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    Thank you Chris for showing up

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    This is the base Necris design. It's not necessarily Loque.

    I have strong opinions about this, but am not unwilling to compromise.
    Let's start the discussion ^_^

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    The Necris are a powerful race of reanimated beings created by the Phayder corporation. The reanimation is accomplished through the use of a liquid substance called Nano-black...
    Agreed, agreed...

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    ...and I would like to think a with a little bit of the fantastic possibly in the form of some ancient long forgotten rite or power.
    It is certainly an idea of strong direction, but it might need expanding UT lore on new fields which were not in UT domain. Also it is pulling a bit in UT3 Necris vibe i feel.

    Personally i'm interesting in exploring cyberpunk part of UT which can also give a glimpse of what is mankind struggling with and the role of corporations in the society. And technology which is making people immortal is being developed. Technology is being used to overcome the fear of death. Very high tech in contrast of very primitive needs and fears? This is the core of cyberpunk acording to Mike Pondsmith. Personally i like in cyberpunk, that people's nature have problem with keeping pace with fast developing technology. And how corporation which developed nanoblack will act? What power it gives them over NEG, other corporations and society? Do they use it as a leverage?

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    Nano-black looks like a black liquid but really it is billions of microscopic nano-tech machines working to bring the organism to life.
    agreed.

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    The effect is a dark, twisted, being bent on conquering and laying waste to all in its path. The nano tech runs through them but also coats the outer areas and can protect vital organs and areas of locomotion.
    Venom?

    In scenario where nanoblack was not designed by humans entirely it can have those unwanted effects.
    In scenario where nanoblack are nanites crated by humans entirely i will think about keeping their capabilities quite limited. It should give back life and allow immortality but have flaws. Immortality but at price. And those flaws can help us give Necris some traits. Also if human nanotech was developed too far besides nanoblack being perfect, thy would be capable of creating grey goo (nanite based weapon of mass destruction) making all warfare on planet surfaces non-existent (in space sun wind and gamma rays damages their integrated circuits rendering them useless acording what modern science think about this potential weapon). Another reason of keeping technology at bay is that if we push it too far we would go after point where people nature struggled with rapidly changing technology.

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    For example, the black on his face and head is nano-black on the outside. This can be modded to produce different markings and effects.
    Yes... just like tattoos . Some Necris just might start to like them because of psyche changes made by nanoblood. Yes i like push nanoblood changes more to pshychic rather that appearance. Appearance change can be consequence of psychic changes. And it allows visualizing personality through outfit and body modifications.

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    I see them more as a master race than zombies. I feel like they would think that they are truly above humanity of you will, by dying and being reborn, a combination of organics and technology, they feel they are the perfect race.

    They would feel like they have transcended humanity.
    Well... they might think about themselves as higher beings, but if they appear to not be them to the observer... Personally for me it looks similiarily to UT3 Necris case. People with a bit improved bodies who claim to have ascended to higher beings, who in fact are obviously just mentally ill. Someone who have ascended will be interested on matters of mind rather than matters of body and shouting at everybodys face "i'm immortal and you are not!". And besides that they have many body modifications impractical and annoying in normal life, so observer assume that they are mainly focused on being machines of war. Do contesters who live life fully and additionally beat the **** out of Necris think highly about them? I don't think so. And when power and strenght of those Necris seems mainly to come from Necrification, one can assume that they have mostly the same level of skills and strenght. Used to beating Necris? You can assume that they are all lower beings. Personally i would like Necris to be people who's skill doesn't change drastically after Necrification, but they were super deadly when alive and thats why they have been chosen. Now when you meet Necris you don't know what to expect and what he is capable of doing. You only know he is so skilled that it was worth enough for Phayder Corporation to put him through super expensive Necrification process. Different narration

    About mental illness. As i said before. I'm interested in fact that Necris might develop obsessions. But not mental ill to that point where they are deaf to any reasoning. They still understand others, they just have sometimes different priorities. And complex enough to be hard to sum up in one sentence . I want them to be like Vaas in matter that they are crazy but intelligent and can say something that will make you think for a while if they are actually right.

    Speaking of Vaas. Current design feels for me like first idea of pirate chief for FC3 - Bull.

    While i prefere this one:


    In first case visual design doesn't left too much space for personality. In second one... you know the story

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    I also like the idea that other races can be reanimated with Nano-black.

    What would a Necris Skaarj hybrid look like?
    I like this idea though i would like it to be very rare as Phayder is human corporation, and they have to have very good reasons to Nercify an alien.

    Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
    That said I wanted them to look sinister and dark. I think this design accomplishes that.
    Yes, but is this enough to stop searching? We can find something else that does that + something else or is completelty different, allthough interesting and with possibility of being quite complex. It is still quite early and i think the search should continue


    Once again thanks for posting! I wish we could see you here more often. I would like to push my ideas with yours aganist each other to test how proof they are to argument bombarding. I think it is good way of refining them. I hope i wasn't too hrash with my crits and opinions.

    Fartuess
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      Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
      Earth is real place in Unreal lore. Actually Malcolm was born on Earth.
      So? Doesn't change anything at what I was saying, does it? Other space and time, various different alien races, definitely not everything looking industrial human like we have it so far!

      Somehow you also suggest another more human-like psycho cyberpunk necris design which is very close to Perna's approach, but you're not happy with his one. Actually, most people in my area dont think of punk as a very attractive style to base a design upon. While you refute everything which is into UT3 Necris direction (supreme being, their own architectural design, their religious nanoblack cult, their own unique ornaments, etc.) which is actually the much higher evolved design concept imo.

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        Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
        So? Doesn't change anything at what I was saying, does it? Other space and time, various different alien races, definitely not everything looking industrial human like we have it so far!
        Thats why i want it to be UT kind of military, not modern military. Mankind in Unreal Universe had some big military conflicts with other races or corporate wars. And Tournament was created shortly after that. It started from underground and then were some first Grand Tournaments where new competitors fought with prisioners and other people with shady past (UT'99 Deathmatch Ladder) using weapons which had military look (enforcer with camo painting) or were tooked from Human-Skaarj conflict (like shock rifle). Again it is not modern military, but UT-kind of military. And what is important in military practicality and efficiency. I don't want UT military to be futurized version of modern military. It can be futurized version of military that now is looking a bit old, which would give it a bit retro-unique feeling. No call of duty .

        Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
        Somehow you also suggest another more human-like psycho cyberpunk necris design which is very close to Perna's approach, but you're not happy with his one.
        It is close if you put this that way, but it is actually quite different. I try to put emphasis on individuality rather than collectiveness. Also i'm trying to move the interesting point more to characters themselves rather than a fact they belong to Necris race.

        Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
        Actually, most people in my area dont think of punk as a very attractive style to base a design upon.
        Just to make sure we are on the same page. Cyberpunk characters are not punks (like Steampunk characters are not punks as well). I'm still pretty much into vampire/ocultic/medievalistic necris. Cyberpunk part is the technology used, corporations in background and a bit dystopian society itself in the background.

        Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
        While you refute everything which is into UT3 Necris direction (supreme being, their own architectural design, their religious nanoblack cult, their own unique ornaments, etc.) which is actually the much higher evolved design concept imo.
        Because they sprung out of nowhere as a civilization which looks to be separated from rest of humanity for at least couple of centuries (Developed completely different culture, completely different technology, they made themselfes immortal and rest of humanity did not intervened and both human civilisations didn't affected each other at all) - the same exact reason i don't like Egyptians. They just don't fit to other parts and try to define new context they could fit instead of fitting existing one. Also why would radically different civilisation try to take part in tournament which is part of "Earth humanity" culture?
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          Imho, you're limited in mind to earthly military, Fartuess. Military is always camou and edgy/industrial, because it's our modern human technology! It's what we have so far as most stable and disguised fighting architecture. UT3 Necris architecture was built in wild organic and fine structures, but agressive and menacingly expanding looking, too. Like a high cultured weed, growing over everything and supressing with its own style everything else. That's imperialistic and can aswell be called "futuristic military." In the far future, nightshade vehicles with stealth modes make every 'camouflage pattern' useless, and organic, self-expanding technology makes the static, stable, edgy bunker style obsolete. If you go with "military", you limit yourself to somehow human-modern designs and direct yourself automatically into the war game corner.

          UT is far in the future and has many alien cultures coming together. Human design influences should be in the proper relation to the amount of foreign cultures taking part in the tournament. I'm just saying I personally see any 'high cultural, supreme being' Necris as more interesting and UT fitting compared to any 'military' (zombie/undead soldiers/...) army approach. Consistency is also very important to me and as I have said to Wail aswell, I don't accept the UT3 line getting trashed and ignored. We can bring their Necris style down to what older UT fans can still accept, but it has to be within line and modern and futuristic enough for a modern UT!

           
          Spoiler


          Punk is just not my taste and I just don't consider any punk style really elegant. And I very much liked the elegance, uniqueness and intelligence of UT3's Necris (even if they were a bit exaggerated with deco ). If you want a 'brute troop', like the UT99 Black Legion Necris were, I can understand that aswell of course and would say then we need both of these two Necris factions at least.

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            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
            Imho, you're limited in mind to earthly military, Fartuess. Military is always camou and edgy/industrial, because it's our modern human technology!
            Wrong! it is camou because you want it to be less visible it have reasons to be that way and if there were humans on other planet they would certainly came up with same idea independently. Edgy and Industrial - it's just dictated by money efficiency. When in face of huge war (human-skaarj war in case of Unreal) you don't care about weapons being flashy and stylish. You remove everything what is not neccessary, built it the most simple way, so it can be mass produced easily and fixed easily. Military is industrial in it's core when facing war.

            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
            It's what we have so far as most stable and disguised fighting architecture. UT3 Necris architecture was built in wild organic and fine structures, but agressive and menacingly expanding looking, too. Like a high cultured weed, growing over everything and supressing with its own style everything else. That's imperialistic and can aswell be called "futuristic military."
            It looked like royal palaces. I don't see mass production of weaponry with handcrafted leaf ornaments - sorry :P. Same for inustrial and military facilities.

            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
            In the far future, nightshade vehicles with stealth modes make every 'camouflage pattern' useless, and organic, self-expanding technology makes the static, stable, edgy bunker style obsolete.
            But the question is how expensive is stealth technology and how long person/vechicle can be hiden unders it's cloak. There might be such technology but it might not be viable for equipping army with it. This is the direction i'm personally interested. There is very high tech, but it's just too expensive to be used widely. Not everyone is wearing shieldbelt

            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
            If you go with "military", you limit yourself to somehow human-modern designs and direct yourself automatically into the war game corner.
            Actually not exactly. Modern military is efficient but it puts emhasis on quality now, while at times of war emphasis is put on low cost. Now add some futuristic tech like shock rifle and make weapon designed in such way that you go for lower cost. That was UT'99 shock rifle in a nutshell. UT4 takes place after some years passed without any big conflict (just few skirmishes between corporations, few lesser alie races were conquered etc) and Grand Tournament is place where ****load of many is being put, so weapons and armors are no longer budget military, allthough their source and past is there.

            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
            UT is far in the future and has many alien cultures coming together. Human design influences should be in the proper relation to the amount of foreign cultures taking part in the tournament.
            I agree.

            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
            I'm just saying I personally see any 'high cultural, supreme being' Necris as more interesting and UT fitting compared to any 'military' (zombie/undead soldiers/...) army approach. Consistency is also very important to me and as I have said to Wail aswell, I don't accept the UT3 line getting trashed and ignored. We can bring their Necris style down to what older UT fans can still accept, but it has to be within line and modern and futuristic enough for a modern UT!
            But there will be incosistency either way. UT3 was inconsistent with previous UTs. UT2k3 was inconsitent with UT'99 (UT2k4 fixed it later a bit). What i mean is that UT3 Necris were inconsistent with UT'99 Necris in the first place. Depending on our current decissions we will be either inconsistient with UT'99 or UT3. And as a bonus UT3 Necris desing lacks clarity and doesn't survive critique bombardment. I think there are things we can took from them, but i don't think that it is religious cult, architecture style or their own military technology (like vechicles)

            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
             
            Spoiler


            Punk is just not my taste and I just don't consider any punk style really elegant. And I very much liked the elegance, uniqueness and intelligence of UT3's Necris (even if they were a bit exaggerated with deco ). If you want a 'brute troop', like the UT99 Black Legion Necris were, I can understand that aswell of course and would say then we need both of these two Necris factions at least.
            We're not even on the same page. I don't want Necris to look anything like that. I meant cyberpunk as a literatur/movie/game genre. Have you watched Matrix? Have you played Deus Ex: Human Revolution? People there are not even close to looking like people from images you posted. And i'm more into soft cyberpunk stylization rather than going nuts. I'm more interested in fleshing out corporations.
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              Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
              Wrong! it is camou because you want it to be less visible it have reasons to be that way and if there were humans on other planet they would certainly came up with same idea independently. Edgy and Industrial - it's just dictated by money efficiency. When in face of huge war (human-skaarj war in case of Unreal) you don't care about weapons being flashy and stylish. You remove everything what is not neccessary, built it the most simple way, so it can be mass produced easily and fixed easily. Military is industrial in it's core when facing war.
              [...]
              But the question is how expensive is stealth technology and how long person/vechicle can be hiden unders it's cloak. There might be such technology but it might not be viable for equipping army with it. This is the direction i'm personally interested. There is very high tech, but it's just too expensive to be used widely. Not everyone is wearing shieldbelt
              [...]
              Actually not exactly. Modern military is efficient but it puts emhasis on quality now, while at times of war emphasis is put on low cost. Now add some futuristic tech like shock rifle and make weapon designed in such way that you go for lower cost. That was UT'99 shock rifle in a nutshell. UT4 takes place after some years passed without any big conflict (just few skirmishes between corporations, few lesser alie races were conquered etc) and Grand Tournament is place where ****load of many is being put, so weapons and armors are no longer budget military, allthough their source and past is there.
              Where do you know from when UT4 plays? Can't be right a few years after UT99, I must remind you, there were 3 newer UTs in between. And you apparently don't see how you're exactly limiting yourself in what "military" is because of what modern human technology and factories can do. All your assumptions here dont count for wars and armys of the future! They might have endless energy for their invisibility and enough material for an organic production which doesn't have to be edgy and reduced to the minimum like human construction at this age. You build your idea of 'military' just on modern technological possibilities. UT99 was too unfuturistic because the models had to be boxy, not because that's how they thought weapons are going to be designed for all times and by all species.

              Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
              It looked like royal palaces. I don't see mass production of weaponry with handcrafted leaf ornaments - sorry :P. Same for inustrial and military facilities.
              No, it looked (among other things) aswell like a religious sanctuary, but not anything royal. Thinking all alien species in thousands of years from now need to be as economical with materials and shapes as we do now is really absurd. Plus, I don't mind cutting back the religious cultist treat or whatever else wasn't too popular in UT3 Necris, but nanoblack making them into arrogant supreme beings is a must for me. If you have millions of nanotech robots improving your body, you must feel special.

              Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
              But there will be incosistency either way. UT3 was inconsistent with previous UTs. UT2k3 was inconsitent with UT'99 (UT2k4 fixed it later a bit). What i mean is that UT3 Necris were inconsistent with UT'99 Necris in the first place. Depending on our current decissions we will be either inconsistient with UT'99 or UT3. And as a bonus UT3 Necris desing lacks clarity and doesn't survive critique bombardment. I think there are things we can took from them, but i don't think that it is religious cult, architecture style or their own military technology (like vechicles)
              Oh, you shouldn't have said vehicles. That's gameplay relevant for modern vehicle UT and a lot of us who didn't boycott UT3 for minor reasons love the unique Necris vehicles for the gameplay alone, that's not just a matter of taste and visuals! This was a gameplay success and has to return. And if you finally acknowledge that there can be various very different Necris factions like I'm suggesting all the time, maybe you can understand that if UT4 featured both my religious supreme being Necris and your Black Legion mercenary/soldier Necris, the new UT would be consistent to both UT99 and UT3!

              Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
              We're not even on the same page. I don't want Necris to look anything like that. I meant cyberpunk as a literatur/movie/game genre. Have you watched Matrix? Have you played Deus Ex: Human Revolution? People there are not even close to looking like people from images you posted. And i'm more into soft cyberpunk stylization rather than going nuts. I'm more interested in fleshing out corporations.
              Well then don't ask for punk. Perna's new zombie soldier Necris concept is clearly goth- (or necro-)punk, Hellions of UT2004 are clearly cyberpunk. I know some ppl call everything which is futuristic 'cyberpunk', but Matrix and Deus Ex aren't cyberpunk at all, they're just futuristic. I'm happy with that. I don't like real cyberpunk, which means really freaky wild style futuristic with neon colors, mohican haircuts and whatnot.
              Last edited by TheoRiginal; 03-18-2015, 06:46 PM.

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                Could we keep the male and female closer in size?

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                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  Where do you know from when UT4 plays? Can't be right a few years after UT99, I must remind you, there were 3 newer UTs in between.
                  I think pretty much how long it was from UT'99 release. 10 - 15 years, or something like that. UT'99 competitors are still in the tournament and not busy with grandfather responsibilities .

                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  And you apparently don't see how you're exactly limiting yourself in what "military" is because of what modern human technology and factories can do. All your assumptions here dont count for wars and armys of the future!
                  My assumption is that human soldiers and tanks and air fighters are still viable. If we push too far, then there is no armies of the future as every a bit bigger conflict is solved with surgerically precise weapon of mass destruction (intelligent missle barrage from the orbit, dropping genetic bomb killing only Skaarj and nothing else, or nanite bomb). And Human-Skaarj conflict was not solved that way from what i know. I try to think that UT humanity has developed some technologies further while other ones are underdeveloped comparing to what we have in real life. This should produce significant differences from what we call modern military.


                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  They might have endless energy for their invisibility and enough material for an organic production which doesn't have to be edgy and reduced to the minimum like human construction at this age. You build your idea of 'military' just on modern technological possibilities. UT99 was too unfuturistic because the models had to be boxy, not because that's how they thought weapons are going to be designed for all times and by all species.
                  There are better ways of using large amounts of energy than giving every infantry soldier cloaking device which will be countered instantly by giving every soldier on opposite side much much cheaper termovision goggles. UT'99 Boxiness influenced it's design, but imo it came up pretty nicely. In my personal opinion limitations are source of creativity as they block obvious and simpliest paths and force to create something else.

                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  No, it looked (among other things) aswell like a religious sanctuary, but not anything royal.
                  It may be religious sanctuary then. The point is that this is not future military.

                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  Thinking all alien species in thousands of years from now need to be as economical with materials and shapes as we do now is really absurd.
                  Even in UT3 scenario Necris are not that old humanity offspring. If earth-humanity is still in quite classic industrial era, then where is source of so rapid technological development of Necris? Pretty much the only explaination is that Nanoblack is alien nanovirus and all those ancient building were built by aliens and necris vechiles are alien tech too. Personally i don't like this idea too much. And where is Phayder corporation in it? Was their members victims of nanovirus? It makes sense, but i don't like putting far more advanced aliens, where humanity related things are spotlighted.

                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  Plus, I don't mind cutting back the religious cultist treat or whatever else wasn't too popular in UT3 Necris, but nanoblack making them into arrogant supreme beings is a must for me.
                  Pretty much same here.

                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  If you have millions of nanotech robots improving your body, you must feel special.
                  Depends from side effects of nanoblack. You feel a bit special, but you might not like everything in it. I like to think that nanoblack is quite new an imperfect technology and appearance and personality changes come from that.

                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  Oh, you shouldn't have said vehicles. That's gameplay relevant for modern vehicle UT and a lot of us who didn't boycott UT3 for minor reasons love the unique Necris vehicles for the gameplay alone, that's not just a matter of taste and visuals! This was a gameplay success and has to return.
                  Putting aside fact that i don't like vechicle gametypes that much. Vechicles like Dark Walker can exist in the game, but i would like them to be specialized human vechicle made for hard terrain combat rather than alien vechicles which have weird legs, because it is alien. And as a bonus you can now use dark walkers and raptors on the same side.

                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  And if you finally acknowledge that there can be various very different Necris factions like I'm suggesting all the time, maybe you can understand that if UT4 featured both my religious supreme being Necris and your Black Legion mercenary/soldier Necris, the new UT would be consistent to both UT99 and UT3!
                  But those two groups will be inconsistent with each other - still an issue.

                  Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                  Well then don't ask for punk. Perna's new zombie soldier Necris concept is clearly goth- (or necro-)punk, Hellions of UT2004 are clearly cyberpunk. I know some ppl call everything which is futuristic 'cyberpunk', but Matrix and Deus Ex aren't cyberpunk at all, they're just futuristic. I'm happy with that. I don't like real cyberpunk, which means really freaky wild style futuristic with neon colors, mohican haircuts and whatnot.
                  I dont ask for punks.
                  Just say that Blade Runner and Ghost In The Shell are not cyberpunk and you will decline all most notable cyberpunk examples. Hellions from UT2k4 were not cyberpunk. As for "freaky wild style futuristic with neon colors, mohican haircuts and whatnot" this is retro 80s cyberpunk (And that was poor side of community fighting with corporations). I'm more interested in retro 90s cyberpunk with some later influences. I look more for long black coats and sunglasses .

                  Anyway. Some examples of "modern cyberpunk" clothing (note that this is not exactly what i want as i want UT to be influenced with 90s cyberpunk not being it entirely):


                  and guy from Epics Samaritian demo (this whole demo shouted CYBERPUNK by the way )


                  And gril you posted. I found simmiliar images, but it seems to be called Cybergoth
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                    I really don't get the long fingernails on the model.. why?

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                      omg we have really different taste. That matrix trenchcoat sunglasses look is horrible imo. I'd call that "soft-goth."
                      I could only accept a cool "Blade" style as compromise between matrix and vampiry, but not fully "Neo".

                      And there must have passed more years than in reallife between the games, UT gladiators don't age that much because they were constantly splattered and then respawned to their previous state.
                      No seriously, Epic should give us their whole UT lore from UT99 to UT3 and only then we could make sense how the next UT should be and fix consistency problems.

                      Why would it be inconsistent if there are many different Necris factions? Especially if more time passed between the games' events! Phayder could have started with low nanoblack treatment on dumped or dying mercenaries which ended in their Black Legion Assassins, which they used for contract killing business ('99) while another nanoblack experiment on a planet with strong nanoblack treatment (or different nanoblack programming) ended with cultist fanatic Necris species who build up an own culture so fast, that Phayder lost control over them and their invasion attempts to earth happened (UT3). Those events are also way in the past for the new UT(4), the UT3-Necris government has been beaten from within by the Ronin (could be the intro featuring the fate of Jester ) and Phayder changed their nanobots programming which gives them a new appearance (Gooba style or as the UT3 fans wish) and less imperialistic tendencies. Phayder's Black Legion Assassins Necris can be untouched of the events among the other Necris and underwent a couple of own changes (as the UT99 fans wish). The bloody tournament between all galaxy's cultures is back up!

                      The story can be totally brought into consistency and take up all the best of every UT generation! But I'm afraid we're relaunching the whole thing, as if this UT was the very first UT. All story and advanced functions from newer UTs lost and to be reinvented? That's not my way, I'm for improvement and expansion on what we have come already so far. If it's so good, better fix it than starting from 0 again, my opinion. Batman relaunch also didn't throw over everything the comic and previous films set, and when it did, fans were unhappy.

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                        Actually, what if...

                        [spoiler alert]

                        ...Reaper had to resurrect Jester (his dead sister at the end of UT3) with Necris technology, so that... yes...
                        ...Jester became the new strong Necris Amazon!?

                        I'd love to see art work and story ideas going with this direction and iterating what would have happened to them with such a strong but peaceful human woman.
                        Would be cheap of course if the nanoblack rules over every creature totally and she becomes just the next Akasha.

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                          Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                          omg we have really different taste. That matrix trenchcoat sunglasses look is horrible imo. I'd call that "soft-goth."
                          Soft goth? Why?!?

                          Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                          I could only accept a cool "Blade" style as compromise between matrix and vampiry, but not fully "Neo".
                          I just wanted to explain what type of cyberpunk is closer to what i have in mind. And note that i'm interested in cyberpunk influences, not going all in. So no Neo

                          I though about something even less "matrixy" than Blade. You can add a bit of "heavy metal" and "ocultic/weird religion" things. Weird silver medalions and accessories. And maybe trousers like these:

                          But again... it should depend of the taste of particular Necris. Not all of them have to be "cyberpunk-heavy metal goth vampires". But they should be strong and independent characters and this should be visible through their look.

                          Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                          And there must have passed more years than in reallife between the games, UT gladiators don't age that much because they were constantly splattered and then respawned to their previous state.
                          No seriously, Epic should give us their whole UT lore from UT99 to UT3 and only then we could make sense how the next UT should be and fix consistency problems.
                          But we don't know how respawners work exactly. UT3 idea for respawners wasn't good and even Epic admitted it (additionally what is point of Necris immortality if respawners work better?). I would rather go for something like we saw at movie Avatar - in case of UT it would be owner clones/replications controlled by competitors. Replications would be unstable and would die lets say after few hours (or their aging would be dramatically quickly) making their use very limited. Certainly not giving immortality or giving never ending youth.

                          Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                          Why would it be inconsistent if there are many different Necris factions? Especially if more time passed between the games' events! Phayder could have started with low nanoblack treatment on dumped or dying mercenaries which ended in their Black Legion Assassins, which they used for contract killing business ('99) while another nanoblack experiment on a planet with strong nanoblack treatment (or different nanoblack programming) ended with cultist fanatic Necris species who build up an own culture so fast, that Phayder lost control over them and their invasion attempts to earth happened (UT3).
                          What is "building culture fast"? So fast you can't nuke it? :P. Phayder are not noobs and they have means of preventing and handling such problems. Who would be so careless about that dangerous experiments? And btw. Necris did not attacked Earth, but some planet controlled by Izanagi corporation.

                          Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                          Those events are also way in the past for the new UT(4), the UT3-Necris government has been beaten from within by the Ronin (could be the intro featuring the fate of Jester ) and Phayder changed their nanobots programming which gives them a new appearance (Gooba style or as the UT3 fans wish) and less imperialistic tendencies. Phayder's Black Legion Assassins Necris can be untouched of the events among the other Necris and underwent a couple of own changes (as the UT99 fans wish). The bloody tournament between all galaxy's cultures is back up!
                          I'm still not convinced by Necris army/society. But it's matter of taste.


                          Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                          The story can be totally brought into consistency and take up all the best of every UT generation! But I'm afraid we're relaunching the whole thing, as if this UT was the very first UT. All story and advanced functions from newer UTs lost and to be reinvented? That's not my way, I'm for improvement and expansion on what we have come already so far. If it's so good, better fix it than starting from 0 again, my opinion. Batman relaunch also didn't throw over everything the comic and previous films set, and when it did, fans were unhappy.
                          UT lore is big mess now. Consistency is impossible, and even if it is... it would require keeping some bad ideas. I don't want to start from the beggining. Rather making some cleanup. Taking ideas which were good and which could be made consistent with the rest after some tweaks. Also i'm trying to create strong core, rather than collection of pieces. UT'99 had core, UT2k3 was collection of pieces (Digital Extremes fantasies :P), UT2k4 was collection of pieces with added pieces from UT'99 core. UT3 ignored existing of both UT'99 core and pieces from UT2k3. UT3 looked to be purposely inconsistent with its precedessors. While UC2 might added some interesting part into necris idea(Nanoblack)... UT3 ones... meh :P

                          Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                          Actually, what if...

                          [spoiler alert]

                          ...Reaper had to resurrect Jester (his dead sister at the end of UT3) with Necris technology, so that... yes...
                          ...Jester became the new strong Necris Amazon!?

                          I'd love to see art work and story ideas going with this direction and iterating what would have happened to them with such a strong but peaceful human woman.
                          Would be cheap of course if the nanoblack rules over every creature totally and she becomes just the next Akasha.
                          I could see Reaper being minor character in UT4 with some backstory related to events from UT3, but just as an easter egg. Description saying about Izanagi - Phayder conflict and death of Reapers sister. Maybe something with Malcolm being involved. Dunno.
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                            "Soft-Goth" because that Neo style is only the black trenchcoat like goths wear, but no long hair, make-up or trinklets, instead a trendy haircut and eventually sunglasses, which true goths would never wear (don't ask me why ).
                            Those pants aren't 'less than matrix' at all, they're pretty hardcore "goth-punk" (or "metal" aswell), definitely not "cyberpunk."
                            is even the name of the shop section where your image comes from.

                            Too bad you're pretty much like Wail, UT99 fanatics who want to wipe out everything with UT3 (or give it only a reference on easteregg level ). That's inacceptable for every UT3 fan of course.
                            I hope for some more iterations by Chris Perna, Gooba, Mangley and all the other great artists here which would respect all UT generations and unite us with a consistency to all of them.

                            P.S.:
                            Think about Jester's Necris
                            Last edited by TheoRiginal; 03-19-2015, 04:13 PM.

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                              Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                              Too bad you're pretty much like Wail, UT99 fanatics who want to wipe out everything with UT3 fans who want an internally consistent world that doesn't attempt to reinvent existing characters and factions into unrecognizable new versions every game
                              I fixed that for you Theo.
                              It's too bad you don't realize that I am absolutely for you being able to have a faction of advanced holier-than-thou cybernetic warriors in the tournament, but this isn't consistent with the overall character of the "Necris" so calling what you want "Necris" is just conceptually incompatible. Unfortunately you are unable to see how your own position undermines itself, since if it's okay to completely disregard the concept of a faction and reinvent it as whatever we like, then we can do anything we want... including turning cyborg Jihadis from space into military zombie policemen, or whatever. If we can turn an Apple into an Orange based purely on whimsical personal taste, then why not turn that Orange into a Kiwi. The position you take has no ground to stand on since it's based on nothing more than your personal preference.

                              I don't have special attachments to the Necris characters but I think it's really disconcerting how much we try to deviate from the conceptual core of these guys when there is absolutely no reason to, we can just introduce new factions if we don't think the old ones are appropriate. The only stance that makes any sense to me is to understand where the Necris come from conceptually and try to align the art direction with that. I'm still not seeing that in these new Necris designs but based on Chris' comments of them only being 40% complete I'm hoping we can see some more iteration along the lines of what guys like Mangley and hi-ban have proposed in this thread.
                              Last edited by Wail; 03-19-2015, 04:55 PM.
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                                Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                                "Soft-Goth" because that Neo style is only the black trenchcoat like goths wear, but no long hair, make-up or trinklets, instead a trendy haircut and eventually sunglasses, which true goths would never wear (don't ask me why ).
                                Those pants aren't 'less than matrix' at all, they're pretty hardcore "goth-punk" (or "metal" aswell), definitely not "cyberpunk."
                                is even the name of the shop section where your image comes from.
                                You are starting to confuse me :P. Ok... very slowly... Neo is wearing black but he is not a goth. They are post 80s cyberpunk. Those pants are Goth Punk (and oldschool Necris had strong gothic vibe) but they are clearly not in Matrix style. The Gothic part is meant to differ them from classic 90's cyberpunk. But if you can't tell apart Gothpunk with Cyberpunk...

                                Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                                Too bad you're pretty much like Wail, UT99 fanatics who want to wipe out everything with UT3 (or give it only a reference on easteregg level ). That's inacceptable for every UT3 fan of course.
                                Just like UT3 wiped everything from UT'99 and UT2k4. Feel our pain! ;>

                                But honestly... UT3 is just neverending list of weird design choices and heresies aganist previous games. There's nothing strange in fact that UT'99 fans doesn't like that part. Gameplay wise UT3 was good, but designwise/storywise...

                                Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                                Think about Jester's Necris
                                I'm not impressed tbh. I see more potential in Reaper trying to get to Malcolm by participating in Tournament. Jester Necris might fall into one of two baskets. Either she will be pretty much same as before, what is not that interesting. Or she is other Necris with Jester backstory which doesn't make her impressive as a Necris.
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