Unreal Universe Monsters! Lets make some art together!

[papercoffee]

[MENTION=34994]papercoffee[/MENTION], thanks, I was wondering how they would fire it when looking at it

Wonderful ...it looks practicable now. And I like the idea of the animated parts. I would suggest that they open the blades to shoot and some green flashes emit from the centre before they fire.
It would make more sense if the blades are "closed" for melee attacks to give the possibility to stab the opponent and to add some durability to the weapon... like a mace.

[Darkloser]

Hehe, totally managed to ignore that for some reason. So, I guess I'll have to think about how to make a tribalized version now. Maybe I'll try a clubbish end with that one too.

Sly-chan ignored me ! D:

I think the changing stance could open up a lot of possibilities, one being a simple stab attack with closed stance and firing, the other being the classical one handed beating with open blades for nasty cuts!

Though of course firing could be done with any stance I guess. I wouldn't see why not at least.
A closed one might be more handy for aiming though and maybe it could also be "forced" in an explanation that it might be necessary for concentration of the bolts, meaning that leaving it open will create more spread. But that's open for functionality discussion for later, I guess. The models are not even done and same with the programming.

Well I'm hesitating because of how the Skaarjs' Raziks work. When they want to fire they always deploy them. So I thought that they needed to open it so the blast is larger and stronger. Yet they can retract it so the impact is way more powerfull, akin to a mace (the one with fins).

But you're right, there's tons of possibilities with that, and no models yet. So we can keep it on hold gameplay wise until we have it.

PS:

I already see a parody of that staff with a trash collector Krall picking up old Skaarj newspapers with it.....
Must... resist... doing... that...

Interesting... but instead of newspapers I think it would be Nalis' body parts (**** messy Skaarjs !).

[InVader]

Nice staff. Would be suitable for a mage.
Personally I never really liked the staves on the Krall. The Krall overall looked way too primitive for me to believe that the skaarj actually used them as soldiers to conquer planets.

All this being said, if we could transform the Krall into a race with natural magical abilities... at least the higher ranking Kralls could be priests or mages! Buffing other kralls, healing them, hell even resurrect them! Just like the Fallen in Diablo! Aren't they the most fun enemies to kill? Every now and then they could channel other Krall with a Berserk powerup. They would shoot much bigger projectiles, maybe even with aoe splash damage. Turn areas into hazardous lava pools. They could fire homing projectiles as well! Or place skull-traps! They could wall you in from 2-3 sides (like elites in diablo, although better movement mechanics would be required for this, so you have a viable means of getting out of the walls). Debuff you to turn your feet slippery as if you were walking on ice (ever played Nexuiz?).

The simple soldiers could use some extra attacks too. Like a whirlwind or a combo attack, or fire projectiles in 3-5 bursts. They could use phase walk (invulnerable but can't attack) to close distance with you.

C'mon, let's make this race fun! Please please please pwease pweese!

hmmm, I should find the old post where I listed a bunch of extra abilities for all monsters and add this to it.

EDIT: Eyyy, I found it. I'll save this in a .txt file somewhere

 

Spoiler

• The the Manta in particular could be some sort of stealthy monster (with invisibility among other things) that sneaks up on you and then strikes with a combo attack.
• The Brutes could have a smashing attack. Make a long jump towarrds you and stomp you into the ground.
• Skaarj could make some sort of attack WHILE they are dodging. Their spinning claw attack could have a larger aoe as well.
  • The shields of the skaarj troopers/officers/snipers could reflect energy projectiles.
  
  
• The Mercenaries could really use a better machine gun. They just spray without hitting anything, unless they use the rockets. Why not give them a Trident Rocket launcher and let them load multiple shots? Their invulnerability shields could also detonate when they expire (much like the techarmor in Mass Effect)
• The Flys could be a lot faster, but make jaggy movement instead (just like flies) so that they are much harder to hit. Their bites would still be weak though.
• The Puppaes could attach themselves to other players and keep biting! Other would have to to shoot you to get him off. OR you could blast yourself with a rocket or something. There could be some item to counter this (e.g. electric armor, which zaps enemies when they touch you)
• Spinners are fine I think. Along with Puppaes they are supposed to be cannon fodder anyways. In large groups they can still become a problem with their spits.
• Gasbags could have that suicide attack, where they grab you (or eat you) and fly up into the sky and inflate themselves until they explode.
• Sliths could have an alternate attack, where they throw a larger blob of acid at you that splashes and cover a large area that does continuous damage.
• Warlords could stop and move their wings in a way so that they pull in close all the players in the area. At the end they launch a nuke below themselves on the players (I mean those missiles are shot easily anyways). They could also shoot 3-5 missiles at once with every regular shot.
• Squids could be much bigger and actually behave like a squids - as in, grab players with their tentacles and squees them, smash them against the ground or against each other.
• Devilfish are always shot from outside the water, so at least lets make them deadly in the water. Give them extra speed and change their AI so that they attack like wolves - circling fast around the player, dodging shots until they turn directly against him and go for the bite, very fast. Ideally this should be the point where the player also delivers the killing blow with a flak or something.
• Titans grabbing invisible stone and then throwing them at the player is getting really old, I think. Since you're creating a Stone Titan anyways, why not have him throw his own big-*** rock-ish scales (or the huge spikes coming out of his vertebrae), which he then regrows really fast? Anyways, considering he can throw rocks only at 1 player at a time, he would still be just a large punching bag, rather than an actual threat. He could use some sort of AOE attack. OOH OOH, how about other monsters (mostly skaarj) mounting him and riding on him!!! He could also throw them at you sometimes! Put a bunch of sniper on top of him! OH MY GOD, it could have a mobile gun nest on his back, where like 5 enemies fit! YES, THIS IS PERFECT!
• Queen laying eggs from which smaller versions of random Skaarj type monsters (slith, skaarj, warlord, puppae, tentacle) pop out would be the coolest thing, I would say. Of course the smaller ones would be weaker than the real deal, but at least would keep a large number of players occupied if she lays like 50+ eggs at once. A single queen was often the boss on most MonsterHunt maps and even if the projectiles were changed to rockets, she couldn't fight more then 2-3 players at a time. I'd suggest making the volley of projectiles horizontal instead of vertical as well.
• Kralls could be a race with natural magical abilities. The higher ranking Kralls could be priests or mages! Buffing other kralls, healing them, hell even resurrect them! Just like the Fallen in Diablo! Every now and then they could channel other Krall with a Berserk powerup. They would shoot much bigger projectiles, maybe even with aoe splash damage. Turn areas into hazardous lava pools. They could fire homing projectiles as well! Or place skull-traps! They could wall you in from 2-3 sides (like elites in diablo, although better movement mechanics would be required for this, so you have a viable means of getting out of the walls). Debuff you to turn your feet slippery as if you were walking on ice (ever played Nexuiz?).
  • The simple soldiers could use some extra attacks too. Like a whirlwind or a combo attack, or fire projectiles in 3-5 bursts. They could use phase walk (invulnerable but can't attack) to close distance with you.

[rapfamily4]

I love those gameplay mechanics! Nice idea!

[Hunterman]

Nice staff. Would be suitable for a mage.
Personally I never really liked the staves on the Krall. The Krall overall looked way too primitive for me to believe that the skaarj actually used them as soldiers to conquer planets.

All this being said, if we could transform the Krall into a race with natural magical abilities... at least the higher ranking Kralls could be priests or mages! Buffing other kralls, healing them, hell even resurrect them! Just like the Fallen in Diablo! Aren't they the most fun enemies to kill? Every now and then they could channel other Krall with a Berserk powerup. They would shoot much bigger projectiles, maybe even with aoe splash damage. Turn areas into hazardous lava pools. They could fire homing projectiles as well! Or place skull-traps! They could wall you in from 2-3 sides (like elites in diablo, although better movement mechanics would be required for this, so you have a viable means of getting out of the walls). Debuff you to turn your feet slippery as if you were walking on ice (ever played Nexuiz?).

The simple soldiers could use some extra attacks too. Like a whirlwind or a combo attack, or fire projectiles in 3-5 bursts. They could use phase walk (invulnerable but can't attack) to close distance with you.

C'mon, let's make this race fun! Please please please pwease pweese!

hmmm, I should find the old post where I listed a bunch of extra abilities for all monsters and add this to it.

EDIT: Eyyy, I found it. I'll save this in a .txt file somewhere

 

Spoiler

• The the Manta in particular could be some sort of stealthy monster (with invisibility among other things) that sneaks up on you and then strikes with a combo attack.
• The Brutes could have a smashing attack. Make a long jump towarrds you and stomp you into the ground.
• Skaarj could make some sort of attack WHILE they are dodging. Their spinning claw attack could have a larger aoe as well.
  • The shields of the skaarj troopers/officers/snipers could reflect energy projectiles.
  
  
• The Mercenaries could really use a better machine gun. They just spray without hitting anything, unless they use the rockets. Why not give them a Trident Rocket launcher and let them load multiple shots? Their invulnerability shields could also detonate when they expire (much like the techarmor in Mass Effect)
• The Flys could be a lot faster, but make jaggy movement instead (just like flies) so that they are much harder to hit. Their bites would still be weak though.
• The Puppaes could attach themselves to other players and keep biting! Other would have to to shoot you to get him off. OR you could blast yourself with a rocket or something. There could be some item to counter this (e.g. electric armor, which zaps enemies when they touch you)
• Spinners are fine I think. Along with Puppaes they are supposed to be cannon fodder anyways. In large groups they can still become a problem with their spits.
• Gasbags could have that suicide attack, where they grab you (or eat you) and fly up into the sky and inflate themselves until they explode.
• Sliths could have an alternate attack, where they throw a larger blob of acid at you that splashes and cover a large area that does continuous damage.
• Warlords could stop and move their wings in a way so that they pull in close all the players in the area. At the end they launch a nuke below themselves on the players (I mean those missiles are shot easily anyways). They could also shoot 3-5 missiles at once with every regular shot.
• Squids could be much bigger and actually behave like a squids - as in, grab players with their tentacles and squees them, smash them against the ground or against each other.
• Devilfish are always shot from outside the water, so at least lets make them deadly in the water. Give them extra speed and change their AI so that they attack like wolves - circling fast around the player, dodging shots until they turn directly against him and go for the bite, very fast. Ideally this should be the point where the player also delivers the killing blow with a flak or something.
• Titans grabbing invisible stone and then throwing them at the player is getting really old, I think. Since you're creating a Stone Titan anyways, why not have him throw his own big-*** rock-ish scales (or the huge spikes coming out of his vertebrae), which he then regrows really fast? Anyways, considering he can throw rocks only at 1 player at a time, he would still be just a large punching bag, rather than an actual threat. He could use some sort of AOE attack. OOH OOH, how about other monsters (mostly skaarj) mounting him and riding on him!!! He could also throw them at you sometimes! Put a bunch of sniper on top of him! OH MY GOD, it could have a mobile gun nest on his back, where like 5 enemies fit! YES, THIS IS PERFECT!
• Queen laying eggs from which smaller versions of random Skaarj type monsters (slith, skaarj, warlord, puppae, tentacle) pop out would be the coolest thing, I would say. Of course the smaller ones would be weaker than the real deal, but at least would keep a large number of players occupied if she lays like 50+ eggs at once. A single queen was often the boss on most MonsterHunt maps and even if the projectiles were changed to rockets, she couldn't fight more then 2-3 players at a time. I'd suggest making the volley of projectiles horizontal instead of vertical as well.
• Kralls could be a race with natural magical abilities. The higher ranking Kralls could be priests or mages! Buffing other kralls, healing them, hell even resurrect them! Just like the Fallen in Diablo! Every now and then they could channel other Krall with a Berserk powerup. They would shoot much bigger projectiles, maybe even with aoe splash damage. Turn areas into hazardous lava pools. They could fire homing projectiles as well! Or place skull-traps! They could wall you in from 2-3 sides (like elites in diablo, although better movement mechanics would be required for this, so you have a viable means of getting out of the walls). Debuff you to turn your feet slippery as if you were walking on ice (ever played Nexuiz?).
  • The simple soldiers could use some extra attacks too. Like a whirlwind or a combo attack, or fire projectiles in 3-5 bursts. They could use phase walk (invulnerable but can't attack) to close distance with you.

Hmm, it's alright but some of them are rather outlandish, Kralls are just expendable soldiers with energy staffs, maybe they can charge up the shot for a stronger blast.

[Darkloser]

Personally I don't like these ideas.

And that's the point of the Kralls, they are a primitive race (compared to the humans and Skaarj at least). But Skaarj care little for that, they're the superior race, and all should bow or be destroyed.
And they used them as soldiers because it's the only thing they could be good at.They're warlike and savage, so they're ill suited for a mining force (they lack the patience and discipline for that), but they're effective and cheap fighters. They also serves as wardens and enforcers amongst the Nalis.
So maybe the higher ranking trall (which probably are warlord or warchief), might have some special abilities, but not in the form of magic. Maybe they earned (or hoarded) more technology than their comrades. Especially knowing that they were sent by the Skaarj to explore the crashed ships in Unreal.

[Hunterman]

Personally I don't like these ideas.

And that's the point of the Kralls, they are a primitive race (compared to the humans and Skaarj at least). But Skaarj care little for that, they're the superior race, and all should bow or be destroyed.
And they used them as soldiers because it's the only thing they could be good at.They're warlike and savage, so they're ill suited for a mining force (they lack the patience and discipline for that), but they're effective and cheap fighters. They also serves as wardens and enforcers amongst the Nalis.
So maybe the higher ranking trall (which probably are warlord or warchief), might have some special abilities, but not in the form of magic. Maybe they earned (or hoarded) more technology than their comrades. Especially knowing that they were sent by the Skaarj to explore the crashed ships in Unreal.

I was thinking the same thing, those ideas just sound unnecessary and while cool on paper, is pretty **** frustrating to fight, plus all these complex mechanics for rather 'simple' enemies is unwarranted, more for building on what is there, perhaps the Krall Elite gets an energy staff that has a charge function similar to the Doom 4 Possessed Soldier.

[InVader]

Hmm, it's alright but some of them are rather outlandish, Kralls are just expendable soldiers with energy staffs, maybe they can charge up the shot for a stronger blast.

@Darkloser

The lore also says the skaarj recognized their combat skills, but I want to add this stuff purely becuase of gameplay reasons. Other than skaarj troopers, the monsters were already too easy to kill in Unreal. It was even easier in 16+ player coop MonsterHunt matches. The projectiles of most monsters were changed to something stronger in MonsterHunt maps (I'm not kidding, I saw instagib and sniper Tentacles too). Hell the server that's popular up to this day (destinationmonsterhunt.de) gives every monster a random projectile, so some skaarj actually shoot rockets or shock balls or ripper blades. Even the Queens. So yeah, I assure you, the extra difficulty is much more needed than you think.

Stronger they might be, at the end of the day you still just backpedal and keep shooting until they die. That's boring. HP and DMG scaling is also a terrible way to punch up difficulty. That's why I want to give them extra attacks/abilities. Considering the simple krall soldiers are supposed to be good at fighting, they could at least have extra attack or movement abilities, if not magical.

A lot of these magical abilities can easily be re-imagined in sci-fi variants though. E.g. lava pools would be bio goo pools. The walls would be energy walls. Channeling berserk power-up and the resurrection would be something like a stim-pack... I'd like to point out that lore-wise this sci-fi stuff does not necessarily go well with the primitive and shamanistic nature of the Krall though, that's why I proposed magic instead.

[Darkloser]

@Darkloser

The lore also says the skaarj recognized their combat skills, but I want to add this stuff purely becuase of gameplay reasons. Other than skaarj troopers, the monsters were already too easy to kill in Unreal. It was even easier in 16+ player coop MonsterHunt matches. The projectiles of most monsters were changed to something stronger in MonsterHunt maps (I kid you, I saw instagib and sniper Tentacles too). Hell the server that's popular up to this day (destinationmonsterhunt.de) gives every monster a random projectile, so some skaarj actually shoot rockets or shock balls or ripper blades. Even the Queens. So yeah, I assure you, the extra difficulty is much more needed than you think.

Stronger they might be, at the end of the day you still just backpedal and keep shooting until they die. That's boring. HP and DMG scaling is also a terrible way to punch up difficulty. That's why I want to give them extra attacks/abilities. Considering the simple krall soldiers are supposed to be good at fighting, they could at least have extra attack or movement abilities, if not magical.

A lot of these magical abilities can easily be re-imagined in sci-fi variants though. E.g. lava pools would be bio goo pools. The walls would be energy walls. Channeling berserk power-up and the resurrection would be something like a stim-pack... I'd like to point out that lore-wise this sci-fi stuff does not necessarily go well with the primitive and shamanistic nature of the Krall though, that's why I proposed magic instead.

I can understand the need for difficulty. In fact, I'm far from denying it, I would like it as well.

But I think there's better way to think about it than randomly suggesting stuff coming out of nowhere, like "SPACE MAGIC !" and all. I'm not trying to offense you in any way, I'm just fairly certain that you can find better than that.

To be honest I played (and still play) a lot of Warframe, and I totally agree that just adding more HP/damages isn't a solution. It simply makes things longer and even more boring. However placing random enemies without much thought about how it will impact the rest isn't a good idea ever (I find the Nullifier pretty absurd). So that's why I'm kind of shutting down your ideas here, because like you I want something good, something challenging, something we can all have fun with.

Also I'm a huge lore fan (I think it was pretty apparent so far ), so I might be a little annoying with that. But yeah there's clearly better ways you can explain new abilities while staying close to the original lore. This is why I suggested the "tech hoarding" idea.
And there's nothing Shamanistic or magic related with the Kralls. You should imagine them with only combat as a motto. The tech stuff is even explained in the lore. Plus if you take into account UT3 Kralls, you see that Epic clearly pushed the "vicious and savage" side rather than a shaman one. And they're capable to use any device you give them, should it be weapons or something else. I suppose that as long as they can fight and kill, they'll be contented.

Magic and shamanism is present in the game, but is associated with the Nalis. I think it's to add to the dualism beetwen the warmonger Skaarjs (and those affiliated with them) and the peaceful Nalis.

Actually I think they possibly can have some simple extra move, though it needs animations to represent them. For exemple a simple dodge, a roll maybe, or even trying to take a minimum of cover. But as we're still in the modelling phase it's hard to go further in this direction.

[InVader]

Also I'm a huge lore fan (I think it was pretty apparent so far ), so I might be a little annoying with that. But yeah there's clearly better ways you can explain new abilities while staying close to the original lore.

Yah, me too, it's just that I never found the Krall particularly interesting to begin with - visually or lore wise. The Skaarj in comparison are perfect. The Skaarj Lord is by far my favorite monster of all time. Supreme in visual design to anything else I've ever seen. They were also fast, highly aggressive, had interesting attacks (jump-dodge claw attack, whirlwind attack, baraka chop shop attack, ranged attack), they dodged a lot, were hard to hit and had by far the best and most tactical AI.

The Krall on the other hand looked like brown/white bananas with blue stripes on their back, which had very basic ranged attacks and tried to beat you with a club with simple swings, when they weren't chilling and playing with dice in groups. They barely even dodged. They were slow. They were primitive to the point where I wonder how were they even supposed to pose a challenge. UT3 at least made them look more savage and dangerous.

There's plenty of examples where primitive, savage creatures are dangerous even without augmentations or magic (Starship Trooper bugs, Xenomorphs...). Most of the time they are like hunters. Just gotta give them stronger attacks and good movement.

Look at what DooM did to the spider mastermind and the cyberdemon. Although they are bosses, they are the best boss fights I ever saw in first person shooters due to the sheer variety of attacks they have. Fights against them are not just backpedaling, nor brainless "keep strafing left to evade projectiles while shooting".

I'm fine with keeping the real special stuff for the Krall Elites and other higher ranking Krall, but the simple krall need additional attacks, even if they are just cannon fodder. Whirlwind attack with staff is plausible, I think. They could deflect shots with their staves. Do a charge or a combo attack. Or perhaps have a throw attack - they grab you and throw you in the middle of the mob. The energy bolts they shoot from the staves could have some properties too (maybe elemental?). Set you on fire/poison you, slow you down, knock back/up/pull in, pierce through players, homing projectile... I think the lore allows for a lot of room with what they can with the staff.
Each regualar krall could have a different colored staff and clothes/bodypaint to indicate what kind of attacks they have.

[Darkloser]

Yah, me too, it's just that I never found the Krall particularly interesting to begin with - visually or lore wise. The Skaarj in comparison are perfect. The Skaarj Lord is by far my favorite monster of all time. Supreme in visual design to anything else I've ever seen. They were also fast, highly aggressive, had interesting attacks (jump-dodge claw attack, whirlwind attack, baraka chop shop attack, ranged attack), they dodged a lot, were hard to hit and had by far the best and most tactical AI.

The Krall on the other hand looked like brown/white bananas with blue stripes on their back, which had very basic ranged attacks and tried to beat you with a club with simple swings, when they weren't chilling and playing with dice in groups. They barely even dodged. They were slow. They were primitive to the point where I wonder how were they even supposed to pose a challenge. UT3 at least made them look more savage and dangerous.

There's plenty of examples where primitive, savage creatures are dangerous even without augmentations or magic (Starship Trooper bugs, Xenomorphs...). Most of the time they are like hunters. Just gotta give them stronger attacks and good movement.

Look at what DooM did to the spider mastermind and the cyberdemon. Although they are bosses, they are the best boss fights I ever saw in first person shooters due to the sheer variety of attacks they have. Fights against them are not just backpedaling, nor brainless "keep strafing left to evade projectiles while shooting".

I'm fine with keeping the real special stuff for the Krall Elites and other higher ranking Krall, but the simple krall need additional attacks, even if they are just cannon fodder. Whirlwind attack with staff is plausible, I think. They could deflect shots with their staves. Do a charge or a combo attack. Or perhaps have a throw attack - they grab you and throw you in the middle of the mob. The energy bolts they shoot from the staves could have some properties too (maybe elemental?). Set you on fire/poison you, slow you down, knock back/up/pull in, pierce through players, homing projectile... I think the lore allows for a lot of room with what they can with the staff.
Each regualar krall could have a different colored staff and clothes/bodypaint to indicate what kind of attacks they have.

Keep in mind that when unreal came out, some things were still limited, including AI behaviors and the animations. Also, the Kralls served as middle ground enemies, mob fodder, that kind of stuff.

Now games have evolved and the possibilties are wider, but as I said most of them are tied to animation, and we're at this stade yet. But I expect to add a lot more moves to all monsters than what we had previously. For exemple I imagined the Titan throwing small rocks with only one hand (Quicker but less powerful attack) or grab a huge chunk of rock out of the ground with both his hands and hurling it in your face (Slower attack, but deals tremendous damages and can even knockback/stagger you ?). And this are just two exemples. There's a ton more possible that I would enjoy to see.
So yea I can imagine (ideally) Krall fighting a little more like a squad, trying to ambush you, take covers, dodge, roll, using ranged attack to keep you head low and advance, then beat you in melee, deals both quick and strong attacks, etc...

I like bananas...

Look at Andyn works, it's hinestly gorgeous isn't it ? And they don't look like bananas anymore ! And it's only the base model, we can still add some wonderful body paint, tatoos, clothes, pieces of armor, etc...

[AndyN]

Thanks for the concepts Sly, really nice.


About the krall himself, a new version, to the left, compared to the old one:

[Darkloser]

I personally prefer the beefier version, fit the Kralls warrior and brutish mind. The crest on the new model however seems pretty good, you should keep that.

[InVader]

I'm also in favor of the old, beefier arms. The legs are... well, still kinda weird, especially with the muscle removed from the lower part of the legs. They look like chicken legs now.

My suggestion would be to revert back to old version, but try making the size of the feet shorter/smaller and maybe play around with the overall length of the legs.

[HeisenbergTrip]

While I wait for Topogun Support to get back to me regarding the license issues I decided to remake an iconic scene from Unraeal that has something to do with the project!

mood