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    #16
    Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
    I also agree with that, just that for you UT3 with its unique Necris design is no past game to be respected, which is equally inconsistent to me.
    I'm sorry, but I cannot read that with a straight face. UT3's necris did not look unique, they looked like humans with mechanical grafts, black armor and tribal markings. The biggest thing that defines the Necris is their pale white skin, from UT99 to UC2 they have skin as white as snow. Take what you will of the mechanical parts and tribal markings, but the Necris did not look like necris in UT3.

    UT4's design is the best of the past design while bringing the mechanical parts from UT3. I'm gonna stand by this design and say I like it.

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      #17
      1. You might not have liked the design of their technology/armor/face tribals in UT3, but they were as pale/white skinned as in all previous UTs.
      2. Uniqueness is no matter of taste, that's a factual question. You can't honestly think the pale, normal humans Necris of UT99, looking just like any random vampire human from Twilight, are as unique as the superior technology featured UT3 Necris with their unique organic-oriental technology design. You surely can prefer the old UT99 Necris, but thinking they're more unique is just a plain wrong assesment.

      But don't worry, Epic is apparently following the remake UT direction and you'll get your wish.
      You just have to hope that enough modern gamers dont mind the uniform retro/industrial/military design, because UT99 nostalgia players alone won't make this "new" UT a success yet.
      Last edited by TheoRiginal; 01-07-2015, 07:10 PM.

      My views on the new UT in a nutshell │ Social MarketplaceModern UT4 AllNew Dynamic StandardsMore iconic U and the 4 neededUE4 Free - I Epic

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        #18
        I have only one question...

        Are Necris now Borg in UT4?
        ,,|,.............................................................................................coffee addicted !!!

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          #19
          Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
          1. You might not have liked the design of their technology/armor/face tribals in UT3, but they were as pale/white skinned as in all previous UTs.
          2. Uniqueness is no matter of taste, that's a factual question. You can't honestly think the pale, normal humans Necris of UT99, looking just like any random vampire human from Twilight, are as unique as the superior technology featured UT3 Necris with their unique organic-oriental technology design. You surely can prefer the old UT99 Necris, but thinking they're more unique is just a plain wrong assesment.

          But don't worry, Epic is apparently following the remake UT direction and you'll get your wish.
          You just have to hope that enough modern gamers dont mind the uniform retro/industrial/military design, because UT99 nostalgia players alone won't make this "new" UT a success yet.
          1: Akasha's Skin is not pale, it's normal looking besides the grafts and tribal markings: This is what a normal Necris looks like from UT99-UC2. Using Irsh's pic as an example.



          So saying UT3's Necris were pale is a load of crock. :P


          2: Perhaps "unique" isn't the right word I'll give you that. Perhaps the word or words should be "As the same as the other humans."


          Believe what you will, mate. Just stating my observations.
          Attached Files

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            #20
            Just wanted to give my humble opinion:
            This Cyber-Zombie characters are actually very nice... for a new faction. But honestly, they do not look anything like the Necris we all love.

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              #21
              Chris these designs are really excellent and spot on for what I think of as a natural evolution of what the UT99 Necris Mercenary look would be today. I'm sad to see people arguing here and getting hung up on previous incarnations of what the Necris looked like instead of contributing.

              I was thinking about some ideas for attachments / details that would make sense and fit with the Necris Phayder technology and ended up mocking some up. I was thinking if Nano Black can re-animate dead tissue what happens if tissue is missing or destroyed on death? It made sense to me that Phaydercorp would have bionic implants to replace missing tissues, that work with the Nano Black to replace organs or limbs which Nano Black can't reconstruct.



              I played around a little with having geometric shaped patches for the Nano Black showing through the skin. It looks a little bit tribal but could be just arrangements that the Nano Black has a propensity to form in.

              Just throwing these out here for now, I'd like to do some further mock-ups on the female that I'll Edit into this post later.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Mangley; 01-07-2015, 10:40 PM.

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                #22
                These are phenomenal updates to the Necris -- my only feedback is, a little too heavy on the mechanical parts. They do look more like Borg/Robots than they do "Re-Animated" people, it's a bit transhumanist, although -- I suppose reanimating the dead is transhumanist, they just look like they come from Deus Ex or Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines.

                Tone back the metal a bit, make it very subtle and you've got winner designs.

                You either have to go with Shiny Black as an additive or machines as an additive, but to do both steps us too far out of the previous molds for Necris that they don't really represent the franchise.

                The Shiny black compliments the pale skin IMO, so I'd go with shiny black/minimal mechanical work, just to repair broken parts, no "Upgrades" like bionic legs or eyes or anything like that, that starts to lean on Liandri's robots too much.

                Necris Phayder Tech shouldn't look like repurposed Liandri tech. The above concepts with the borg eyes and metal jaw replacements and stuff look too much like Robots and not enough like Re-Animated Undead. They are called the necris because it's "Future" necromancy, necro = dead tissue. Robots aren't tissue. Straying from the core concept of the Necris completely.
                Last edited by Laokin; 01-07-2015, 11:10 PM.

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                  #23
                  @SX: You got there a very red toned picture from the char selection but it still shows a bit she's more pale than normal humans.
                  If you check them ingame, all Necris are really pale. You didn't like their design nevertheless? Sure that's a matter of taste. For me they only had a bit too bulky gear (GoW resemblance).


                  @Mangley: Really nice concepts for recreated tech organs! I dont want to argue in this design thread nor am I hung up on UT3's Necris design btw, I just wanted to share my opinion because I'd prefer seing an evolvement from their latest look in the new design for consistency reasons mainly. I genrally prefer well improved successors over complete reboots for all good things, it's nice to see an evolution imo. And I would miss that image of supreme beings UT3's Necris gave. Undead mercenaries like the old Necris didn't appear to me superior to humans and thatfor just not as impressive.
                  Last edited by TheoRiginal; 01-08-2015, 12:23 PM.

                  My views on the new UT in a nutshell │ Social MarketplaceModern UT4 AllNew Dynamic StandardsMore iconic U and the 4 neededUE4 Free - I Epic

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                    @SX: You got there a very red toned picture from the char selection but it still shows a bit she's more pale than normal humans.
                    If you check them ingame, all Necris are really pale. You didn't like their design nevertheless? Sure that's a matter of taste. For me they only had a bit too bulky gear (GoW resemblance).

                    Pic's broken. But i'm not gonna argue much longer, at this point it's just a matter of taste.

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                      #25
                      I'll guess I'll post this here aswell.
                      To the people talking about a lack of charcter, It's something I had recognised also but its quite easily rectified if you use this as a BASE to build upon.



                      Some quick ideas I put down to add different character and personality to the original sketch.
                      My point is that it doesn't take much to add abit of flair to a character.



                      And they can end up feeling very different.
                      Last edited by Chong; 01-08-2015, 02:18 PM.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
                        Personally i'm not convinced by this design direction for necris. UT'99 Vampire/Goth direction suggested that Necris are people with strongly developed individuality. Current direction makes necris into an army of characterless zombies where single one of them is not very different from other one. Faction 'essence' too rigid, not much space for concept variation. Good for meatshield enemies for next Gears but not very much for character people would play as. Anyway... here is copypasta from other thread.
                        Originally posted by Fartuess View Post
                        For me necris shouldn't be mindless zombie-punk-cyborgs made by big corporation to fill their army and start a cult. For me Necris should be small group of inviduals who were rich enough or who made deals with phayder corp, so they could go through very expensive process of bringing them back to live after death causing accidents. Phayder could actually be company completely made from alive non-necris people who are making crapload of money on bringing people back to life without any religious theme behind it. Members of Necris in such scenario would be people coming from different places with main thing connecting them being debt to phayder corp which they are paying by participating in tournament (Unless they were rich enough themselves or had someone else wishing to pay for their reincarnation. In such case we can have Necris people in such team as Thunder Crash or Juggernaut as well).

                        Other thing worth consideration is how fact of being Necris affect peoples mind. We could assume that their hormone system is not working in normal way, so they can't feel passion to something "from heart" and lack of it annoys them and forces it to emulate it "from mind" which lead them to develop different obsessions. Thats why they are into goth or tribal or punk or medievalistic (Nercis who is into swords and such wearing chest platemail ftw) or militiary or whatever interesting you can figure out. This would make the diverse group of strong interesting individuals instead of army of clones and allow wide range of designs which could satisfy more people. Give them some character and individuality.

                        For the nanoblack affecting their appearance beyond white skin, black blood and changed eyes. Adding nanoblack tinted skin limits freedom of interesting designs. I would rather create one Necris with skull like tattos. For cybernetics - i would add them to some of them because their bodies were heavily damaged in incidents which cuased their death.

                        For aspect of mystery of Necris. I would keep nanoblack as most noticeable part of Necrifying someone. The mystery would come from rest of aspects of turning someone into necris (in lore give questions, but not answers), way how it changes people personality and motvation and details of phayder corp (why alive people are doing it and what they want from people who they are having special deals with).

                        Also not all of necris have to wear black and be an outcast (i guess people would be rather afriad of them). There could be one who have rich and colourful personality and is a cool dude. Just to add more depth to this subrace and show that there are always exceptions.


                        Originally posted by Wail View Post
                        I agree with this.
                        For me the UT3 influence is still too strong on these guys
                        ....turning the Necris into just robot-zombie armymen.

                        Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                        First I must say that's an amazing art design for a zombie army.
                        They look like dead serious undead army soldiers.
                        They just dont match my ideal image of the Necris.

                        Wow,
                        I never realized all that until it was pointed out.
                        I actually agree with these and I think I understand why.

                        First of Chris, as a fellow artist I LOVE your take on the necris.
                        They're fantastic, but the ut3 necris and this concept lacks something the original UT99 necris had.
                        I think it's mainly the eyes and lack of expression.
                        These new necris have an intelligent, "superior than thou so we look down upon you" look that the UT3 version had and UT99 versions didn't have.
                        They even look like they can use the UT3 voice packs.


                        The UT99 faction was just another group that taunted, danced, and were "in it to win it" just like any other faction.
                        They didn't LOOK like they were looking for converts, or had "seen the light", which is the vibe the new designs and the UT3 versions give off.

                        I think this is the simplest way I can put it:

                        Click image for larger version

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                        BUT TO REITERATE:
                        I LOVE the new necris designs, cables, wires n all, FROM THE NECK DOWN.
                        Just give them a more "My head's in the game like every other combatant, now excuse me while I figure out how to frag dis b****" look and you're fine in my book.

                        Personally, and I don't know how many would agree (if any) I would use this as a ref sheet for necris.
                        Click image for larger version

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                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by CognizanCe1; 01-08-2015, 04:42 PM.
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                          #27
                          Is it only me or are peoples trying to change great
                          old UT into a chicky cartoon show or something?
                          GOod STUff HERe <<

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Psychomorph View Post
                            I like the concept. I like the industrial fashion style. I imagined a more medieval-ish inspired design, but I like that it's a more industrial cyborg type of thing a lot. No shame in progressing character concept from the original.
                            Original Necris have been dark, too.
                            Why not both? My point is that we can define what is to be necris in such way that it is more subtle and elastic allowing characters looking like current concept with UT'99 ish as well.

                            Originally posted by Chris Perna View Post
                            They will show up in game just fine.

                            They will not be "mindless or characterless".

                            They will have unique and powerful personalities and will be fun to play and play against.

                            -Chris
                            As someone from central/eastern europe i have tendency of not believing when someone says that everything will be great if my gut tells something else . Not saying that this is untrue though. I just think that Necris have a lot more potential to just take straight path when designing them. Anyway... you're the boss here

                            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                            2. Uniqueness is no matter of taste, that's a factual question. You can't honestly think the pale, normal humans Necris of UT99, looking just like any random vampire human from Twilight, are as unique as the superior technology featured UT3 Necris with their unique organic-oriental technology design. You surely can prefer the old UT99 Necris, but thinking they're more unique is just a plain wrong assesment.
                            Well... overally Necris faction from UT'99 was not that well defined as UT3 one. But for me first lose approach is better. If you throw too much uniqueness and minor details into the faction it will be waaaaay harder to break through this layer of necris features with concrete members of the team. They will just end up being same because faction traits will be in foreground while personal traits in background... and it should be the other way around.

                            Just look at the following image.


                            UT3 Necris looks all the same despite looking different, while UT'99 Necris looks different despite looking all the same. What i mean? UT3 Necris are bald older guy with necris traits, white/asian girl with necris traits and black girl with necris traits. And all of them seems to have same personality of being religious fanatic who look down on everybody else. UT'99 Necris actually seem to have different personalities just by looking on their faces. And it is even more visible because armor design is simplier.

                            ... and the worst thing is putting so much detail onto faction design and their armour, so it starts to be read as noise while covering personal traits. In case of UT3 almost every faction had this issue and only unique characters fitting the design space of UT3 were Malcolm and Rankin... if you downloaded them. And this noise / covering issue is even more visible if you put 10 characters from different factions into one match. In UT3 it ended up by reading characters as "bulky black/blue, bulky red and bulky metal/brown". In UT'3 it was a lot better with SWAT guy, SWAT cyborg guy, Angry vampire guy, narcistic vampire guy, commando guy, soldier camo guy with sunglasses, soldier guy with bandana. SWAT/Vampire/Soldier archetypes are not that unique but thats what is making reading them easier and allowing to see personal traits through them.

                            Originally posted by Mangley View Post
                            Chris these designs are really excellent and spot on for what I think of as a natural evolution of what the UT99 Necris Mercenary look would be today. I'm sad to see people arguing here and getting hung up on previous incarnations of what the Necris looked like instead of contributing.

                            I was thinking about some ideas for attachments / details that would make sense and fit with the Necris Phayder technology and ended up mocking some up. I was thinking if Nano Black can re-animate dead tissue what happens if tissue is missing or destroyed on death? It made sense to me that Phaydercorp would have bionic implants to replace missing tissues, that work with the Nano Black to replace organs or limbs which Nano Black can't reconstruct.



                            I played around a little with having geometric shaped patches for the Nano Black showing through the skin. It looks a little bit tribal but could be just arrangements that the Nano Black has a propensity to form in.

                            Just throwing these out here for now, I'd like to do some further mock-ups on the female that I'll Edit into this post later.
                            Originally posted by papercoffee View Post
                            I have only one question...
                            Are Necris now Borg in UT4?
                            Or Quake2 Strogg. Unique personalities as Fk

                            Originally posted by TheoRiginal View Post
                            I just wanted to share my opinion because I'd prefer seing an evolvement from their latest look in the new design for consistency reasons mainly. I genrally prefer well improved successors over complete reboots for all good things, it's nice to see an evolution imo. And I would miss that image of supreme beings UT3's Necris gave. Undead mercenaries like the old Necris didn't appear to me superior to humans and thatfor just not as impressive.
                            Imho UT3 necris were evolutionary disaster (sorry Chris ;C ) and we should not continue their path directly. I'm thinking more about trying to find common denominator for the faction, making as many design paths viable simultanously as it is possible. Taking path where being physically necris doesn't need to change that much, untill body was heavily broken, then mechanical augmentation would show up, but this is not the rule, as being psychically necris, what develops earlier mentioned strongly varied passions and individual character traits influencing appearance of very necris in a different way.
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                              #29
                              Originally posted by CognizanCe View Post
                              Personally, and I don't know how many would agree (if any) I would use this as a ref sheet for necris.
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]10967[/ATTACH]
                              Although I don't think we would want to directly draw from the visual stylings of the Blade movie there (the vampires in that movie lack the distinctive paleness of skin tone that they really ought to have, and the Frost character is a little too stylishly modern-effete) the general principle to me should be Necris as vampires and not as zombies or reanimated corpses.
                              Personally I'm largely against explicitly using the 'nanoblack' explanation in anything related to the Necris since (a) it contradicts the existing lore of the Necris from UT1 and (b) I feel like it's very reductionist way to explain the Necris presence in the universe. People claim that it fits because Unreal Tournament is a science fiction game, but really one of the distinctive things about the Unreal universe in general was that it was science-fantasy, with all kinds of fantasy callbacks in the original artistic stylings (space castles, snake men, spellcasting Nali, etc). Unreal Tournament carried a lot of that art direction and so it makes sense for Necris to share a lot of vampiric stylings.

                              Design characteristics that I would like to see in the new Necris, personally:

                              - Pupil-less eyes (all-white)
                              - Generally longer hair, typically jet-black OR white
                              - Lack of obvious augmentation
                              - Ornate and ceremonial-seeming armor designs
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                                #30
                                @up
                                Tried to merge s-f approach and nanoblack with what you wrote while trying to not give too many answers and still leave them mysterious.
                                https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...l=1#post130599

                                I also like necris fitting space castle theme. DM-Cannon is map where "vampire necris" would fit perfectly.
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