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    Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
    #robothighgap
    #driveabusthruthere
    Unreal Carnage.com UT4 Maps: DM-Maelstrom DM-SpaceNoxx

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      Hello all, I hope everybody had a happy new year! Thanks for all of the comments and crits. To those few that were concerned that you scared me off or hurt my feelings by your negative crits don't worry. It has nothing to do with that, it's simply a matter of what is the best use of my time. If I'm spending more time explaining my decisions than making them that is counter productive.

      Even more importantly, if we end up talking about doing things more than actually doing them that is extremely counter productive. I like making progress on things and I'd rather create than critique.

      I spent a huge amount of time interacting on the forums last year and was less productive than I wanted to be. This year I'm trying to balance things better and focus on getting more stuff in the game. I'll still share and contribute as much as possible but talking less and doing more is my priority.

      Thanks for your understanding.
      Sr. Mechanical Modeler, Epic Games
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        This I will watch closely, and make some drawings with those parameters from the first post. Happy new Year!
        My art work here at DeviantArt.

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          Originally posted by YemYam View Post
          Thanks for your understanding.
          Yeah..... makes sense. We really were baited in the beginning with "In the meantime please let us know what you think and if you have any ideas to share." But hey, it ain't your job to post in the forums and explain every little design decision to obsessive, opinionated, and stubborn nerds like us (or at least I am). That's just the nature of the beast, and a consequence of the holiday shut down.

          I think I speak for most of us when I say we're looking forward to more pics of sweet, sweet robots coming down the line.
          ChimmiChunga leads from the front, and DieHard UT holds the crown!!
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            I hope the Robots come for free in the Game

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              Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
              Everyone has their own idea of what UT should be, some of us are obviously more planted in UT being an extension of Unreal proper where others like UT99 as a stand alone title with only light ties to Unreal at best. Then you got your UC fans, Vehicle fans, UT has really grown into a universe so I hope Epic can pull off what Marvel and DC do with their comic multi-verses and get them all back on the same page. It'd great if Unreal started to spawn spinoffs again like it did with UT
              Well... there are two Unreal paths. U1 -> UT'99 -> UT2k4 (with some UT2k3 elements) is the classic one and UC1 (UT2k3) -> UC2 is Unreal Championship or what i like to call "Digital Extremes not getting the Unreal Universe". I could discuss why high tech egyptians don't fit into Unreal Universe in the form they presented, but pointing out that they added Raiden in it is enough.

              About multiverses... when someone does it and it's not part of the idea from the beggining then this is proof that someone sucks balls at designing and maintaining their universe so much that he has to use worst kind of cheats. And DC Universe is prime example of such incompetence in my opinion at least. UT has simmiliar problem with maintaining the universe, but it's not so huge so it's elements can be rearanged to make sense. Also there is other problem... with multiverse there is intercation between universes which means that suddenly people not accepting Nightmare team or Nakhti as their canon has to do that. Not mentioning gigantic plot holes it produces which can't be filled by someone who screwed up universe designing at the first place.

              ...sorry... Changed my mind... prime example of sucking balls at desiging and maintaining universes is post 2004 Blizzard. They screwed up Warcraft universe with WoW so badly that they reached dead end and had to use multiverse cheats in order to make relasing next expansions even possible. And they didn't learned their lessons since they did same exact **** with Starcraft universe to the point that oldschool fans are willing to accept as their canon conspiracy theory where all Starcraft2 story was a result of Jim Raynors delirium and actually never happened.

              Epic has the luck that UT never was story oriented, but still i wish to prevent repeating same errors Blizzard did. Unreal universe has huge potential and it would be pity if it was wasted.

              Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
              Im glad you can see the concept for what its worth, not everyone is a materials expert especially in 2d and you know whats important to get this concept to model. Once painted in PBR with yellow paint and metal scratches this would really pop out and be much more realistic than people realise. Its not "that" manga flavoured in all honesty, its much more western than the original with most of the magna style purely being nods to the original concept, I honestly think it has a nice industrial feel to it because of the colouring and the X pattern on the panels. It looks like it could actually take a rocket hit to the body.
              Yup. UT2k3 robots were anime by design but didn't had neede stylization. Aberius concept is kinda opposite. It is more realistic by design but remnants of original design and Aberius stroke is enough to give that anime impression.

              Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
              I agree in part but there were a few parts I liked from UT3, mainly that the robot parts didnt fit together so well and had baggy pants or guts for some unknown reason, or the flimsy mid-section. I dont think the approach on a whole is bad, its much the same as whats mentioned about Aberius concept, with the better materials in PBR the robots would look better just off the bat.
              UT3 robots were hard to read and they all kinda looked the same. There are some minor ideas you can borrow from it like robot with big belly, but it's not different from borrowing ideas from completely other game, movie or even semi random painting from devian art. You can take design elements but you can't take character or faction identity from there. In UT'99/UT2k3/UT2k4 you can actually do this. At least in my opinion.

              Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
              I like the Asian theme but it needs to be brought inline with the rest of UT, I like the whole high tech tokyo shopping mall kinda vibe Coret in UT3 had, perhaps not for that map but I think it works and is a great nod to Cyberpunk. Shangri-la had potential, it almost captured this dreamy otherworldly escapism that the original Unreal had but it felt dull in colours, it really needed to be more vivid like a lucid dream so I do think there is a place for the theme in the Unreal Universe it just needs to coalesce that the overall vision is the important one that other UTs have mainly neglected.
              Cyberpunk asian cities are ok in UT. They might need to be realligned a bit as UT'99 was "concrete cyberpunk" (or matte) and UT3 Coret was "unpainted metal cyberpunk" (or shiny) but UT2k4 already managed to fit both of those in one game. For Shangri-la... it would have work if it was more otherwordly. It lacked some crazy spin UT'99 space castles had. Shangr-la was just too realistic and could fit into other games while space castles are the domain of Unreal. I had simmiliar issue with official DM-Chill concept. From what i understand this is snowy castle with strong viking themes, statues, shields and carpets. While it is really nice i thing it lacks this otherworldy spin. It could fit in other viking themed game. I liked Magley concept where there was clear sky and some ancient rusty anti aircraft cannons. Clear sky makes it feel like north pole not just winter. Ancient alien anti aircraft cannons are good spin. Serenity and derelict are traits of UT'99 space castles. And while DM-Chill is not classic space castle it can has the simmiliar soul. And it still can be viking with statues, carpets and shields. Moreover it should. Derelict alien vikings castle with ancient anti air craft cannons? I think it fits Unreal universe ^_^.

              Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
              UC2 on the other hand since it was a heavy SP orientated game as well as MP had this flow through the environments, the high-tech Nakhti one being way better than the more traditional Egyptian maps in the original UC and UT2k3. I think the Egyptian theme has worked better for UT in the past than the Persian style of UT3, Sandstorm could have been a huge Pyramid that simply appears from the storm like a mirage. I like that the Nakhti city is kinda like this rich Oasis of culture where the outskirts are ruinous deserts, I really hope people explore the actual planets in Unreal instead of just making a cool map layout then throwing a theme at it, I like it when a level has an actual setting
              Egyptian theme is really weird case. It can fit what i imagine as Unreal but fact that Nakhti are humans and has drastically different technology which is on par with main humanity and skaarj empire is aganist previous world lore. If they were aliens with lower level tech it would fit.[/quote]

              Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
              And you made me go offtopic, how dare you....
              In case of art threads i go kinda offtopic all the time because while we work on design of one element we define art direction further. Also most of my crits are more about vibe, soul and identity rather than placing of one piston :P

              Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
              This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

              If you look at this compared to Aberius concept you can immediately see how much better theirs is, these robots had these odd wide stances but they did have the Liandri Hammers.
              It's closer to UT2k4 Corrupt team. In lore people who designed this robot wanted it to look great, not to be easy and to mass produce. The only thing what makes it different from The Corrupt is lack of retro stylization like art deco for example. UT2k3 robots were mean't to be industrial and suitable for mass production. They were part of the tournament because of their rougue AI while The Corrupt (ut2k4 one) was designed for the tournament (UT'99 warmachine were ambigous, but UT2k4 lore would suggest that they were robots from the uprising).

              Originally posted by YemYam View Post
              ...a matter of what is the best use of my time. If I'm spending more time explaining my decisions than making them that is counter productive.

              Even more importantly, if we end up talking about doing things more than actually doing them that is extremely counter productive. I like making progress on things and I'd rather create than critique.
              Well preproduction and desing is not counter productive. And it's not that time consuing if you let community do that for you instead of doing it yourself and then presenting to the community when it is finnished. I loved approach of relic at the beggining of development aka "We want to focus on X now, but we don't know how it will look yet. Please tell us how you would like it to look" but it was replaced with "Hi guys, we already figured out everything. You can give feedback but not evryone can be pleased and criticizing or arguing is couter productive". It cuts off community input and instead letting them give their ideas to build the concept, the same ideas are turned into the cirtique of the official concept. The same community energy is pulling you back instead of pushing you forward. At least it is my take on it...

              Originally posted by YemYam View Post
              I spent a huge amount of time interacting on the forums last year and was less productive than I wanted to be. This year I'm trying to balance things better and focus on getting more stuff in the game. I'll still share and contribute as much as possible but talking less and doing more is my priority.

              Thanks for your understanding.
              Personally i think that this forum needs high dev-communty interaction and you were really good at it
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                Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
                Egyptian theme is really weird case. It can fit what i imagine as Unreal but fact that Nakhti are humans and has drastically different technology which is on par with main humanity and skaarj empire is aganist previous world lore. If they were aliens with lower level tech it would fit.
                I disagree on that point. Nakhti could be humans with a different culture, like in reality. Same for asian theme or anything like that. Humanity have colonized a lot of different planets, maybe some of these colonies have also kept a strong culture depending of their leader (or other factors). So the Nakhti would be a sub-branches of the humans, which kept the theme and some traditions of ancient egypt. You can then imagine that their architectures follow a pattern similar to those of the "space castles" we had in UT99 : Take a pyramid, put some sci-fi lights and technology on it (something clearly visible but not too invasive), and hell maybe you can even put a sci-fi city as a background.
                I didn't liked the look of the maps in UC2 in general... I thought the egyptian maps in UT2k4 followed better that direction, with subtles bright lights hidden in the iconography, giving that alien or sci-fi vibe. The technology was too invasive in UC2 egyptian themed maps.

                So nakthi can posses the same level of technology as human if they're a sub-branches (dunno about skaarj, I think their level of technology is higher than that of humans) and it isn't against the lore.

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                  UC2 was developed by Epic, not DE...As a matter of fact, until UC2 all Unreal games (except Unreal 1's mission pack Return to Na Pali, and Unreal 2) were co-developed by Epic and DE.
                  The new UT is coming along nicely...
                  Maybe a new Unreal would be a good idea for Epic's next project? It's certainly somewhat overdue...

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                    We're kinda getting too much into offtopic. Moderator might need to do some post extraction to separate thread to keep this one clean.

                    @Darkloser
                    My main issue with Egyptians is that they don't look like different culture but completely other human civilisation which was separated for over a thousand years and developed completely different technology. I would have no problem with subtle accentuation, but UT2k3/UC2 egyptians are completely over the top and radically different in every possible aspect from main heavily corporation driven humanity. I would blame that for overall "overthetopness" of UT2k3 and UC2, but we don't have any other Egyptians presence in UT series. Venom team and one Domination map in UT'99 have egyptian theme, but it is not that present in players consciousness. I have few ideas how to tune down this faction but that would mean removing this SC2 Protoss vibe from them aka golden ornamental stuff and blue magic crystals. And that might be not what are fans of this faction expecting. From the other side Epic ignored fan expectations with Necris already, so should i bother about Egyptians?

                    @iLikeTheUDK
                    I could have been wrong but from what i heard long time ago UT2k3 was mainly made by DE while Epic was working on U2. Then UT2k4 was Epic fixing UT2k3 and making it more like UT'99. But that was just gossip i heard like 10 years ago :P
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                      Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
                      We're kinda getting too much into offtopic. Moderator might need to do some post extraction to separate thread to keep this one clean.

                      @Darkloser
                      My main issue with Egyptians is that they don't look like different culture but completely other human civilisation which was separated for over a thousand years and developed completely different technology. I would have no problem with subtle accentuation, but UT2k3/UC2 egyptians are completely over the top and radically different in every possible aspect from main heavily corporation driven humanity. I would blame that for overall "overthetopness" of UT2k3 and UC2, but we don't have any other Egyptians presence in UT series. Venom team and one Domination map in UT'99 have egyptian theme, but it is not that present in players consciousness. I have few ideas how to tune down this faction but that would mean removing this SC2 Protoss vibe from them aka golden ornamental stuff and blue magic crystals. And that might be not what are fans of this faction expecting. From the other side Epic ignored fan expectations with Necris already, so should i bother about Egyptians?
                      Screw topics ! Off topic is a lot more fun !

                      I agree on that the Nakhti theme was over the top, kind of Protoss like... Which is what I think gives the feeling they don't fit in the UT universe. But back when I was playing these two games, UT2k3/2k4 was a little less shocking than UC2. I would like to see the result if it was toned down, and more on par with what we saw with the UT castles. More traditional but with subtles elements that show we still are in the future. Same could be done with the Asian theme, and even some other cultures.

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                        @Darkloser
                        I often reference other things while talking. Many topics are connected and as long as we talk about revelant stuff and no moderation complains i don't avoid it too much. Natural flow of discussion makes it easier to talk and keep connections between topics in mind. If i had to create separate topic for everything then i would spam a lot of them.

                        And about Egyptians and Protoss... Protoss were not like that in SC1. Just todays Blizzard don't get their own universes anymore and screws them up everytime :P. For tuning egyptians down. What i was thinking was removing heavy ornamentation and royal elements and replacing them with middle eastern desert clothing. But i haven't thought much about it tbh.

                        Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
                        More traditional but with subtles elements that show we still are in the future. Same could be done with the Asian theme, and even some other cultures.
                        Yup. Thats what i mean't when i suggested adding ancient big *** anti aircraft cannons from Mangley of DM-Chill to viking DM-Chill of Gooba
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                          Epic didn't develop Unreal 2, Legend Entertainment did. Epic was working on UT2k3 (then UT2) together with DE until some point, at which it split into Unreal Championship, which DE developed, and UT2k3 as we know it, which Epic developed.
                          The new UT is coming along nicely...
                          Maybe a new Unreal would be a good idea for Epic's next project? It's certainly somewhat overdue...

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                            YemYam give new pics from The Robot Fraction?

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                              http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150508170204

                              I really like this one, there are some great more classic robot concepts around on the forum and I believe they could be taken further to great affect.
                              Last edited by MonsOlympus; 01-14-2016, 09:43 AM.
                              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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                                Hello all, based on internal team feedback and all of your comments in this thread we have decided to do a major overhaul on the bot design. Therefore, it will be a bit before I have something to share again.
                                Sr. Mechanical Modeler, Epic Games
                                Unreal Championship 2 - Unreal Tournament 3 - Unreal Tournament 4 - Gears of War 1, 2, & 3 - Gears of War Judgement
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                                My Portfolio of Mechy Bittles
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