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    #31
    Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
    The more serious version is great. First visualization strikes me as too cartoonified for UT4 (his mouth in particular). I agree with the proportion feedback, if it can be reined in, then it's going in a fine direction. I enjoyed the concept art for the Ronin (I believe they were known as the "Twin Souls" then). It was the in-game versions that didn't live up to expectations especially due to how faded and blah the post-process and low polycount made the art look.

    I would like to see more chars that look a bit more like the UT3 ironguard personally, just having the big shoulder pads etc is something I feel nearly essential to the "UT look".
    You seem to change opinions alot!
    What you think of gorge from UC and 2k3,2k4?

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      #32
      Originally posted by bass3 View Post
      You seem to change opinions alot!
      In what way? And even if I did, so... a person isn't supposed to progress in their thinking? IMO I have never contradicted what I stated there.

      What you think of gorge from UC and 2k3,2k4?
      I have never liked fat Gorge. It's not a practical design. The new re-imagining of him isn't too bad.

      Any other criticisms that I've had of UT3, especially player models was always about other factions, not Iron Guard. The robots especially.
      Last edited by HenrikRyosa; 03-26-2016, 08:36 AM.

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        #33
        These are looking very very VERY good! Fantastic work!

        I'm on the fence about whether it looks "too bulky" or not...
        Just my humble opinion, but I feel like the "bulkiness" resembles in with the Juggernauts from UT2k4, and absolutely resonates with UT3 (which I've come to really enjoy now that I have it on PC)

        A helmet option I think would be fantastic! Maybe a few different styles? I can easily see the helmet connecting at the neck guard.

        I would be very interested to see a sleeker more streamlined version though, just to see what it would look like.

        Great work so far! keep it up!

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          #34
          Well done sculpt and agree with most of the praise so I guess I'll give a few crits.

          First:

          I think the weathering is a bit over-scuffed which makes the forms more busy. I'd rather see a more worn look from years of use to the armor. IE, weathering in overlapping spots, like where those thigh-armor straps overlay black part--or where the wrist armor would overlap the hand. It can actually bring out the forms and give them better definition. I think some chrome or fully-exposed chrome (which can be scratched/heat-colored) on the horned and ribbed parts would really help bring out your sculpt vs flatgray scuff.

          And secondly, I think his hair looks a bit too perfect like he could be running for Gov of Texas without the tats and armor. In the original concept art it kinda looks like he has more aggressive widow's peaks with a slight mohawk tufted in the front. The facial tat in the original is also much more understated to the point where it could be an ocular enhancement in one eye, ie transistors in the flesh (just an idea vs standard warpaint).

          But great work again. I really like that the feet are still readable as feet vs the weird stilt-like boot-legs a lot of UT chars have. I'd try to emphasize the bridge a bit more so it looks like there is some mobility vs just a mass, but like I said, this works.

          Unlike the concept art, he still has a believable v-taper to the torso, nice!

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            #35
            I think this is interesting you decided to go with metal where Epic had more leather type of material for UT3, Im not sure about the metal on one hand I like it on the other I think leather suited the more organic shapes. Perhaps it was just an issue with the materials of the time that the metalness didnt show through so it felt more like leather. I much prefer the face on the latter one, it does seem abit too comic book with all the post
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              #36
              Originally posted by «MechikTåj» View Post
              On UT3's characters, I actually liked a lot of their designs. The problem with them, particularly the male ones, was that the style borrowed too heavily from Gears of War, so we got excessively bulky, "over-inflated" looking characters - some of which had poor proportions too (heads/helmets too big, etc.) But had that aspect of the designs been drastically toned-down, they would've looked considerably better and more fitting for the fast and agile nature of the game. I think the female characters overall looked much better in that regard.
              I love it when people say that the UT characters were "too Gears of War" - just to set the timeline, UT3's characters came first in terms of development (although not necessarily in terms of release). UT3's Malcolm was the first character that was built in UE3. If anything, the Gears characters were actually "too UT" Gears originally started as an Unreal Tournament mod though (long story), so that makes sense.

              And UT99 definitely had some bulky characters - heavy boots, huge gauntlets, and GIANT shoulders were the calling card of Iron Guard, Thundercrash, Metalguard, and Raw Steel... not to mention all the bots (both Xan and Warmachine variants) and all the Skaarj Hybrids. The Merc models offset that bulkiness though, and that's what I'd like to see from this version of UT: distinct silhouettes based on team, and a good variety that covers every end of the spectrum that can be crammed into the one collision cylinder. In that sense, there's even a place for this type of Ronin character, if we could agree that this is what the Ronin team looked like.
              Last edited by Entropy; 03-29-2016, 10:55 AM.
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                #37
                Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                The Merc models offset that bulkiness though, and that's what I'd like to see from this version of UT: distinct silhouettes based on team, and a good variety that covers every end of the spectrum that can be crammed into the one collision cylinder. In that sense, there's even a place for this type of Ronin character, if we could agree that this is what the Ronin team looked like.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                  I love it when people say that the UT characters were "too Gears of War" - just to set the timeline, UT3's characters came first in terms of development (although not necessarily in terms of release). UT3's Malcolm was the first character that was built in UE3. If anything, the Gears characters were actually "too UT" Gears originally started as an Unreal Tournament mod though (long story), so that makes sense.

                  And UT99 definitely had some bulky characters - heavy boots, huge gauntlets, and GIANT shoulders were the calling card of Iron Guard, Thundercrash, Metalguard, and Raw Steel... not to mention all the bots (both Xan and Warmachine variants) and all the Skaarj Hybrids. The Merc models offset that bulkiness though, and that's what I'd like to see from this version of UT: distinct silhouettes based on team, and a good variety that covers every end of the spectrum that can be crammed into the one collision cylinder. In that sense, there's even a place for this type of Ronin character, if we could agree that this is what the Ronin team looked like.
                  Well a lot of that old blockiness was obviously a polycount factor.

                  The 'blockiness' that people usually refer to comes from WH40k inspiration--which let's not pretend that WH40k/WH nerds didn't take over Sci-Fi and a chunk of Fantasy art direction in games of the past decade.

                  Plus with the explosion of freelance, it's basically all the same people [mindset] making all of the same games.

                  This stuff is common knowledge to anyone who's been around since Polycount.

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                    #39
                    I just returned from being out of town visiting fam for the holiday... very cool to crack open this thread and see so much passionate\ knowledgeable discussion about this game's characters and history.

                    A lot of great information, thoughts, opinions, and general feedback from you all.

                    My take is pretty much spot on with Entropy... of course with healthy doses of other's thoughts as well. I think, based on seeing the current state of UT's character lineup, that there is room for a "tank" beefier armored up badass. If he has Gears influenced visual traits then... well... that's not a bad thing. Gears looked awesome. Understood that UT obviously isn't Gears... I'm just saying some traits (boots, bulky armor) aren't a bad carry over. The more diverse shaped character silhouettes within a game= more cool visual options to choose from.

                    As I mentioned before... I really dig the Ronin's unique design flavor. Its true that he more than likely would need to fit onto an existing rig to actually go into this game. Doing this would have the bonus effect of trimming him down a bit and simplifying areas.. making him much more UT. I'm currently busy working on a game (Orcs Must Die! Unchained... ... it just went into open beta TODAY!) so I will attempt to rough out what this guy could look like on an existing rig, in the near future. I'll simplify areas and, as mentioned in an earlier comment, suave out his hair a bit

                    Thanks!
                    Last edited by Baggh; 03-30-2016, 10:59 AM.

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                      #40
                      I'd make the first guy's helmet a cone shape, would suit the armor and look awesome. Look up Torquemada from Nemesis the Warlock, some similar inspiration there.

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                        #41
                        Hey,

                        I made some quick tweaks to the original model to bring him more in-line with UT4's scale and proportions. I used the current Skaarj and Necris Female models as reference. This guy now fits onto the Skaarj rig. I also simplified areas of the original Ronin armor to make the surfaces more readable and bring him more in-line with UT4's flavor.

                        I plan on massaging a few more things (suaving out his hair) and then move onto refining him... that is, if you are digging where he is headed. He still has a bit of bulk to him and is readable as Ronin, methinks (particularly due to those spikes on his shoulder area).

                        As always... fire away with your thoughts... they're appreciated!

                        The following images are max screen grabs...

                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Baggh; 04-11-2016, 12:40 PM.

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                          #42
                          AWESOME!!! Amazing work

                          I'm doing a very rough / quick paint over now with my suggestion.
                          Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                            AWESOME!!! Amazing work

                            I'm doing a very rough / quick paint over now with my suggestion.
                            I personally think you've gone a bit too far with reducing the shoulder armour. I know why you've done it, but when I think of Team Ronin, I think of the Armour having a structure like the shoulder pads from NFL (Grid Iron).

                            So I've copied across the old one.


                            Two ways you could reduce if you still think it needs it:
                            1) Flare the top part out similar to the shoulder pad from NFL
                            2) Trim off and blend the over hanging top part.

                            I realise it is hard for me to get my reduction suggestions across in words....if I get time I'll try to do another paint over.
                            Attached Files
                            Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

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                              #44
                              Great feed, richardboegli... and I def get what you're saying... and agree. Thanks!

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by Baggh View Post
                                Great feed, richardboegli... and I def get what you're saying... and agree. Thanks!
                                I actually like the reduced shoulder pads myself. I don't feel like crazy shoulder pads are going to line up with Epic's vision of UT4.
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