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    No imagine this Titan surprises the player by doing a small sprint by running with the help of his long fore arms. Something like a silverback would do to attack you ...because you came to close to it's pack.
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      Oh wow, so people already went so far with this?

      To be honest, I am not a fan of the classic Krall design. In UT3 they created something that wasn't as much humanoid and I liked that.

      Anyways, when I finish my minigun, I think I'll start work on one of these. Probably the gasbag. It could use a full re-design, like new attacks as well. I was thinking it could grab you, fly up in the air and inflate itself more and more until it explodes along with you.

      That being said, most monsters could use a new, more potent attack then what they have. Scaling HP is a bad way to add difficulty in 16+ player coop modes. Most of the monsters here are helpless against the players, even in numbers. The AI is good at dodging shots, yes, but they can barely hurt the player with what they have. They are just punching bags. That's why DestinationMonsterHunt.de randomly replaced most monsters' projectile attacks. Some monster have even redeemer missiles and it's still not enough, because those get just shot.

      Also most monsters are either melee, or just shoot/throw stuff at you. Most of the time you just kept backpedaling against melee monsters. Let's add a little bit variety to that. E.g.
      - The the Manta in particular could be some sort of stealthy monster (with invisibility among other things) that sneaks up on you and then strikes with a combo attack.
      - The Brutes could have a smashing attack. Make a long jump towarrds you and stomp you into the ground.
      - Skaarj could make some sort of attack WHILE they are dodging. Their spinning claw attack could have a larger aoe as well.
      - The Mercenaries could really use a better machine gun. They just spray without hitting anything, unless they use the rockets. Why not give them a Trident Rocket launcher and let them load multiple shots? Their invulnerability shields could also detonate when they expire (much like the techarmor in Mass Effect)
      - The shields of the skaarj troopers/officers/snipers could reflect energy projectiles.
      - The Flys could be a lot faster, but make jaggy movement instead (just like flies) so that they are much harder to hit. Their bites would still be weak though.
      - The Puppaes could attach themselves to other players and keep biting! Other would have to to shoot you to get him off. OR you could blast yourself with a rocket or something. There could be some item to counter this (e.g. electric armor, which zaps enemies when they touch you)
      - Spinners are fine I think. Along with Puppaes they are supposed to be cannon fodder anyways. In large groups they can still become a problem with their spits.
      - Gasbags as mentioned above could have that suicide attack.
      - Sliths could have an alternate attack, where they throw a larger blob of acid at you that splashes and cover a large area that does continuous damage.
      - Warlords could stop and move their wings in a way so that they pull in close all the players in the area. At the end they launch a nuke below themselves on the players (I mean those missiles are shot easily anyways). They could also shoot 3-5 missiles at once with every regular shot.
      - Squids could be much bigger and actually behave like a squids - as in, grab players with their tentacles and squees them, smash them against the ground or against each other.
      - Devilfish are always shot from outside the water, so at least lets make them deadly in the water. Give them extra speed and change their AI so that they attack like wolves - circling fast around the player, dodging shots until they turn directly against him and go for the bite, very fast. Ideally this should be the point where the player also delivers the killing blow with a flak or something.

      That's it, I'm fresh out

      EDIT:
      - Titans grabbing invisible stone and then throwing them at the player is getting really old, I think. Since you're creating a Stone Titan anyways, why not have him throw his own big-*** rock-ish scales (or the huge spikes coming out of his vertebrae), which he then regrows really fast? Anyways, considering he can throw rocks only at 1 player at a time, he would still be just a large punching bag, rather than an actual threat. He could use some sort of AOE attack. OOH OOH, how about other monsters (mostly skaarj) mounting him and riding on him!!! He could also throw them at you sometimes! Put a bunch of sniper on top of him! OH MY GOD, it could have a mobile gun nest on his back, where like 5 enemies fit! YES, THIS IS PERFECT!
      - Queen laying eggs from which smaller versions of random Skaarj type monsters (slith, skaarj, warlord, puppae, tentacle) pop out would be the coolest thing, I would say. Of course the smaller ones would be weaker than the real deal, but at least would keep a large number of players occupied if she lays like 50+ eggs at once. A single queen was often the boss on most MonsterHunt maps and even if the projectiles were changed to rockets, she couldn't fight more then 2-3 players at a time. I'd suggest making the volley of projectiles horizontal instead of vertical as well.

      Ok now I'm really all out of ideas, have fun ya'll.
      Last edited by InVader; 08-07-2016, 06:36 AM.
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        Woooow, slow down there !

        I think that it will be better to start with the basic iterations we had in the previous invasion, so we can have a stable and proper base. Once done, maybe we could think of different new abilities and variety (or sub-species) of monsters. Plus if you already start with new things, I think most of the nostalgic people around here (like me) will be a little disappointed.

        We still don't even know what model to give to some of the monsters (Gasbag/gasbug still at the stage of concept).

        I like the Krall model created here. I never really liked the UT3 models (didn't I already discussed with you about this point in another thread ?).

        Comment


          Hey InVader!

          It would be awesome for you to take a stab at some monsters! I did a few concepts of the Gasbag, along with Sly and PaperCoffee as well. Lots of conceptual paths to choose from!

          I like your idea about allowing enemies to have context-sensitive and unique attacks. The art has evolved, the game has evolved, lets have the AI evolve as well!


          I finished(?) up the Titan skin. Just need to get some eyes on him.

          This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

          Two Titans? I'll pass!

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            Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
            I finished(?) up the Titan skin. Just need to get some eyes on him.
            Impressive ! And look at dat booty !
            Do you have already an idea of what kind of eyes you'll give him ?
            Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
            Two Titans? I'll pass!
            Not me ! Bring it on !

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              Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
              Impressive ! And look at dat booty !
              Do you have already an idea of what kind of eyes you'll give him ?

              Not me ! Bring it on !
              Haha! No, not yet. I have yet to think about that. If you want, you can post some images (even just google image results) of the type of eyes you would want to see! I can try and make a couple different types for the model.

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                Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
                Woooow, slow down there !

                I think that it will be better to start with the basic iterations we had in the previous invasion, so we can have a stable and proper base. Once done, maybe we could think of different new abilities and variety (or sub-species) of monsters. Plus if you already start with new things, I think most of the nostalgic people around here (like me) will be a little disappointed.

                We still don't even know what model to give to some of the monsters (Gasbag/gasbug still at the stage of concept).

                I like the Krall model created here. I never really liked the UT3 models (didn't I already discussed with you about this point in another thread ?).
                I don't know... you might have. I don't think it was me, because I didn't look up the Invasion/MonsterHunt on the forums seriously up until now. All I'm saying is the old Kralls (especially the pale ones with blue stripes on their backs) looked like albino bananas

                Anyways, deciding the functions of the monsters early might be good idea, because that lays down some basic guidelines for your design.
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                  InVader:
                  I think your ideas are pretty cool! I mean new Invasion definitely needs something new IMHO.

                  Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
                  Haha! No, not yet. I have yet to think about that. If you want, you can post some images (even just google image results) of the type of eyes you would want to see! I can try and make a couple different types for the model.
                  Paul, my 2 cents on Titan's eyes. Firstly I thought dragon/reptile ones will work, but after seeing pictures of this I've changed my mind. Maybe classical Godzilla eyes would go?


                  p.s. you guys are doing really cool things in here!
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by exo7341; 01-19-2016, 08:56 AM.
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                    Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
                    Haha! No, not yet. I have yet to think about that. If you want, you can post some images (even just google image results) of the type of eyes you would want to see! I can try and make a couple different types for the model.
                    Right now I don't have a precise idea, might be good to try multiple experimentations on it.
                    Let's try something crazy ! Take a reptile or cat eye but turn it like 90°, with the pupil placed horizontally instead of vertically.

                    Originally posted by InVader View Post
                    I don't know... you might have. I don't think it was me, because I didn't look up the Invasion/MonsterHunt on the forums seriously up until now. All I'm saying is the old Kralls (especially the pale ones with blue stripes on their backs) looked like albino bananas

                    Anyways, deciding the functions of the monsters early might be good idea, because that lays down some basic guidelines for your design.
                    Well I mean I replied at one of your post on the UT lore development thread, and already gave my opinion on the Krall model on UT3.

                    I agree that the old model from the original Unreal is really outdated and doesn't give as much feelings as before. Yet I don't like the direction they choosed with them in UT3. I would like to get back a more stand up and fierce posture rather than the ugly mindless hunchback we got in UT3. It's just a personnal opinion though.

                    Well I want that we first get a solid and... how can I call that... "modular/flexible" base by doing something as close as possible to the original invasion, and be sure everything already work with that, so then we can expend with a ****tons of crazy ideas like new monsters, abilities, powers, stats or whatever can come from the demented minds of this community !

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                      Some pretty eyes
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                        Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
                        I agree that the old model from the original Unreal is really outdated and doesn't give as much feelings as before. Yet I don't like the direction they choosed with them in UT3. I would like to get back a more stand up and fierce posture rather than the ugly mindless hunchback we got in UT3. It's just a personnal opinion though.

                        Well I want that we first get a solid and... how can I call that... "modular/flexible" base by doing something as close as possible to the original invasion, and be sure everything already work with that, so then we can expend with a ****tons of crazy ideas like new monsters, abilities, powers, stats or whatever can come from the demented minds of this community !
                        The reason I liked the design in UT3, because it look like a savage predator. If we ever implement the stealthy AI mechanics for the Krall, the UT3 design would be very much fitting fo rit. It looks exactly like something that waits patiently in the shadows for you to turn your back on him. It looked like THE Jumpscaremonster to snap your neck with it's giant mouth.

                        Having them as frontline soldier could work as well I guess, considering they are slaves to the skaarj/necris (wth, lore pls). The Skaarj/Skaarj Lords could take on the stealthy function then. With their claw attacks they are already good single-target assassins, so adding the extra assassination animation and the invisibility should be less work, I guess.
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                          Originally posted by InVader View Post
                          The reason I liked the design in UT3, because it look like a savage predator. If we ever implement the stealthy AI mechanics for the Krall, the UT3 design would be very much fitting fo rit. It looks exactly like something that waits patiently in the shadows for you to turn your back on him. It looked like THE Jumpscaremonster to snap your neck with it's giant mouth.

                          Having them as frontline soldier could work as well I guess, considering they are slaves to the skaarj/necris (wth, lore pls). The Skaarj/Skaarj Lords could take on the stealthy function then. With their claw attacks they are already good single-target assassins, so adding the extra assassination animation and the invisibility should be less work, I guess.
                          Weird... I never got this feeling. When I see them I rather think of it as an equivalent of the Orks : dumb, unorgagnized, the kind of thing that is only good when launched as frontline to wreak havoc.
                          On the Unreal model however I always saw them as some real soldier. Not as efficient as the Skaarj, but they proved their real worthiness as an adequate subtitute army. They know how to use weapons or tools, they're capable to form real squads, they only lacked the necessary advancement in technology that the Skaarj possessed.

                          I think that will be a recurent problem... we both have a preference for one or the other model (which are clearly different enough that we could make two different races), and I'm probably sure other people will get the same reaction... So how will we solve it ? Start from scrap again and completely forget about the previous models ? Or keep the two and find some magic trick that happened that created both ? Or... or... or what ?
                          Finding a common ground would be good, but I honestly think that there will always be a dissension on it.

                          Well, we might have hours and hours of discussions and arguments to do about it !

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                            Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
                            I think that will be a recurent problem... we both have a preference for one or the other model (which are clearly different enough that we could make two different races), and I'm probably sure other people will get the same reaction... So how will we solve it ? Start from scrap again and completely forget about the previous models ? Or keep the two and find some magic trick that happened that created both ? Or... or... or what ?
                            Finding a common ground would be good, but I honestly think that there will always be a dissension on it.
                            Tbh, I'd just go with a completely new 3rd design, which tries not to take traits from any of the previous designs.

                            Except maybe the long ears. We can a have monstrous elves in the game, lel.
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                              Maybe it's just me, but I think the UT3 Krall are more like Skaarj than the UT4 Skaarj. They're big, agile, green and good with their hands. Not much like the old pale pushovers that were in Unreal.

                              Originally posted by InVader View Post
                              That's why DestinationMonsterHunt.de randomly replaced most monsters' projectile attacks. Some monster have even redeemer missiles and it's still not enough, because those get just shot.
                              I'm guessing it's an RPG server, because that seems pretty ridiculous from the perspective of default Invasion.

                              RPG is less than ideal because power creep eventually means high level players lose any sense of challenge, or monsters have to grow in power and leave lower level players impotent. While you can focus on making the monsters grow in mechanics rather than power, you ultimately still have to deal with the power creep problem. Still, it might be fun to ponder how monsters can increase their difficulty through additional mechanics, as well as power. (I.e. Fire slith.)

                              What I particularly like about having multiple monsters is that you can emphasize how combinations of monsters escalate the threat. E.g. You might fight a titan from a tight spot it can't enter, but smaller more aggressive monsters can chase you out. Or you can effectively dodge a certain monster's attacks through repetitive motion, but a small pest can interrupt your dance and cause you to fumble. Thus, each monster may be simple and helpless on its own, but together they can pose a relatively unique fight because there's no optimal way to fight all of them at once. Especially if they had the differences you outlined in your post. (By default, many of the Unreal monsters are based on each other and aren't that varied in combat.)

                              RPG ruins that when you become strong enough to ignore smaller enemies.

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                                Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
                                Maybe it's just me, but I think the UT3 Krall are more like Skaarj than the UT4 Skaarj. They're big, agile, green and good with their hands. Not much like the old pale pushovers that were in Unreal.
                                Wait what ? Green ?! I see them as grey !

                                I agree that the Skaarj in UT4 isn't totally what we might have expected for them initially (same for the Necris, but I won't launch another debate here), but I disagree with you about the Krall being closer... just look at their stance and how they walk, they're extremely beastly, where the Skaarj were more akin to a Predator. Swift, capable, efficient and extremely deadly.
                                Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
                                I'm guessing it's an RPG server, because that seems pretty ridiculous from the perspective of default Invasion.

                                RPG is less than ideal because power creep eventually means high level players lose any sense of challenge, or monsters have to grow in power and leave lower level players impotent. While you can focus on making the monsters grow in mechanics rather than power, you ultimately still have to deal with the power creep problem. Still, it might be fun to ponder how monsters can increase their difficulty through additional mechanics, as well as power. (I.e. Fire slith.)

                                What I particularly like about having multiple monsters is that you can emphasize how combinations of monsters escalate the threat. E.g. You might fight a titan from a tight spot it can't enter, but smaller more aggressive monsters can chase you out. Or you can effectively dodge a certain monster's attacks through repetitive motion, but a small pest can interrupt your dance and cause you to fumble. Thus, each monster may be simple and helpless on its own, but together they can pose a relatively unique fight because there's no optimal way to fight all of them at once. Especially if they had the differences you outlined in your post. (By default, many of the Unreal monsters are based on each other and aren't that varied in combat.)

                                RPG ruins that when you become strong enough to ignore smaller enemies.
                                I can't recall what was exactly on the RPG mod (played only a few times, was a newby and seriously that wasn't fun to just come and see I wasn't able to do anything...), but I suggest that instead of just flat stats increase, each "level up" gives you points to spend in abilities, with different roles possible. A few quick exemple :
                                -The support, with a link and a bio. It plays mainly as a healer, a buffer, or debuffer depending which tree you go on. You can go on the buffer tree and give things like shields, increased RoF for a short period or stuff like that, or go for debuffer and get slows, or AoE controls, or damage vulnerability.
                                -The sharpshooter, equipped with a shock and a sniper. Focus mainly on killing the most dangerous threats, like Titans or Skaarj moma. Can go with things like giving vulnerability, making each succesfull shot on the same target more and more lethal, etc...
                                -The cleaner with a Minigun and a RL. The opposite of the Sharpshooter, focus on crowds of little mobs. Can apply a debuf that makes the monster do little explosion when killed (works only on target you actually hit directly with your weapon) won't do much to the largest freaks, but will help a lot against the rest.

                                So instead of relying on "moar and moar powah" to just kill monster with only more and more health and damage, you have to play as a team and use your abilities smartly to counter what the enemies will use and send against you.

                                Weird... looks a lot like a game I already played... With space ninja and stuff, and lots of grinding.

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