shared.

For some weapons like the Sniper the bulk of the anims will be custom as there is heavy interaction with the weapon, similar to the example you gave. If you want to use the 1p hand system then yes you would have to delete hands from every weapon setup and redo core root anims with the new character rig.

That's not to say you have to use this method. You could still implement the weapons the same as you always have, or only do it for weapons that have very visible hand/weapon interaction.

We are going this route so we can have 1 character skeleton that works for 1p & 3p.

[GreatEmerald]

Hmm, so could the hand animations be reused, at least in theory, by separating the hand into another mesh, removing the polygons, and then somehow rebasing it onto the reference character model? Or do I have to redo the hand animations from scratch?

[YemYam]

It's not the character mesh that matters, it is the skeleton & bone names/hierarchy so if you wanted to use the 1p system then yes unfortunately all hand anims would have to be redone with the new rig.

This is only if you want to use the new system, you could also continue to implement as you have in the past. The biggest drawback to the old way is it's always the same hands regardless of what character you are playing as.

With the new system your 1p hands will always reflect what character you have selected and any customizations they have.

[Frostbite83]

wann kommen die 1 person Character Hände endlich ich spiele Skaarj und hab immer noch Tayes Hände bei Necris genau das gleiche

[papercoffee]

wann kommen die 1 person Character Hände endlich ich spiele Skaarj und hab immer noch Tayes Hände bei Necris genau das gleiche

Ger:
Hast du jetzt komplett aufgehört auf Englisch zu schreiben? Ich hoffe, daß ein Moderator oder Admin dir nicht irgenwann böse wird.

Eng:
You have completely ceased to write in English? I hope that a moderator or admin won't get angry at you.

[Frostbite83]

ja mein Englisch ist zu schlecht und da ich nur Pons oder Google Übersetzer benutzte wurde ich schon so oft beleidigt das ich langsam keine Lust mehr hab mit den beiden zu übersetzen jetzt müssen die schaun was ich schreib

[papercoffee]

http://www.dict.cc/ ...besser als Pons oder Google weil es da viele Beispielsätze gibt.
http://www.leo.org ...Die Forumsdiskussionen ganz unten wenn du ein Wort eingegeben hast sind sehr hilfreich.
http://www.linguee.de/ ...wenn du versuchst ganze Phrasen oder Redewendungen zu übersetzen.

Wenn du Firefox hast kannst du alle 3 Übersetzer oben in die Suchleiste (normalerweise rechts neben der Adressleiste) mit einbinden.
Versuchs mit denen. Und pfeif auf google-trans, der müll kann gar nichts und macht dein Englisch sogar schlechter.
Kleiner Tip noch, nimm nicht die erst beste Übersetzung, die du zu einem wort findest ...im Englischen kann ein Wort mehrere Bedeutungen haben. Darum draufklicken und sehen ob die restlichen Bedeutungen auch passen.

I've just guided Chris to better translation tools than google. He'll improve now

[Frostbite83]

Thank you for your help and Tipp thanks my friend

[HexxuSz0r]

does anyone really play with weapons out ?

my god

[Frostbite83]

When come the 1 Person Hands for the Characters YemYam?