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Idea: Promote simpler map designs for pub play

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    #31
    I do agree with much of your thoughts there, especially that Epic are likely going to push for as impressive visuals as possible. There is no reason that can't be done with simpler and smaller overall levels though, pushing biggest details out to the background or what we'd formerly call a skybox. Initially I was sort of under the impression that's what they would do, but I guess it's not always so easy, especially when you want to make a map built on castle ruins, grass and the like.

    UT4 modding discussion: irc.globalgamers.net #UTModders
    Contrib Digest | UT2341 - Henrik's UT4 Dev Blog | Twitter

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      #32
      i think DM-Ironic fits this perfect!


      http://aggressivewarriors.com -=- {AW}'s Community Map Test Server -=-

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        #33
        IMHO one of the biggest concerns with complexity is file size. Not everyone has fast Internet; some people are stuck with 1.5 MB and 7.0 MB/sec DSL. It's kind of a downer to have to sit and wait while a 200 MB file downloads. It just disrupts the flow of the gaming experience.
        UT4 CTF Maps: CTF-Whiplash | CTF-Sidewinder | CTF-Highpoint | CTF-Hardcore | CTF-Tubes-Of-Spam

        UT99 CTF Maps: CTF-DagnysBigAssMap-V2 | CTF-Dagnys-P****WhIpPeD | CTF-Dagnys-Dark-Delight-LE102 | CTF-Dagnys-Tubes-Of-Spam

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          #34
          Originally posted by WHIPperSNAPper View Post
          IMHO one of the biggest concerns with complexity is file size. Not everyone has fast Internet; some people are stuck with 1.5 MB and 7.0 MB/sec DSL. It's kind of a downer to have to sit and wait while a 200 MB file downloads. It just disrupts the flow of the gaming experience.
          PSi is 57 MB and Genku (the one pictured above) is 89 MB.

          Supporting your point, perhaps this is why they are popular - and ASDF is not that large, but also comes with the engine so...kinda don't have a choice.

          Not sure where this is best aimed. Engine/cooking optimisation? Texture compression?

          IIRC this is why map builders in dayz gone by used to team up and put together 'map packs'; running them on their own servers - I think there is room for collaboration on this scale. Perhaps you would be able to get something like this for UT4? Rally support for a team of map designers to put together maps of the design and simplicity this thread is talking about and put a map together per team member and release a map pack?

          Even nVidia released a map pack for UT3...
          Maps:

          DM-PSi ; DM-Genku ; DM-Untold Storage ; DM-Station (WIP) ; DM-HeatRay Physx (WIP)

          DM/TSD-Formidable (WIP)

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            #35
            Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
            I do agree with much of your thoughts there, especially that Epic are likely going to push for as impressive visuals as possible. There is no reason that can't be done with simpler and smaller overall levels though, pushing biggest details out to the background or what we'd formerly call a skybox. Initially I was sort of under the impression that's what they would do, but I guess it's not always so easy, especially when you want to make a map built on castle ruins, grass and the like.
            Yah, I think they could/should also release lighting/environment maps as a baseline - so, all the post processing & lighting setup for the particular mesh releases, coupled with something like this:

            https://youtu.be/g5mojzojJfU

            ...would greatly assist the map making process.

            If you are going to go and share your meshes and you own the engine, you should go the whole way and really commit to helping the community. I got all the time in the world for Epic, but they are surrounded by swathes of technical people and artists. I think sometimes they (perhaps) forget we, are not.

            So yah, I agree with you.
            Maps:

            DM-PSi ; DM-Genku ; DM-Untold Storage ; DM-Station (WIP) ; DM-HeatRay Physx (WIP)

            DM/TSD-Formidable (WIP)

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              #36
              Originally posted by Mitch Mitchell View Post
              IIRC this is why map builders in dayz gone by used to team up and put together 'map packs'; running them on their own servers - I think there is room for collaboration on this scale.
              Back in the UT99 and UT 2004 days, you just downloaded the map file itself which only contained the map file. The textures and music for the map came as separate texture and music files, and if players already had those files, they wouldn't need to download them again. Nowadays all of those files are bundled into the map file, which makes things neater I guess, but at the same time if 10 different maps use the same textures, they all have to get downloaded 10 times instead of just once.
              UT4 CTF Maps: CTF-Whiplash | CTF-Sidewinder | CTF-Highpoint | CTF-Hardcore | CTF-Tubes-Of-Spam

              UT99 CTF Maps: CTF-DagnysBigAssMap-V2 | CTF-Dagnys-P****WhIpPeD | CTF-Dagnys-Dark-Delight-LE102 | CTF-Dagnys-Tubes-Of-Spam

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                #37
                Originally posted by WHIPperSNAPper View Post
                Nowadays all of those files are bundled into the map file, which makes things neater I guess, but at the same time if 10 different maps use the same textures, they all have to get downloaded 10 times instead of just once.
                Sorry to go off topic but.. is this true? Seems cray to me. Gonna have to do some research.
                DM-Kosko (A04) | DM-Backspace (Released!) | DM-Veracity (A01)| DM-Smog (A01) | DM-Conflux (A02)

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Scinbed View Post
                  Sorry to go off topic but.. is this true? Seems cray to me. Gonna have to do some research.
                  It is. When you "bake" a map into a .pak file, it encloses every asset that the map uses which isn't used in the base game (and some that are) and includes it as part of the pak.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by Scinbed View Post
                    Sorry to go off topic but.. is this true? Seems cray to me. Gonna have to do some research.
                    Nah, if the base game has the assets then they are not packed with the map. I do not know if the WIP assets in the editor are in the build though. My guess is that they are not since there's no pak to utilize them yet. In that case they would be included in your pak. It's the same as it's always been, it's just that we're starting off with fewer assets and 2k+ textures are the norm now.
                    DM-Nine | CTF-HolyOak

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by tidu View Post
                      Nah, if the base game has the assets then they are not packed with the map. I do not know if the WIP assets in the editor are in the build though. My guess is that they are not since there's no pak to utilize them yet. In that case they would be included in your pak. It's the same as it's always been, it's just that we're starting off with fewer assets and 2k+ textures are the norm now.
                      Hmm, I think I'd like a citation before agreeing with this.

                      Each builder will have different compression settings and lightmap resolutions on their BSP surfaces and meshes, although a lot of this work is done at build, there is still those settings per build for each of the elements within the map.

                      If you were to use the Unreal Engine as an independent game developer, you would want to have different compression for your textures per level/map/section/area for optimisation, and then you crunch for the platform (PS4/PC/Mobile/Colecovision).

                      With Unreal Tournament, we typically build at 'epic' settings and let the individual downgrade accordingly, even so - when testing we we are aiming for 120 FPS and this is achieved normally by turning the dial up and down for lightmap resolutions and checking the near-endless settings and configurations via the viewport and texture density etc etc etc. In the good old' dayz, fog was added to hinder draw distance, now we got LOD and it's stuff like this which is really the key to optimization.

                      No two maps or builds are the same, and neither are the settings used to cook them. So, I'm gonna need a lil' bit more before I join your side of the table...
                      Maps:

                      DM-PSi ; DM-Genku ; DM-Untold Storage ; DM-Station (WIP) ; DM-HeatRay Physx (WIP)

                      DM/TSD-Formidable (WIP)

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