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[Model] Gorge (w/basic low poly prisoner)

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    [Model] Gorge (w/basic low poly prisoner)

    In the spirit of open development I thought I would open this thread to the public at the very onset, so far I have spent maybe 2 hrs tops on Gorge all up including the posts I have made in various threads on the topic. It will be slow going to begin with because I want to concentrate on the model, I want to make sure I have a solid polyflow on the lower poly for the sub-d mesh so that when it comes to reusing it or detailing the job is much easier and will go smoother. For now I wont share polyflow but rest assured I will as soon as Im comfortable and need some input (or help depending).

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    Goobas Concept


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    First basic mesh, just setting up Goobas concept on a plane, working out a few basic meshes and adding alittle low poly ****bash. About 45 minute mark all up (including forum time).

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    Starting to gain some form, working on poly flow for the muscles bringing them down so the basic low poly will be around the 6-8k tri mark. When I start the Exo I expect polycounts to jump but thats okay since the lower poly muscle guy can have a lower (or no) sub-d. About the 1:30 mark, just messing with finding extra concepts, poly flow examples.

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    JFFs Concept

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    Aberius Concept

    I will be using a number of things for inspiration, including Goobas concept but I want to try to stick with what the community wants despite my person want of having a larger heavier player class. I can certainly code that up later but for now just have all players the same size, to that end I started with Epics rig and Im working from that so it'll be the exact same scale as the Necris and Thundercrash currently in the game.

    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version
    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 07-26-2016, 12:31 AM.
    Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

    #2
    Hopefully, it'll bring together what made these three concepts good. This is a very solid start.
    Character Sketch

    Former IGN: Omega Lord

    "Well fans here we are for another edition of the bloodiest sport in the Galaxy. A Tournament where the winners become gods and the losers pay the ultimate price!" - UT Announcer

    Comment


      #3
      I don't know about using Jude Law as inspiration. I think a younger version of Ben Kingsley in Ender's Game would better fit Gooba's concept.

      Attached Files
      Last edited by Zargøthrax; 08-11-2015, 01:23 PM.

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        #4
        I kinda like the direction of UT2k4 and it might work here too if you want deriviate slightly bit (I think some deriviation is good so not all looks like traditional humans with various armors or cosmetics on them), the guy itself looked fairly small (do not read as in skinny but proportionally versus his armor) in UT2k4 and the armor was almost laughably large. Just saying, it might work here too to create slight variety and let the armor make the guy as large as other models meanwhile the guy itself is more chubby n short but the armor takes it to similar size as other guys (for that hitbox consistency).
        Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 08-11-2015, 02:02 PM.

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          #5
          Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
          I kinda like the direction of UT2k4 and it might work here too if you want deriviate slightly bit (I think some deriviation is good so not all looks like traditional humans with various armors or cosmetics on them), the guy itself looked fairly small (do not read as in skinny but proportionally versus his armor) in UT2k4 and the armor was almost laughably large. Just saying, it might work here too to create slight variety and let the armor make the guy as large as other models meanwhile the guy itself is more chubby n short but the armor takes it to similar size as other guys (for that hitbox consistency).
          They're geneboosted superhumans, just sayin'. Perhaps we can let MonsOlympus work out this concept and just give him pointers on how he can beter follow said concept.
          Last edited by Zargøthrax; 08-12-2015, 05:44 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by DutchHollander View Post
            They're geneboosted superhumans, just sayin'. Perhaps we can let Aberiu work out this concept and just give him pointers on how he can beter follow said concept.
            Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out my early concerns (which could have been done in other threads too) regarding character development of UT4 of it copying UT99 style, ie. everyone has that exact same profile and therefore the various teams felt lesser authentic (as in the same person but just a reskin ). UT2k4 had the greatest variety and it felt therefore more interesting to see more varied characters running around and not everyone are look-alikes in the shape/form. If you just look at the Gooba concept you can tell compared to his UT2k4 form has greatly been "normalized" towards fitting the other human teams profile-wise.

            But yea let's first see where this concept is heading, too early to start talking.
            Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 08-11-2015, 03:26 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by DutchHollander View Post
              I don't know about using Jude Law as inspiration. I think a younger version of Ben Kingsley in Ender's Game would better fit Gooba's concept.
              Im not using Jude Law overall just what he looks like specifically in the left side of the picture I provided, I like how he has bags under his eyes and looks rough and imperfect, he also has the right round head and facial structure and an extremely close hair style to match. Im not going to be sculpting for awhile if at all so dont worry too much about the character ending up looking like anyone famous, pretty sure thats actually against the law (no pun intended) unless we get permission I must admit I do like the tribal tatoos but Im not sure if it would fit with the concepts, I could certainly try it for a prisoner variant, thats my main thinking here is to start with the basic model, share the max/fbx files with everyone and then build my version of Gorge up ontop. This means we could end up with quite a few variants on the basic orange jumpsuit, grey jumpsuit, no shirt, tats etc, I really want to explore variants because I kind of feel Epic are being alittle too strict and are trying to design unique models when 1 generic with different heads and attachments could essentially do the same job, its important to get these types of systems atleast tested before full production kicks in or it'll mean hell later. Im already seeing abit of that with the weapon skins so I just hope I'll be able to get weapon skin cosmetics in there and Epic wont stop it because they went too far too fast.

              Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
              Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out my early concerns (which could have been done in other threads too) regarding character development of UT4 of it copying UT99 style, ie. everyone has that exact same profile and therefore the various teams felt lesser authentic (as in the same person but just a reskin ). UT2k4 had the greatest variety and it felt therefore more interesting to see more varied characters running around and not everyone are look-alikes in the shape/form. If you just look at the Gooba concept you can tell compared to his UT2k4 form has greatly been "normalized" towards fitting the other human teams profile-wise.

              But yea let's first see where this concept is heading, too early to start talking.
              I certainly know where youre coming from and making the character smaller to accentuate the armour is one idea for sure but I think one of the big things about 2k3 in particular people didnt like was the scaling and that was partly to do with the characters. As you said Gorge looked kinda like a small fat baby in the huge power armour and thats what I wanted to avoid, that if I were to make the armour bigger I would much prefer to add a heavy class to the game like UC2 that way I can really have a geneboosted human in power armour. Obviously from a gameplay perspective thats not a popular choice amongst the more die hard UT players, but when I say that they want the uniformity to the point all characters look the same (force model etc) so in actuality modelling this character is only for a subset of the larger community.

              The power armour/exo suit, will be larger than the default UT4 characters and I had considered keeping Gorge as a fatty but it makes sense to me that he be bigger and muscly and actually gives me a chance to approach both Unreal and UT in that Unreals main character was a prisoner and UT had the Raw Steel which were muscle guys. I know people have a love for the UC games, myself included but what Im trying to do here is not stick too closely to any of the previous games, I want to create something fresh and I think with a mixture of the concepts I can do just that, Goobas attention to detail, JFFs more bulky exosuit and prison coveralls, Aberius awesome paint job.

              See what we are doing here isnt porting any previous UT game so I would like to say that I will not be straight porting anything, this is a new game and Im taking a shot at this without any preconceived notions. Im not sure if the character will end up anything like Goobas concept as some people have already expressed concerned with the obvious Elysium styling so I was going to add alittle bit more to it myself but I know full well I wont please everyone. Best I can do is try to keep within the theme Epic is trying to portray and hopefully carving out alittle more details of technology and armour in this UT universe (whatever the year the game might be set in), I think people are generally happy Gorge seems older now than he did previously and it looks good next to the Malcolm concepts so thats an important thing to consider as next to Xan Gorge is Malcolms worst enemy.

              Another thing to consider is Axon Juggernaut armour can also help set a theme for vehicles and Xan, if Xan is still to have the Axon power armour. I dont want to get too far ahead of myself conceptually though, my goal is firstly finishing a male prisoner model to share with the community so we have a solid polymodel for reuse that has a reasonable tri count and is all skinned and scaled to the rig. I may even borrow from the female prisoner concept Gooba did to bring them both inline, perhaps shaping things up for people to come in take the models and turn em into punks (2k4 style)
              Last edited by MonsOlympus; 08-12-2015, 05:09 AM.
              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

              Comment


                #8
                Yea I know exactly where you are coming from, I just felt like pointing out for the sake of brainstorming questions like is the UT99 path really the best way to go with unified looking character profiles or not which strongly seems to be the case so far? This not because I have something against UT99 or anything, it just needs to be discussed.

                From the GOOD arguments why to do that like you pointed out is the competitive community will favor that to normalize hitbox to feel the same for every character. In UT3 especially the Krall species were quite famous for having especially the headshot hitbox rather confusingly visualized towards his actual position of the head (since his head was more lower and forward pinpointed).

                On the other hand you make less visually varied characters so that all characters starts looking/feeling the same which could be potentially have lower appeal towards the less competitive-minded crowd. You know how much the average joe cares about the graphics/design aspect these days to the point even great game mechanics featured kickstarter games can be heavily critized since it doesn't look like GTA or Battlefield or whatever despite it plays good.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                  I think with a mixture of the concepts I can do just that, Goobas attention to detail, JFFs more bulky exosuit and prison coveralls, Aberius awesome paint job.
                  This is pretty much it. The prison coveralls deviates from the naked or skin tight vest upper torso + pants that we've been seeing so far among human characters. Then Gooba has a great head and shoulder area going. JFF's exosuit has the relative size and more armour on the legs, which is welcome for a Juggernaut. I like Aberiu's chest piece and belly vest plates. Each brings something great to the table. Then you'll add your personal touch to it. When you reach that compromise and middle ground, it'll be really good.


                  This game seems to favour profile uniformity to the naked human shape, I don't know if that has something to do with the body cosmetic system later on in addition to competitive hitbox reasons. Maybe it's just a part of this game's visual style, similar to UT99 in that particular sense.
                  Character Sketch

                  Former IGN: Omega Lord

                  "Well fans here we are for another edition of the bloodiest sport in the Galaxy. A Tournament where the winners become gods and the losers pay the ultimate price!" - UT Announcer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    What about making the juggernaut 'suit' as a cosmetic set? You wouldn't need to model the character, and there's more versatility in getting a cosmetic item added rather than a base character.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
                      What about making the juggernaut 'suit' as a cosmetic set? You wouldn't need to model the character, and there's more versatility in getting a cosmetic item added rather than a base character.
                      Well thats kind of what Im going for perhaps even pieces of the suit being optional/adjustable, as you know Gorge is just one of the Juggernauts and I do like Arclites individuality in comparison especially in UC2. Basically I want people to be able to play as a basic prisoner Unreal style if they wish but if they want to they could be wearing the full armour, I really dont see much point in locking people down to a single mesh, making head/skin variants is as easy as ever because material layers solve some of the bigger issues from UT3s character material system its still not perfect but its a solid improvement.

                      Basically we could have the exo suit as a skeletal mesh component which is skinned to the same rig the normal character uses so when you attach it, it can all link up fine, it does add some extra overhead but its quite minimal in the scheme of things. It would have to be added into the character blueprint though, any major cosmetics would be, they dont necessarily need to be added to the game code for testing thats one of the good things about BPs is you can see the asset right there on the component and its immediately updated. Anyways getting alittle bit offtopic, about to do some more work on the base mesh
                      Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Okay so Ive been tidying up the poly flow, its certainly getting alot neater and Ive saved a heap of tris so far but theres more to go. I want to cut down the basic model as much as possible whilst still retaining the overall shape so its nice and easy to sub-divide and sculpt ontop of.

                        This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                        As you can see the uniformity of the polys on the body is working really well, there are a few tris still floating about causing pinching on the subd model. The head certainly doesnt have enough polys yet as it needs to be brought up inline with the cut down body which Im still working on. The hands need to come down abit and so do the arms, the idea is to try and make the polys as close to the same size across the entire mesh so we get a nice even sub-division.

                        This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                        This is what I would aim for with a detailed hand, the mesh itself only needs to be the very basic form and later sculpting can add plenty of details. I find working on higher polygon models too early can be severely detrimental to the entire process causing development times to really bloat out especially if you just want to mess with the overall forms of a character like muscles, ligaments and fat.

                        This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                        As you can see not alot is lost in the final stages when comparing these lower poly hands to the ones I have currently.
                        Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ive lowered the poly count as much as I could and I feel I reached a good compromise between details and polygons, I really didnt want to make it too high polygon up front because I might need to change the character to fit the exo-suit or vice versa and alot of polygons can really make that problematic. With a plain character with clothing you could dive into a sculpt and worry about topology later but since this has parts attached to the larger forms Im concentrating alot more on those before detailing happens.

                          This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                          I moved on from the topology of the base character for alittle bit to explore some of the details of the exo-suit and to just get a feel for how it'll fit on the character before I really settle on a final form for the guy. Im feeling so far the character might not be skinny enough, that I need to work on the waist area so I will have a look at that, Im happy with how Im progressing even though its still quite low poly and ugly.

                          This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                          Im quite pleased with how its coming and my guesstimates were okay but even for the lower poly Im looking at maybe 15-20k polys because of the exoskeleton, I dont want to be completely low poly so it will certainly get higher with the turbosmoothed at 1 iteration coming it 31k currently and its no where near detail complete just for the larger details let alone the smaller material details for normals.

                          This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                          The back of the model is interesting as Gooba didnt approach that in the initial concept, I have done a fair bit of research on exo-suits and I realized there is no perfect solution for the shoulders just yet, legs and arms seem to follow a fairly simple rotational joint but there is alot of twisting and turning to consider. I dont want to make the animators life too difficult by handing over a completely impossible model to rig, I am feeling as though the exo might need a few of its own bones but hopefully, if I design it right, it might just attach to the player rig as a skeletal mesh. Im really not sure on the technical implications just yet but if need be I can always hard attach it to the model and swap out larger pieces.

                          This exercise has really got me thinking about modularity and Epics concepts on Flickr this week has made me think about alternates and what I can do there, especially what troubles I may face if the attachment system doesnt support my requirements which might be more extensive than Epics models.

                          To list off a few ideas for cosmetics:
                          • Bandages
                          • Shock collar
                          • Simon Phoenix Head (alternate body skin)
                          • Half/Full Coveralls (may cover exo or exo may rip through)
                          • Different colour Coveralls (Orange, Faded Grey/Green - more traditional Gorge)
                          • Arclite styled Exo parts (Bandoliers)
                          • Removable Shoulder Pads
                          • Gorge Welding Goggles (UC2)
                          • Exo Backpack
                          • Cybernetic Arm/Exo Powerfist
                          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            It's very interesting to follow your dev

                            Dunno if it can help but I've made a bit of research to help you figure out how the back could be made. I thought of the movie Elysium which have awesome exo suit
                            Stevie's corner
                            Maps : DM-Coda, DM-Chroma FPS, DM-Chroma, DM-Dakylian, DM-Elik, DM-Akar, DM-Aryth, DM-Aly, CTF-Infiltrate, DM-Delta
                            Links : UE4 links (guide, tut), UE4 resources, Tools and resources

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Stevelois View Post
                              It's very interesting to follow your dev
                              Thanks, Im trying to share as much as I can without posting up every poly I put on the character

                              This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                              Taking a step back to look at overall proportions, Im not sure if the scaling is correct for these characters since they are all skinned to rigs and that determines their size rather than the base mesh so I was modelling ontop of the skeleton but I may scale the character up since 3dsmax has issues if the scale is too small (which the rig is when exported). I think overall the UT2003 and UT4 characters are similar so Im going to make my guy abit smaller to match those, the UC2 character was largely a guess based on the difference between the medium and heavy characters.
                              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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