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  • replied
    I've been toying with this for a LONG time now. I've come to the conclusion that predictable map movement (and I mean map changes not player) could be the way to go. There are a couple of options. Player triggered changes to the map or timed changes. or a combination of the two.

    One example (off the top of my head)
    Two players on the same team in a CTF match could trigger separate pads on opposite runs at the same time to open a swifter route home.
    All parties would be notified that such route was opened and it would remain open for predetermined amount of time.
    This could also be exploited by an enemy by using said shortcut to steal opponents flag.

    Another CTF example could trigger-able Draw Bridges to make it more difficult for enemy to get away with your flag.

    ideas abound

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  • Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
    Just turn the volume off.

    LOLOL yep!

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  • replied
    Hey guys, I'm a huge fan of the Unreal World, in particular UNREAL 1 and UT 1...in my honest opinion, it's 2 0 1 4, this game won't come out for the next year and a half at least and with all the power capability PC's have and also consoles, i believe it's time to give UNREAL TOURNAMENT a breath of fresh air... i understand the nostalgia to ask a remake of DECK 16 for the 20th time but it's time that the game gets something new for the gameplay, like physics in the game, perhaps with OBJECTS in the maps or destructibility of the environment.
    Since the Unreal Engine debuted and evolved through the years the game had ZERO environment destructibility and very few OPEN Maps except for the uninspired UT2k4. I'd love to see Epic take a little bit of a risk on the game by introducing new tech to the gameplay instead of playing it safe by remaking the same stuff we already played in the past, that obviously was a success but i believe it's time to leave a little bit of the past behind.

    Also it will be cool to have new weapons that can modify the map like on the game "Fracture", or the black hole weapon from Unreal 2, or something similar and cool like the gravity gun on "Half Life 2".
    Physics for destructible/deformable materials such as wood, metal, concrete etc etc

    To me it is sad to see all these new fps games with hi-poly counts and super shaders and there's nothing in the map that is interactive for the player besides couple of scripted destructible meshes.

    i hope it will change...

    Last edited by KentZeL; 06-20-2014, 05:48 PM.

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  • replied
    If something should change in the map, it should be more along the aesthetic line. Make the change not really affect the player much, but just how the map looks. Like in EnigmatiK's video, lets say you take a point in the domination gamemode, then the map changes slightly to accommodate for that. Maybe if the map is used for the storyline of UT, then something actually related to the storyline happens in the game. In this sense, the map WILL BE unique and not the same every time you play it, but at the same time, the map is still the exact same.

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  • replied
    The only destruction that wouldn't create issues with gameplay fairness, would be palette swaps (with some mesh changes[?], that are not reachable by the player, so that they don't fiddle with movementh/pathing) and impact decals such as making 3d holes into walls, destructible trees, introducing some non-collision debris, etc - not sure if holes can regenerate over time, but debris should definatelly vanish after a while..

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  • replied
    I like both the user-destructable/changable environment and the natural change (volcano idea) both for different reasons, back in the days of duke 3d I made a level that had a bunch of areas where you could blow holes through walls or change the environment in one of many ways and I found it massively fun! I watched my friends figure out that if they planted a pipe bomb they coudl egt to another area with a view over the wall from the outside, wait until someone wanders past and boom! gibs.

    The issues Entropy raises are interesting as
    A) perf. impacts are pretty negligible with efficient implementation (cept massive physics sims but they can be mocked up with reasonable efficiency)
    and B) If we just wanted to hit the majority of players it wouldn't be a moddable game, hell I remember when 'camping' started to mean dirty tactics, it was when quake players tried to play unreal 1 multiplayer and found that snipers could hide in all kinds of places and take them out (specially with jump boots They couldn't handle a different approach to fps other than run-n-gun or rocket arena.

    Besides destructible levels didn't impact bfbc2 badly at all.

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  • replied
    It remind me the map in Domination in UT3 ... Eeeeeh DOM - Enslaved ?
    When the red point goes to blue, the map turned into a necris environment with the nanoblacks pipe (I don't know how I can say that in english ^^)

    (At 0:22)

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  • replied
    Originally posted by sneh View Post
    I'm thinking of making a CTF map with a dynamic aspect.. (which is totally predictable)

    My initial idea is that there are 3 major routes between the bases, but only 1 is accessible at a time. In a 20 minute match, each path would be open for 5 minutes for example.
    In the remaining 5 minutes, all 3 paths would open up. Also, maybe something in the middle opens up which allows access to the redeemer

    I'm thinking that certain weapons or power-ups might only be found in each of the routes (and others near the bases are always available)

    Each major route might be more than just a single path too, they might each have 2 or 3 ways to go as well just like a usual CTF map

    I like the way this sounds. Semi-dynamics maps were made before where different areas open at different times. I recall some being made for UT2004. Never had an issue with them.

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  • replied
    I'm thinking of making a CTF map with a dynamic aspect.. (which is totally predictable)

    My initial idea is that there are 3 major routes between the bases, but only 1 is accessible at a time. In a 20 minute match, each path would be open for 5 minutes for example.
    In the remaining 5 minutes, all 3 paths would open up. Also, maybe something in the middle opens up which allows access to the redeemer

    I'm thinking that certain weapons or power-ups might only be found in each of the routes (and others near the bases are always available)

    Each major route might be more than just a single path too, they might each have 2 or 3 ways to go as well just like a usual CTF map

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Entropy View Post
    and (b) audience
    What if we could categorically seperate these special dynamic levels from static ones?

    I believe from a code standpoint it is entirely possible, despite being difficult.

    Where the metadata for the map is shown in the map selection menu to the player, we could have a field that merely says "Static" or "Dynamic".

    Thus giving the choice to the player.

    Or even better, we could make a mutator for maps that adds dynamic changes. So each map that is meant to be dynamic, would have a "static" version but could be mutated into a dynamic map via a mutator.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Entropy View Post
    The two main issues that pop up with changing/random layout generation are (a) technical limitations (perf. impacts) and (b) audience.

    Generally speaking, maps with unpredictable layouts (or aspects that change) are as well not received because the randomness means "control is taken away from the player" and the game is just _that_ much more based on randomness instead of player skill / experience. In a traditional DM game, knowing the map is essential for zone control, predicting enemy movement, using the geometry, and overall strategy.

    Leaving that to chance has both positive and negative impacts, based on your point of view!
    But what about when it's done at a certain time, effects certain places and allows the player to know these changes beforehand (with visual indicators and enough time to get away)? It shouldn't be random because who likes random things in skill based shooters but think about Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. There were 2 timelines you can traverse and both are similar yet they have differences enough to let you know, feel that it has new areas that you can reach that you couldn't. In UT, we will be using natural happenings (like volcano eruption, earthquake, meteor strike) as well as ion cannon strikes, spacecraft crash, etc.

    And of course, all of this must be optional, not mandatory.

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  • replied
    The two main issues that pop up with changing/random layout generation are (a) technical limitations (perf. impacts) and (b) audience.

    Generally speaking, maps with unpredictable layouts (or aspects that change) are as well not received because the randomness means "control is taken away from the player" and the game is just _that_ much more based on randomness instead of player skill / experience. In a traditional DM game, knowing the map is essential for zone control, predicting enemy movement, using the geometry, and overall strategy.

    Leaving that to chance has both positive and negative impacts, based on your point of view!

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    I had that idea for "random" destination teleporter.

    Yes its random in quotes, because my idea was to split whole dm map into tiny 1vs1 arenas, each would have some ammo and 1 weapon or pickup.
    Then depending on player ranking and current weapon it either would help some bottom feeder to get good weapon or screw leading one with not giving him more ammo to preferred weapon. Well maybe not absolute help and denial, but some random chance, help a bit losing player, make winning run a bit more.

    But this never worked because bots in UT3 could not handle dynamically changed navigation nodes. Well they could not handle closed door that had trigger somewhere else either. But now with blueprints and smarter AI this is possible. Or maybe even CUBE map with moving cubes.

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  • replied
    I kinda did bring this in another thread, let me quote it:

    Originally posted by Tycerax View Post
    Dynamic arenas?

    With dynamic arena I don't mean "destructible arenas"; I mean that, while playing something happens and changes the terrain. For example, let's say the arena is located near a volcano and a river. Sometime later volcano erupts and lava flows into the arenas certain points and follows a certain path. When lava comes, players will be unable to traverse certain paths but at the same time, there will be new paths because when lava gets to the river, there will be another layout in the same game/map. With this, it'll be like playing a new map without leaving one. Maps with multiple "instances" may be selected individually (like Arena1, Arena2...)

    Of course, this can be turned off/on as individual settings.
    I think it is a good idea to mutate the levels in one way or another. (:
    Last edited by Tycerax; 11-10-2014, 08:55 AM.

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  • replied
    I love this idea. I understand the importance of consistent maps that clans can learn and all that, but mutable levels doesn't mean every level is going to be this way, and it offers something new to the game.

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