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    More than just a port

    I would like to make an appeal to mappers, that they attempt to remake levels of previous UT games in spirit, adjusting them where they feel they need to and making the map their own instead of just copy/pasting the BSP with a new scale and adding some lights. I know we all have our favourite UT game but I dont think that should get in the way of the community helping to make this UT even better, so far I see a maplist of the usual suspects which leads me to believe alot of what people are making is what others want and not where their heart is.

    I have seen plenty of remakes over the years and plenty of original maps, we might not all agree what makes a good map but I honestly dont believe that should stop someone exploring a new take on an old, if even broken, map. I think we can all agree this UT can be the chance we all wanted to fix those issues here and there with everything, even the original UT wasnt perfect when you take off the nostalgia tinted goggles and if you honestly believe something was better in a previous game then perhaps you should stick to playing that flavour of UT, I dont think anyone here would have a go at you for it but Im sure we can also agree we would like a new UT community to welcome players from all UT's and new comers.

    In terms of new players they are not going to care in the slightest how accurate your recreation of a previous UT game is, even some people who have played previous UT games wont care either but everyone likes creativity, everyone likes a fun map. Ive seen some good recreations of Tempest, the version of Turbine in UT3 wasnt that bad if you ask me and that might get you thinking oh I dont agree so he's full of it and youre entitle to think that but I do believe we have to move on. We should be working together to really raise the bar not set it back in 1998 and as cool as old school used to sound it really just feels like it drags us all down, Im asking we break the chains, ditch the molds and really strike out and attempt to bring arena back in the spotlight and one of the main areas we can do that is with the levels, design and their flow.

    To go alittle bit into more detail, I dont think there should be meshes all over the place on every surface sticking out but at the same time I would like to see more than just low poly bsp all over, even if it is really creative work. Unreal Engine 4 really is fast and chews polygons like butter so I would love to see people using that to their advantage whilst taking extra care with their collision work to make sure players dont get stuck, hung up etc on parts of the map they shouldnt. That kind of leads into invisible walls and I must say, I never understood why we needed these in places the player can get to easily (or not so easily in some cases) by foot and it just feels odd so I do think we have to keep in mind that this is an arena and there doesnt need to be an excuse for building big walls of all different sorts around, sure it blocks the skybox but this type of game isnt about stopping to smell the roses.

    I think I'll leave it there, I dont want to drone on and on about my personal opinions I just wanted to share these thoughts and hopefully it will guide people to put effort where it will be appreciated most by all players. I really hope we can avoid people remaking maps with different tags just because they serve one specific purpose, I feel like great maps can really have a lasting impact, work well on a number of different gametypes and can be fun for everyone
    Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

    #2
    The first thing you need to do with a ported map is to see how it plays, then modify it

    I'd suggest porting, putting in basic textures and effects then waiting for it to be well playtested before making modifications

    Going through the effort of redesigning and fleshing out a map only for it to be pretty bad(and not played) is a lot of wasted effort for some

    At the very least i'd reccomend just putting in the basics and modifying it, so that your modifications can be playtested before the map is finished

    Comment


      #3
      Well Im sure there are people out there who can make original maps but with the remakes people shouldnt be afraid to modify them, sure you have to test the **** out of them but if you commit to remaking a map exactly how it is in "Game X" I think youre doing not only yourself but the community a huge injustice. Now I know there are beginners wanting to learn how to make maps but we shouldnt be throwing just any map at this game like we have in the past, Ive played on some shocking maps and some even worse remakes and Id love if we can get some form of rating system. Even then though I know we'll end up with popular maps that arnt actually good, they are just hyped up for whatever reason.

      I think going through the effort of even texturing is a waste of time when doing layout stuff, basic lighting sure but anything more and you'll get to a place where you dont want to go back and redo things and thats the trap alot of people fall into with porting, they commit to a finalized layout too soon.
      Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
        Id love if we can get some form of rating system.
        This would be ideal. Top 7 maps of each game type make it into launch + 3 of epics maps or how ever they want to do it.

        Comment


          #5
          Maps both ports and new ones will evolve with the mechanics and playtesting constantly, as level designers and artists it's difficult to scale or set anything in stone right now due to the looseness of the mechanics of the game, we can only really do blockouts and test out how it feels. And until such time where there is some way to playtest maps it's going to be really difficult to judge how effective the newer designs and how much needs to be changed on the remakes to suit the new game mechanics.

          Comment


            #6
            Really good points, I hope anyone serious about doing a remake takes things like these into consideration.

            I did a handful of remakes for UT3, Turbine was one of them

            I think it's vitally important that the map works for the scale / movement / gravity etc of the game / engine you're bringing it to. My experience says it's unlikely going to be a perfect 1:1 recreation for it to feel 'right'

            Plus, you really ought to know the original map quite well, it's tricks, it's quirks
            Every map has it's own specifics

            For example, remaking Hyperblast one of the key factors is getting the scale vs low gravity just right. There are places throughout the map where you should be able to walk off a certain ledge and float at just the right angle to land in a certain place, or perfectly through a small doorway, or jump and be able to fly just far enough to land in a particular spot etc..
            If those specific mechanics were lost, it wouldn't just not be like the original, it would suck to play!

            Until the movement etc is really nailed down for the new UT, it is a bit of a question mark and I wouldn't recommend anyone go too far with anything that they either can't rescale easily or aren't able / willing to go back and change

            (really looking forward to making some new maps, in some ways (proper) remakes are more effort!!)

            Comment


              #7
              Im trying my best to help with movement because I know how important it is and that we cant really push forward with maps until its sorted, I know Epic are laying into Weapons and DM so hopefully we'll be able to actually start testing in a few weeks to really get a feel for things.

              Im certainly looking forward to seeing some classics return and some new maps, UT3 shouldnt be overlooked as the scaling in those maps I find is actually a nice middle ground between UT and UT2004. Ofcoarse youre right sneh, it really isnt a 1:1 thing and each map will be different depending on its intended play style but I do think that no map is ever perfect and they can always be improved on so if one room needs to be scaled down, a hallway needs to be alittle wider, dont be afraid to give it a shot.

              We dont even have accurate numbers on what is low grav compared to the characters gravity, Im sure thats not going to change a great deal but its possible that gravity of 2 isnt enough and it needs to be more like 2.5 as with the map scale in some instances so even custom gravity on map throws things completely off. Id say to people certainly go ahead and play around with layouts see what feels best so far but we do need to get the distances for dodges, height for jumps all sorted so you guys can design for those little tricky movements people will be able to do in between.
              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

              Comment


                #8
                Agreed!
                Just looking at the Shooter game and Blueprint example maps shows how visually great it can look in UE4 but clean at the same time.

                I never liked all the -LE, FE, FPS versions either.
                They might have fixed some issues but at the same time they usually violated the original mappers visions gravely.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yeah Shooter game is actually a really decent example of detail and flow, it might not be refined for UT's gameplay but I would love to see nice details but still keep the clean lines of BSP type maps. I do think one of the issues is that in the past mappers have felt obligated to fill each area with alot of detail but the consistency of the details is more important than the amount and alot of the background detail actually gets noticed like sharks swimming around outside. Those types of details work well to pull people to it when they have a quick moment to look but if there is something going on then the focus is on the arena, putting alot of details smack bang in the arena is largely distracting and Im not against nice foilage hanging off like Eden Inc because the map itself is largely easy to tell whats traversable and whats not where as a map like Arsenal just seems rushed like they threw some of the meshes in there because they fit in that spot physically not because they fit consistently with the map design.
                  Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                  Comment

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