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    Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
    UT wasn't and shouldn't be that military like we have it now with weapons and all, first thing. It's a futuristic shooter in another galaxy and time, you '99 guys probably read too much military into it because it was boxy low poly models back then or you played too many war games untill today, perverting your taste.

    Second thing: UT is a factions blood sport tournament, thatfor I'm very much for teams where the members have individualities but are dressed in a matching outfit, "belong visibly to the same troop."

    And about Necris diversity, the UT99 Necris are just one team of one type of Necris: Phayder Necris Assassins - Black Legion. There can be various different Necris factions in the long run. I just prefer Gooba's concept as the more stylish, more UT-matching and more self-determined Necris image to be the default team, but I wouldn't mind if Black Legion soldiers (Mangley's seem the best for them), cyber goth punks and whatnot other Necris teams you want, follow. But they must always come in teams with corporate identity & scifi-vampires>zombie-soldiers.
    TheoRiginal and I don't really see eye to eye on the Necris direction, but I do think it's fair to acknowledge that factions as a whole need some cohesiveness.

    Actually Theo's characterization of the Necris in UT99 as being highly militarized is rather against the general impression that I (and I think most people) got from them. Namely that the Necris are mostly a loosely-collected group of people who are individually quite adept but resistant to social authority. That's hardly much of a stretch since the visual styles that inspired the Necris (Goth, Metal, etc) are smaller subcultures that tend to be highly critical of, and differentiate themselves from, mainstream culture. This is also reflected in Necris lore through the brief snippets we receive, since the Necris are generally spoken of as being these lone wolf sorts of characters who go and assassinate important people, blow up places, or wreak havoc just because they are dark, twisted misanthropes.

    Now a person who identified with the Necris from that era is going to see these things in them: The sort of individualistic nature of the Necris, their rejection of socially-accepted authorities like the government, mainstream religion, commercialism, etc.


    When UT3 rolled around, we had this interesting mix of trying to recast the Necris as this race of Borg-like beings with a strong religious bent. Aside from the way the visual style departed from past incarnations of the Necris, the weirdest thing about portraying the Necris as they did in UT3 is that they went from being these solitary hunters, stalking prey across the darkness of outer space, to a group of de-individualized people with a strong religious hierarchy. Isn't that ironic? Here we have a faction that is essentially based off of subcultures occasionally known for subverting and destroying religious iconography -- And two games later they are being re-cast as Space Catholics. See the mismatch here?


    So now we have UT4, and the lesson being taken from UT3 is that casting the Necris as a fringe group of religious people was the wrong direction. Supposedly, turning them into a militarized group of space cyborgs was fine. Instead, the idea is, we should cast the Necris as a group of specialized cyborg supersoldiers of a given corporation. Again, we have a faction based on personifying a subculture that resists authority, mocking unthinking militaristic behavior & mass commercialization, and here we have a faction that is literally embodying those concepts. Doesn't that seem wrong?

    The thing that's common to both of these ideas is that the Necris are part of this strong hierarchical organization. Whether one way or the other, it is contrary to the thematic core of the Necris.
    It's as silly as trying to re-cast the Skaarj as a race of peaceful philosopher-kings. That just isn't what they're about, and it is alienating to the fans who liked those elements established in past games.
    Last edited by Wail; 03-09-2015, 03:00 AM.
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      Guys, the community has already had a large effect on many different areas of the game but we can't expect to win 'em all.
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        Originally posted by M^uL View Post
        Guys, the community has already had a large effect on many different areas of the game but we can't expect to win 'em all.
        Not sure why you're throwing your hands up in the air when the game is pre-Alpha or why you're viewing this as confrontational. We're working together to improve the game.
        Literally the only change that would be need to happen here is going into a localization file and changing one word from "Necris" to essentially anything else.
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          Actually, I was saying everything in UT99 (Necris inclusive) was much less military than we get it now for UT4 and that it seems you '99 fans want it to be totally military. How are soldiers for you representing subversive individuals? If you want to have Black Legion Necris, let's have a Black Legion Necris! But if you want intelligent, individualistic and stylish ornamented Necris, Gooba's take is the much better way imo.

          That's just my personal opinion and I like to discuss everything aslong as we can to get the best final stock UT. I respect other opinions of course and think it doesn't harm to discuss and try to find common ground for all.

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            Morbidity - thats the actual identity of all Necris!
            And this is also the aspect that must be reflected
            the best way to at all keep their characteristics.
            GOod STUff HERe <<

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              @TheoRiginal
              I get military feel from UT'99. But this is not modern military, but retrocyberpunk-industrial-military feel. It is because Tournament was organized shortly after human-skaarj war. Many weapons looked like tooked from battlefield rather than designed for tournament (Liandri seemed to be trying to save up some money at the begginings of grand tournament as many arenas were abandoned places which could be bought relatively cheaply). Many teams and participants have military/mercenary/spec ops back stories including beeing veterans of human-skaarj war. Necris from UT'99 were kind of mercenary assassins.

              About Necris beeing visibly part of the same group. I think pale skins, black/white hair, black clothing or armour, logos of phayder corp or their team and striking individualism is enough to say that they are connected.
              Last edited by Fartuess; 03-09-2015, 11:16 AM.
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                I really love all the great concept art you guys have going on, but do we know yet whether this game is going to be pre Brock and Lauren becoming Necris, or post Brock and Lauren becoming Necris? Oh and uhh... Sorry for the spoiler if you haven't played Unreal Championship 2.
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                  I live the concept but im not feeling the model.
                  Textures and materials probably have a lot to do with it, it lacks naturality to its surface.

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                    @Dr.ToxicVenom
                    I think we will thrash Brock and Lauren becoming Necris. This does not fit those characters. Although we can create other Necris being in other teams. Like Gorn from Dark Phalanx can be Necris or Frostbite from Juggernauts... Those characters looked pretty dead.
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                      Unreal Championship series is a different continuity anyway (at least in my mind).
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                        Originally posted by Wail View Post
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                          This is the base Necris design. It's not necessarily Loque.

                          I have strong opinions about this, but am not unwilling to compromise.

                          The Necris are a powerful race of reanimated beings created by the Phayder corporation. The reanimation is accomplished through the use of a liquid substance called Nano-black and I would like to think a with a little bit of the fantastic possibly in the form of some ancient long forgotten rite or power.

                          Nano-black looks like a black liquid but really it is billions of microscopic nano-tech machines working to bring the organism to life. The effect is a dark, twisted, being bent on conquering and laying waste to all in its path. The nano tech runs through them but also coats the outer areas and can protect vital organs and areas of locomotion.

                          For example, the black on his face and head is nano-black on the outside. This can be modded to produce different markings and effects.

                          Part of the reason I chose this base design is because it's very easy to "paperdoll". The face can have many different iterations and configurations The black markings can be used in a tribal way to make many different and custom looks. Being human shaped you can add armor and helmets easily and they can also be modded to fit other characters of human shape and size.

                          I see them more as a master race than zombies. I feel like they would think that they are truly above humanity of you will, by dying and being reborn, a combination of organics and technology, they feel they are the perfect race.

                          They would feel like they have transcended humanity.

                          I also like the idea that other races can be reanimated with Nano-black.

                          What would a Necris Skaarj hybrid look like?

                          That said I wanted them to look sinister and dark. I think this design accomplishes that.

                          We are working on the shaders and player visibility as well as a few other things. What you see above is about 40% complete.

                          The hope is that they will eventually also have armor and helmets and a ton of variation.

                          Best,
                          -Chris

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                            would be great to know more about this and other official design decision in a proper wiki.

                            A wiki that mirrors the official, even if temporary, state of the project for everyone to understand what is happening and how things are moving.

                            It's hard to find up to date official information and most of the time one can only rely on other users chit-chatting to figure out the state of things.

                            Just like the wiki of many released games with all the gameplay, maps , weapons, characters , story and so on with the necessary spoiler alerts for who is not interested in the development aspects and wants to experience everything just playing it.

                            It surely require quite some work from epic as every statements in the wiki needs to be official even if temporary, but it could be a very focused effort and may save time later in the development and speed up mods time to market.

                            Said this I find necris race very cool and I hope to see some creative use of nano-black in shaders in skin and eyes to reflect some character states/emotions (would be especially cool for spectators that may see characters from a closer view).
                            I see it to be a kind of gradient mask that get multiplied by different tribal patterns to make these last ones blend in in an organic way(kind of what heightmaps do with vertex painting texture blending).

                            About Death there will be space for some necris character with an advanced state of decomposition(so partial zombie look like) or the resurrection procedure will aways come with full recondition of the entire body?

                            SKaarj hybrid chris talked about could be one of the coolest character in the game and if there will be an advanced decomposition one that could be one of the most scary.

                            On of the problems with the actual character looking zombie is probably it's natural face pose that makes it look absent, with the proper facial pose it will look more assasin and no zombie at all.

                            When there will be some directions about cosmetics for the different character , races and so on?

                            It will be great if we can get as soon as character get released an art guide like the one made for dota 2 that explain technical constraints and artistic direction of the custom content with examples of what is ok and what is out of place so to skip many common mistakes.
                            Last edited by Deadlineproof; 03-16-2015, 11:58 AM.

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                              Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
                              We are working on the shaders and player visibility as well as a few other things. What you see above is about 40% complete.
                              That's good to know.
                              I've checked out the characters with all types of video settings and the Necris with AA turned off is really-really noisy around the armor/body edges, mostly because of the sharp texture + reflection material. A fix for this might be to make it more matte and tone down the sharpness of the normal in the affected areas.

                              I personally like the visual direction the Necris are at. It does need tweaks, but I think it'll work out eventually.

                              As for the nano-black, a lot of people are on different sides of the fence about this. I don't mind it, but I don't think it's applied well with this version of Necris (I'm guessing it was rushed). The sculpt concept that Chris put together was spot-on as it was very organic and showed the black rushing through the nerves and veins under the skin. This version just seems very flat and there seems to be no noticeable Nano application apart from the face. I think it'd be good to have some around the plugs and armor around the body.
                              Last edited by danpaz3d; 03-17-2015, 08:53 PM.
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                                Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                                It's a futuristic shooter in another galaxy and time
                                Earth is real place in Unreal lore. Actually Malcolm was born on Earth.
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