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  • replied
    UC2 was developed by Epic, not DE...As a matter of fact, until UC2 all Unreal games (except Unreal 1's mission pack Return to Na Pali, and Unreal 2) were co-developed by Epic and DE.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
    Egyptian theme is really weird case. It can fit what i imagine as Unreal but fact that Nakhti are humans and has drastically different technology which is on par with main humanity and skaarj empire is aganist previous world lore. If they were aliens with lower level tech it would fit.
    I disagree on that point. Nakhti could be humans with a different culture, like in reality. Same for asian theme or anything like that. Humanity have colonized a lot of different planets, maybe some of these colonies have also kept a strong culture depending of their leader (or other factors). So the Nakhti would be a sub-branches of the humans, which kept the theme and some traditions of ancient egypt. You can then imagine that their architectures follow a pattern similar to those of the "space castles" we had in UT99 : Take a pyramid, put some sci-fi lights and technology on it (something clearly visible but not too invasive), and hell maybe you can even put a sci-fi city as a background.
    I didn't liked the look of the maps in UC2 in general... I thought the egyptian maps in UT2k4 followed better that direction, with subtles bright lights hidden in the iconography, giving that alien or sci-fi vibe. The technology was too invasive in UC2 egyptian themed maps.

    So nakthi can posses the same level of technology as human if they're a sub-branches (dunno about skaarj, I think their level of technology is higher than that of humans) and it isn't against the lore.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    Everyone has their own idea of what UT should be, some of us are obviously more planted in UT being an extension of Unreal proper where others like UT99 as a stand alone title with only light ties to Unreal at best. Then you got your UC fans, Vehicle fans, UT has really grown into a universe so I hope Epic can pull off what Marvel and DC do with their comic multi-verses and get them all back on the same page. It'd great if Unreal started to spawn spinoffs again like it did with UT
    Well... there are two Unreal paths. U1 -> UT'99 -> UT2k4 (with some UT2k3 elements) is the classic one and UC1 (UT2k3) -> UC2 is Unreal Championship or what i like to call "Digital Extremes not getting the Unreal Universe". I could discuss why high tech egyptians don't fit into Unreal Universe in the form they presented, but pointing out that they added Raiden in it is enough.

    About multiverses... when someone does it and it's not part of the idea from the beggining then this is proof that someone sucks balls at designing and maintaining their universe so much that he has to use worst kind of cheats. And DC Universe is prime example of such incompetence in my opinion at least. UT has simmiliar problem with maintaining the universe, but it's not so huge so it's elements can be rearanged to make sense. Also there is other problem... with multiverse there is intercation between universes which means that suddenly people not accepting Nightmare team or Nakhti as their canon has to do that. Not mentioning gigantic plot holes it produces which can't be filled by someone who screwed up universe designing at the first place.

    ...sorry... Changed my mind... prime example of sucking balls at desiging and maintaining universes is post 2004 Blizzard. They screwed up Warcraft universe with WoW so badly that they reached dead end and had to use multiverse cheats in order to make relasing next expansions even possible. And they didn't learned their lessons since they did same exact **** with Starcraft universe to the point that oldschool fans are willing to accept as their canon conspiracy theory where all Starcraft2 story was a result of Jim Raynors delirium and actually never happened.

    Epic has the luck that UT never was story oriented, but still i wish to prevent repeating same errors Blizzard did. Unreal universe has huge potential and it would be pity if it was wasted.

    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    Im glad you can see the concept for what its worth, not everyone is a materials expert especially in 2d and you know whats important to get this concept to model. Once painted in PBR with yellow paint and metal scratches this would really pop out and be much more realistic than people realise. Its not "that" manga flavoured in all honesty, its much more western than the original with most of the magna style purely being nods to the original concept, I honestly think it has a nice industrial feel to it because of the colouring and the X pattern on the panels. It looks like it could actually take a rocket hit to the body.
    Yup. UT2k3 robots were anime by design but didn't had neede stylization. Aberius concept is kinda opposite. It is more realistic by design but remnants of original design and Aberius stroke is enough to give that anime impression.

    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    I agree in part but there were a few parts I liked from UT3, mainly that the robot parts didnt fit together so well and had baggy pants or guts for some unknown reason, or the flimsy mid-section. I dont think the approach on a whole is bad, its much the same as whats mentioned about Aberius concept, with the better materials in PBR the robots would look better just off the bat.
    UT3 robots were hard to read and they all kinda looked the same. There are some minor ideas you can borrow from it like robot with big belly, but it's not different from borrowing ideas from completely other game, movie or even semi random painting from devian art. You can take design elements but you can't take character or faction identity from there. In UT'99/UT2k3/UT2k4 you can actually do this. At least in my opinion.

    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    I like the Asian theme but it needs to be brought inline with the rest of UT, I like the whole high tech tokyo shopping mall kinda vibe Coret in UT3 had, perhaps not for that map but I think it works and is a great nod to Cyberpunk. Shangri-la had potential, it almost captured this dreamy otherworldly escapism that the original Unreal had but it felt dull in colours, it really needed to be more vivid like a lucid dream so I do think there is a place for the theme in the Unreal Universe it just needs to coalesce that the overall vision is the important one that other UTs have mainly neglected.
    Cyberpunk asian cities are ok in UT. They might need to be realligned a bit as UT'99 was "concrete cyberpunk" (or matte) and UT3 Coret was "unpainted metal cyberpunk" (or shiny) but UT2k4 already managed to fit both of those in one game. For Shangri-la... it would have work if it was more otherwordly. It lacked some crazy spin UT'99 space castles had. Shangr-la was just too realistic and could fit into other games while space castles are the domain of Unreal. I had simmiliar issue with official DM-Chill concept. From what i understand this is snowy castle with strong viking themes, statues, shields and carpets. While it is really nice i thing it lacks this otherworldy spin. It could fit in other viking themed game. I liked Magley concept where there was clear sky and some ancient rusty anti aircraft cannons. Clear sky makes it feel like north pole not just winter. Ancient alien anti aircraft cannons are good spin. Serenity and derelict are traits of UT'99 space castles. And while DM-Chill is not classic space castle it can has the simmiliar soul. And it still can be viking with statues, carpets and shields. Moreover it should. Derelict alien vikings castle with ancient anti air craft cannons? I think it fits Unreal universe ^_^.

    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    UC2 on the other hand since it was a heavy SP orientated game as well as MP had this flow through the environments, the high-tech Nakhti one being way better than the more traditional Egyptian maps in the original UC and UT2k3. I think the Egyptian theme has worked better for UT in the past than the Persian style of UT3, Sandstorm could have been a huge Pyramid that simply appears from the storm like a mirage. I like that the Nakhti city is kinda like this rich Oasis of culture where the outskirts are ruinous deserts, I really hope people explore the actual planets in Unreal instead of just making a cool map layout then throwing a theme at it, I like it when a level has an actual setting
    Egyptian theme is really weird case. It can fit what i imagine as Unreal but fact that Nakhti are humans and has drastically different technology which is on par with main humanity and skaarj empire is aganist previous world lore. If they were aliens with lower level tech it would fit.[/quote]

    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    And you made me go offtopic, how dare you....
    In case of art threads i go kinda offtopic all the time because while we work on design of one element we define art direction further. Also most of my crits are more about vibe, soul and identity rather than placing of one piston :P

    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    If you look at this compared to Aberius concept you can immediately see how much better theirs is, these robots had these odd wide stances but they did have the Liandri Hammers.
    It's closer to UT2k4 Corrupt team. In lore people who designed this robot wanted it to look great, not to be easy and to mass produce. The only thing what makes it different from The Corrupt is lack of retro stylization like art deco for example. UT2k3 robots were mean't to be industrial and suitable for mass production. They were part of the tournament because of their rougue AI while The Corrupt (ut2k4 one) was designed for the tournament (UT'99 warmachine were ambigous, but UT2k4 lore would suggest that they were robots from the uprising).

    Originally posted by YemYam View Post
    ...a matter of what is the best use of my time. If I'm spending more time explaining my decisions than making them that is counter productive.

    Even more importantly, if we end up talking about doing things more than actually doing them that is extremely counter productive. I like making progress on things and I'd rather create than critique.
    Well preproduction and desing is not counter productive. And it's not that time consuing if you let community do that for you instead of doing it yourself and then presenting to the community when it is finnished. I loved approach of relic at the beggining of development aka "We want to focus on X now, but we don't know how it will look yet. Please tell us how you would like it to look" but it was replaced with "Hi guys, we already figured out everything. You can give feedback but not evryone can be pleased and criticizing or arguing is couter productive". It cuts off community input and instead letting them give their ideas to build the concept, the same ideas are turned into the cirtique of the official concept. The same community energy is pulling you back instead of pushing you forward. At least it is my take on it...

    Originally posted by YemYam View Post
    I spent a huge amount of time interacting on the forums last year and was less productive than I wanted to be. This year I'm trying to balance things better and focus on getting more stuff in the game. I'll still share and contribute as much as possible but talking less and doing more is my priority.

    Thanks for your understanding.
    Personally i think that this forum needs high dev-communty interaction and you were really good at it

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  • replied
    I hope the Robots come for free in the Game

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  • replied
    Originally posted by YemYam View Post
    Thanks for your understanding.
    Yeah..... makes sense. We really were baited in the beginning with "In the meantime please let us know what you think and if you have any ideas to share." But hey, it ain't your job to post in the forums and explain every little design decision to obsessive, opinionated, and stubborn nerds like us (or at least I am). That's just the nature of the beast, and a consequence of the holiday shut down.

    I think I speak for most of us when I say we're looking forward to more pics of sweet, sweet robots coming down the line.

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  • replied
    This I will watch closely, and make some drawings with those parameters from the first post. Happy new Year!

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  • replied
    Hello all, I hope everybody had a happy new year! Thanks for all of the comments and crits. To those few that were concerned that you scared me off or hurt my feelings by your negative crits don't worry. It has nothing to do with that, it's simply a matter of what is the best use of my time. If I'm spending more time explaining my decisions than making them that is counter productive.

    Even more importantly, if we end up talking about doing things more than actually doing them that is extremely counter productive. I like making progress on things and I'd rather create than critique.

    I spent a huge amount of time interacting on the forums last year and was less productive than I wanted to be. This year I'm trying to balance things better and focus on getting more stuff in the game. I'll still share and contribute as much as possible but talking less and doing more is my priority.

    Thanks for your understanding.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
    #robothighgap
    #driveabusthruthere

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  • replied
    #robothighgap

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
    Wail seems to understand essence of Unreal Universe. However Epic seems to not care much about what he says
    Everyone has their own idea of what UT should be, some of us are obviously more planted in UT being an extension of Unreal proper where others like UT99 as a stand alone title with only light ties to Unreal at best. Then you got your UC fans, Vehicle fans, UT has really grown into a universe so I hope Epic can pull off what Marvel and DC do with their comic multi-verses and get them all back on the same page. It'd great if Unreal started to spawn spinoffs again like it did with UT


    Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
    Well cartoonish look is part of Aberiu style, not delibrate part of ideas he wants to share through his sketches. Throw away this stylization, add some grunge and this concept would fit quite well. This concept has good shapes and details and thats what is important in concept sketches.
    Im glad you can see the concept for what its worth, not everyone is a materials expert especially in 2d and you know whats important to get this concept to model. Once painted in PBR with yellow paint and metal scratches this would really pop out and be much more realistic than people realise. Its not "that" manga flavoured in all honesty, its much more western than the original with most of the magna style purely being nods to the original concept, I honestly think it has a nice industrial feel to it because of the colouring and the X pattern on the panels. It looks like it could actually take a rocket hit to the body.

    Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
    Unreal has few robot archetype factions and in my opinion they all can fit into the new UT after minor tweaks. Well... maybe besides UT3 robots... they were just dull :P
    I agree in part but there were a few parts I liked from UT3, mainly that the robot parts didnt fit together so well and had baggy pants or guts for some unknown reason, or the flimsy mid-section. I dont think the approach on a whole is bad, its much the same as whats mentioned about Aberius concept, with the better materials in PBR the robots would look better just off the bat.

    Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
    Thats because they didn't fit into the essence of UT. Someone made a diagram showing off UT level themes and asian one fit literally nowhere. Pretty much exactly like UT2k3 egyptian high-tech theme. UT levels have certain vibe and traits. You can add quite weird stuff into the UT levels as long as it captures the soul and essence. And from the other hand quite toned down and logical stuff like asian theme can feel out of place. Pretty much because UT levels outside industrial/low s-f have to be a bit out of place to not feel out of place. Such is the essence of UT :P

    And now another ******* post from me :/ I can't use sandwitching technique. Just making mess in YemYams threads while he is actually the most community cooperative guy out there ;_;
    I like the Asian theme but it needs to be brought inline with the rest of UT, I like the whole high tech tokyo shopping mall kinda vibe Coret in UT3 had, perhaps not for that map but I think it works and is a great nod to Cyberpunk. Shangri-la had potential, it almost captured this dreamy otherworldly escapism that the original Unreal had but it felt dull in colours, it really needed to be more vivid like a lucid dream so I do think there is a place for the theme in the Unreal Universe it just needs to coalesce that the overall vision is the important one that other UTs have mainly neglected.

    UC2 on the other hand since it was a heavy SP orientated game as well as MP had this flow through the environments, the high-tech Nakhti one being way better than the more traditional Egyptian maps in the original UC and UT2k3. I think the Egyptian theme has worked better for UT in the past than the Persian style of UT3, Sandstorm could have been a huge Pyramid that simply appears from the storm like a mirage. I like that the Nakhti city is kinda like this rich Oasis of culture where the outskirts are ruinous deserts, I really hope people explore the actual planets in Unreal instead of just making a cool map layout then throwing a theme at it, I like it when a level has an actual setting

    And you made me go offtopic, how dare you....

    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    If you look at this compared to Aberius concept you can immediately see how much better theirs is, these robots had these odd wide stances but they did have the Liandri Hammers.

    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    This made them seem functional, that they were used for mining so even if there isnt an actual usable weapon perhaps designing the impact hammer in tandem with the robots would be a good idea to get that sense of their function. Industrial robots probably do welding, heavy lifting, even grinding down the rock with drills and jacks, they might not need a high level of dexterity if the tools are designed for easy use by the robots. If you compare Aberius hand to the Phase 1 for eg, you can see theirs looks stronger and more rugged.
    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 01-04-2016, 12:54 AM.

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  • replied
    I'm broadly oversimplifying for humoristic purposes - every Unreal incarnation had some good ideas worth keeping. But there is difference between elements you want to keep (like Juggernauts team for example) and unique soul of Unreal universe. Imao mentioned games had strong, mysterious soul easily distinguishable from other s-f universes while others were less unique. You can take parts you like from both and make them to hold the soul of the first group (or at least don't work aganist it).

    Epic declared their art direction as "clean and sporty" but it doesn't mean that there will be no more space castles. Changes with art direction doesn't mean the soul is lost. Shock Rifle and Flak Cannon are examples of this case. Grabbing the soul is not an easy task though. Thats why we have to figure it out together.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
    Well... To understand Unreal essence take U1, UT'99, throw away U2, dunno with UT2k3, take UT2k4, throw away UC2 and throw away UT3. The rule of thumb is to keep games where space castles fit into the game and throw away where they don't .

    Wail made nice analysis of "what is unreal" and why some titles failed to grasp it but link seems to stop working.

    Some people can understand what is essence of Unreal in different ways, but after brainstorming we can figure out some core traits distinguishing Unreal from your other s-f shooter universe (like space castes i mentioned earlier :3 )
    I don't think it is that simple. If you search in the right direction there's surely things you can keep in each game. But people have apprecied different games, which led to most of the disappointments and disagreements on the threads. While I would enjoy to see more of the first UT theme come back, there's also things from the other games I would like to see implemented.

    And **** I would like to see this analysis ! :c

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  • replied
    Well... To understand Unreal essence take U1, UT'99, throw away U2, dunno with UT2k3, take UT2k4, throw away UC2 and throw away UT3. The rule of thumb is to keep games where space castles fit into the game and throw away where they don't .

    Wail made nice analysis of "what is unreal" and why some titles failed to grasp it but link seems to stop working.

    Some people can understand what is essence of Unreal in different ways, but after brainstorming we can figure out some core traits distinguishing Unreal from your other s-f shooter universe (like space castes i mentioned earlier :3 )

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Ho... I think the "and even some of that" confused me. My bad.

    Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
    Thats because they didn't fit into the essence of UT. Someone made a diagram showing off UT level themes and asian one fit literally nowhere. Pretty much exactly like UT2k3 egyptian high-tech theme. UT levels have certain vibe and traits. You can add quite weird stuff into the UT levels as long as it captures the soul and essence. And from the other hand quite toned down and logical stuff like asian theme can feel out of place. Pretty much because UT levels outside industrial/low s-f have to be a bit out of place to not feel out of place. Such is the essence of UT :P
    The question is what truly is Unreal essence ? With so much differences beetwen the different iteration of Unreal Tournament, everybody have a different idea of what UT should look like. So what can we keep as a clear common ground for everybody ?
    Maybe all the factions and races can fit in the new UT, but it is clear that some of them will need a lot of rework and changes to really fit and blend in the universe.
    Mr.Crow come back !

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
    Wasn't it what I just said ? That UT4 is before UT99 ? When the Liandri just started to legalize blood sport and violence with the Tournament ?
    I'm saying UT4 takes place in 2341. It is the same tournament as the one in UT99, thus "reboot".

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