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    I think that Epic staff feel like this when they enter this topic:
    http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/aWWL2B3_460sv.mp4

    Originally posted by Wail View Post
    To me it stretches credibility to posit we have nanotechnology that can resurrect the dead, but to give them any of the unique identifying characteristics we associate with Necris (whether psychological or visual). To me this is a big glaring problem that really has never been addressed. When you pull back the curtain to reveal the explanation to a mystery, that explanation has to make sense or the reveal is pointless. Nanoblack, as an 'explanation' offers us nothing and, at least to me is contradictory with the general behavior we'd expect from having effective nanotechnology.
    Personally i accept nanoblack. It can bridge UT'99 and UC2 Necris concept and not deny UT3 Necris from the start (which would be heartbreaking for TheoRiginal ). We can move mystery somewhere else. I was writing few months ago that nanoblack and necrification could affect and evolve personality of those who are ressurected and if we put emphasis on wide variety of strong personalities with back stories of Necris team members and make "What happened in their mind after Necrification" a mystery. Although if we are not going to replace previous mystery with new one, then revealing their only secret is kinda disapointing.

    Originally posted by Wail View Post
    Why would someone whose entire body could be reshaped at a microscopic level have obvious shunts and wires coming out of their body (clear vulnerable spots)? Why would they want to retain a distinctive visual appearance that helps others identify their otherwise invisible capabilities? The explaneations Chris has offered sound neat as in, "Oh yeah, stealth mode, cool!" but fall flat when you actually think about them because thy are reasoning backwards from the premise that these guys have these features and then trying to explain why these features exist, rather than thinking about how we can expect this technology to actually behave* and extrapolating from that.
    Agreed. Current nanoblack seems technically advanced enough to render mechanical parts pointless. I would make nanoblack uncapable of changing body of people who use it (black "paint" in current designs). It should only replace body fluids and help cells come back to live. Transporting oxygen, nutritients, fighting of germs, heal minor wounds (scratches) and be flawed with transporting hormones (which alters personality). Basically enchanced cyberblood in alpha stage of development .

    Originally posted by Blackcrack View Post
    Hi,

    and by the way, wth it's wrong with this necris, ?
    In comparrision with official male one - nothing. The thing is that we're still not sure if we're liking official one
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      Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
      Personally i accept nanoblack. It can bridge UT'99 and UC2 Necris concept and not deny UT3 Necris from the start (which would be heartbreaking for TheoRiginal ). We can move mystery somewhere else. I was writing few months ago that nanoblack and necrification could affect and evolve personality of those who are ressurected and if we put emphasis on wide variety of strong personalities with back stories of Necris team members and make "What happened in their mind after Necrification" a mystery. Although if we are not going to replace previous mystery with new one, then revealing their only secret is kinda disapointing.
      To me this isn't really satisfying since the behavior of technology is predictable and correctable. What you're essentially looking for is a god of the gaps explanation for why we have this faction of antisocial badasses. It's statistically improbable (verging on impossible) for nanomachines that are rewiring neurons in the brain to magically turn every person undergoing the Necrification process into a psychopathic killer with an affinity for black by mistake.

      Given that it's statistically improbable that this is the only 'success' result, then clearly there must be other results. Who are they? How do they differ from the Necris we know? Is there any faction identity left in the word 'Necris' when the process we're using to identify a 'Necris' is likely to look and behave entirely differently from a 'Necris'?

      Furthermore we can also believe that for the most part, the mental side effects of the Necrification process are probably not intentional. Which tells us that the 'Necris' we know are essentially a fraction of the failed byproducts of this technology. Not exactly the coolest backstory for these guys. If we advance the timeline 50-100 years, are the Necris basically the obsolete castoffs of a brighter nanotechnology-infused future?*


      * This actually sounds like an interesting and semi-tragic story to tell, but it's also one that's not terribly suitable for UT or what I'd like to see done with the Necris in-universe.
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        Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
        Agreed. Current nanoblack seems technically advanced enough to render mechanical parts pointless. I would make nanoblack uncapable of changing body of people who use it (black "paint" in current designs). It should only replace body fluids and help cells come back to live. Transporting oxygen, nutritients, fighting of germs, heal minor wounds (scratches) and be flawed with transporting hormones (which alters personality). Basically enchanced cyberblood in alpha stage of development .
        ^This makes more sense.
        I thought about the black skin parts as some kind of makeup, some kind of tribal painting.
        But this Borg-like mechanical parts are unnecessary and are too much in the direction of the Strogg from Quake4
        ,,|,.............................................................................................coffee addicted !!!

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          Originally posted by Wail View Post
          To me this isn't really satisfying since the behavior of technology is predictable and correctable.
          But it's interation with biological living being is way harder to correct.

          Originally posted by Wail View Post
          What you're essentially looking for is a god of the gaps explanation for why we have this faction of antisocial badasses. It's statistically improbable (verging on impossible) for nanomachines that are rewiring neurons in the brain to magically turn every person undergoing the Necrification process into a psychopathic killer with an affinity for black by mistake.
          I would blaim personality changes not on nanoblack itself but changed hormone economy. It might be problem caused by nanoblack not being capable of transporting it properly, maybe damaged organs which produce it. Maybe damaged brain cells which weren't revived fully. Perosnality changes can be cused directly by brain damage or indirectly by damaging parts responsible for production of some hormones. And they don't have to be psychopats wanting to kill people. I was rather thinking that because of a bit broken hormone economy they don't feel excitement and passion most of the time just by feel, and they are compensating it with "emulating" it with concious thinking and making it exaggerated, so they are closer to really feeling it. That would make them individual, interesting, passionate and at the same time making their passions a bit weird and cold. And you can have necris who were resurected very soon after death, so brain damage was easeir to repair properly. I'm just looking for to reasonably unify UT'99 - UC2 lore concept while both keeping UT'99/UC2 style of Necris and allowing very wide range of designs. Also final explaination of how it works doesn't have to be directly explained in the game itself - we can make it a bit uncertain and foggy. And affinity for black is harder to explain though, we just keep it because it was always part of design of this faction .

          Originally posted by Wail View Post
          Given that it's statistically improbable that this is the only 'success' result, then clearly there must be other results. Who are they? How do they differ from the Necris we know? Is there any faction identity left in the word 'Necris' when the process we're using to identify a 'Necris' is likely to look and behave entirely differently from a 'Necris'?
          I rather think that current state is still very early version, but one successful enough to be used and sold to customers. Previous specimens either died, or went completely insane and were killed by Phayder before they left labs. Thats at least one variant i see.

          Originally posted by Wail View Post
          Furthermore we can also believe that for the most part, the mental side effects of the Necrification process are probably not intentional. Which tells us that the 'Necris' we know are essentially a fraction of the failed byproducts of this technology. Not exactly the coolest backstory for these guys. If we advance the timeline 50-100 years, are the Necris basically the obsolete castoffs of a brighter nanotechnology-infused future?*
          I think rather that they are products of the firsts successful iterations of nanoblack which have quite high success rate in resurecting compared to previous ones, so Necris team members are not experiment specimens (which were just regular criminals i guess), but spacewide known mercenaries and assassins which Phayder permanently hired by resurecting them after death. I guess you can name them byproducts as technology is yet far from being perfect, but a guy who died killing the whole crew of NEG Cruiser on a suicide mission, and then resurected to work for a shady corporation is pretty badass byproduct . Also i would make Phayder sell Necrification service as some form of ridicolously expensive life insurance targeted at the most rich of the rich already. And they also "hire" the best mercenaries to either serve them as spec-ops in corporation wars or "advertise" Necrification service by participating in tournament. And by the way - i would make Phayder leaders regular non-necris humans, because they know tech is not yet good enough to just kill yourself, so you could be resurected as Necris (Necris Liches would be badass though ).

          Originally posted by Wail View Post
          * This actually sounds like an interesting and semi-tragic story to tell, but it's also one that's not terribly suitable for UT or what I'd like to see done with the Necris in-universe.
          I think i made it a bit less tragedic and a bit more badass now... hopefully.

          Originally posted by papercoffee View Post
          ^
          I thought about the black skin parts as some kind of makeup, some kind of tribal painting.
          And that would allow them to show that owner made them willingfully and type of tattoo/tribal painting/makeup will allow to express their personality in some way. I like using it to describe more specific characters than whole faction as appearance changes made by the person itself add variance inside faction and are stronger in indirect narration.

          Originally posted by papercoffee View Post
          But this Borg-like mechanical parts are unnecessary and are too much in the direction of the Strogg from Quake4
          I agree that they are to much stroggy at the moment. My idea would be that nanoblack itself is enough to keep Necris living, however some of them might had their bodies (limbs and internal organs) severely damaged, so cell/tissue regeneration is not enough. Then cybernetic prosthesis make sense. But pipes on every necris are weird when nanoblack was meant to flow through veins.
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            Personally, I don't care if they're goth, punk, or circus clowns, as long as they can pull off looking like professional assassins. They're a security force known for their skill as assassins.

            Not all Necris have to have nanoblack. Chris's current take is that those with Nanoblack can divert the fluid to the surface of their body, where it can form a hardened matrix that acts like armor. In that regard, I can see how the cybernetics and exterior tubing makes sense: they can have nanoblack armor, but not nanoblack blood - or enhance their armor with their internal nanoblack.

            The black fluid had a greenish tinge in UT3, and a reddish tinge in UC2. We can offset the black with pretty much any color we want, honestly.
            Jim Brown
            @EntropicDev
            Epic Games

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              Originally posted by Entropy View Post
              Personally, I don't care if they're goth, punk, or circus clowns, as long as they can pull off looking like professional assassins. They're a security force known for their skill as assassins.

              Not all Necris have to have nanoblack. Chris's current take is that those with Nanoblack can divert the fluid to the surface of their body, where it can form a hardened matrix that acts like armor. In that regard, I can see how the cybernetics and exterior tubing makes sense: they can have nanoblack armor, but not nanoblack blood - or enhance their armor with their internal nanoblack.

              The black fluid had a greenish tinge in UT3, and a reddish tinge in UC2. We can offset the black with pretty much any color we want, honestly.
              This might make things a little more clear. I didn't like the new necris when I first saw the concept, but I think that it looks good in-game and can totally exist within the unreal universe. It is just one character out of an entire team so if you don't like this one just pick (or create) another .

              There are some great concepts on this forum so why not focus on making one team of badasses with enough variety. The focus is a bit to much on this single character imo.

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                I'm either really brave or really stupid, but i'm going to discuss with another dev

                Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                Not all Necris have to have nanoblack.
                I would rather say than not all Phayder Assassins and Black Legion team members have to have nanoblack flowing through their veins. But having nanoblood make you count as one.

                Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                Chris's current take is that those with Nanoblack can divert the fluid to the surface of their body, where it can form a hardened matrix that acts like armor. In that regard, I can see how the cybernetics and exterior tubing makes sense: they can have nanoblack armor, but not nanoblack blood - or enhance their armor with their internal nanoblack.
                But with nanoblack crawling on their skin the look like victims of some aggresive disease. Leprosy isn't badass i think. And even this armor doesn't give much as having Crysis-like nanosuit would probably give much better results. Yeah... i know that i'm demanding from it having too much economical, sociological and scientifical sense.

                Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                The black fluid had a greenish tinge in UT3, and a reddish tinge in UC2. We can offset the black with pretty much any color we want, honestly.
                Pools of green nanoblack from UT3 looked like water from cesspool. I suggest choosing non-green color of black

                ...but still. You are devs and i don't even have single badge :P.
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                  only as note.. more and more i looking the old things and collecting together and i see they are old Pictures from the past,
                  more and more i see how huge it is have developed the Unreal Universum
                  and how huge it is grown with all the Fans and Developer, Player and and and it is....
                  from 1996 up to now.. and there it was build up an mass of avatars in different forms ,
                  for Unreal1, Unreal2MP, 2003,2004 and and and.. .. we should us not argue/fight ,
                  we should find an common Avatar for UT and also at end maybe also for Unreal Remake..

                  i suggest something like this.. we should looking on the from first Unreal where be include , rebuild it ..
                  in direction to "Back to the Root" ? Later it is ever possible for creating and using the aall other nice characters and Monsters,
                  but first, should we look to have an Consensus .. so well.. the Unreal where was at first into, take them and rebuild it.. and hold it original...alive

                  have anyone some Photo or Screenshoot..
                  ( i want not at all installing *lol* )

                  i guess, this is the best ..

                  best regards
                  Blacky
                  Last edited by Blackcrack; 04-21-2015, 07:24 AM.

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                    Creating Characters in UT4:
                    Click image for larger version

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                    I gotta admit though, I like all the feedback and theorizing from the developers and community.
                    Of course, there's no way everyone will be pleased, but it's good to see all of us so passionate and active.
                    -And I'm not even a fan of the necris.
                    3D Artist looking for work.

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                      Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                      Personally, I don't care if they're goth, punk, or circus clowns.
                      Well, maybe you don't care (which i respect), but many UT fans do care.

                      That said, after UT3 my expectations about a new UT game are quite low, so i wouldn't be surprised nor disappointed if the Necris end up being clowns in the new game...
                      Last edited by hi-ban; 04-22-2015, 01:28 PM.

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                        Originally posted by hi-ban View Post
                        Well, maybe you don't care (which i respect), but many UT fans do care.

                        That said, after UT3 my expectations about a new UT game are quite low, so i wouldn't be surprised nor disappointed if the Necris end up being clowns in the new game...
                        They don't need to now, they can be Nightmare, and if Mr Crow does not make an appearance in this game, it will be a sad day indeed.
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                          Originally posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
                          They don't need to now, they can be Nightmare, and if Mr Crow does not make an appearance in this game, it will be a sad day indeed.
                          I knew somebody would eventually get my reference. Should have guessed it would be Brizz.

                          Oh, and: https://learn.unrealtournament.com/t.../cosmetic-item
                          Jim Brown
                          @EntropicDev
                          Epic Games

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                            /me has immediate thoughts of making a Mr Crow Necris mask...
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                              why make a mask when you can get the character in, well once the master materials for the characters have the textures converted to parameters
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                                Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                                Personally, I don't care if they're goth, punk, or circus clowns, as long as they can pull off looking like professional assassins. They're a security force known for their skill as assassins.

                                Not all Necris have to have nanoblack. Chris's current take is that those with Nanoblack can divert the fluid to the surface of their body, where it can form a hardened matrix that acts like armor. In that regard, I can see how the cybernetics and exterior tubing makes sense: they can have nanoblack armor, but not nanoblack blood - or enhance their armor with their internal nanoblack.

                                The black fluid had a greenish tinge in UT3, and a reddish tinge in UC2. We can offset the black with pretty much any color we want, honestly.

                                I'd be happy if we stepped away from Nanoblack as the explanation for what a 'Necris' is, but I'm not sure what Epic is seeing as the core identity of the faction if we do so. Curious to hear this developed.





                                Originally posted by Hatseflatsie View Post
                                This might make things a little more clear. I didn't like the new necris when I first saw the concept, but I think that it looks good in-game and can totally exist within the unreal universe. It is just one character out of an entire team so if you don't like this one just pick (or create) another .

                                There are some great concepts on this forum so why not focus on making one team of badasses with enough variety. The focus is a bit to much on this single character imo.

                                Technically this is the only official character discussion thread, so we kind of see a lot of overall discussion here that's not suited to *a* character but more the general faction identity, backstory, lore, and relationship of art in this game to previous UT titles. If we get more insight into the process we can give more feedback on individual characters, but we really don't have that, so we can only talk about the one (~40% complete) character as a stand in for all the Necris faction characters.
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