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    The case for no more version/build numbers on maps

    Hello Mappers. Since this project was started most map makers have stuck to some sort of version or numbering system for each successive build of their maps. This was done to make sure admins were using the current version of a map as well as to prevent an issue where if a client had CTF-Mapname that was built 2 weeks ago but the server is running CTF-Mapname built 2 days ago, the client would think it has the correct map and load the 2 week old map. Then Epic came out with an MD5 hash to verify the map versions, we still used version names though because the MD5 hashing was not automatic and required updates as well. Well that is now fixed as well. So we really have no reason to be using version numbers on maps other than for the map maker to keep track of the latest map build. If we remove version numbering from out map builds, all a server admin will need to do to upload your new version of your map to his sever is replace 1 pak file. He no longer would need to go through his game.ini and change all the redirect statements, change all the map rotation statements and change all the hash statements. Some people may think "well how will the admin know if he has the most recent version without a build number" and the simple answer is the date in the file system on his server or comparing file size to the new download.

    So lets kill version numbers on builds. Just name your map CTF-Mapname. You can keep build numbers locally for when you are working on a map, I still do, just when you cook the map, make sure the map doesnt have build numbers. If you update your map thread, just put a note in the thread with the date of the most recent build.
    PayBack

    #2
    It does server another function; being able to talk about specific versions helps communication and feedback. I.e. 'I liked v4 better' vs 'how it was 2 weeks ago' Having that embedded in the file and map name helps.

    That said I see your point; I don't think I'll stop enumerating myself but it's a personal choice.

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      #3
      The game should just show a badge when the map comes up with the version number.
      HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
      BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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        #4
        Bad idea in my opinion!

        ... and to me that's just bad/lazy practice for content creators (maps, mods, etc.) to not implement an organized process of your work (versioning) with ea. release imo!

        How would you know if what you have is the latest version or a waste of your time setting up the map to see if it will work or if its just an outdated version!?

        Can't go by dates as the date will be the date you downloaded it not when the map was released! ... and you can't tell by file size if the larger map size is the more current one either!



        sure, im all for "easy peasy" but I prefer not to do extra work when not needed because you just don't know because the name is the same!


        http://aggressivewarriors.com -=- {AW}'s Community Map Test Server -=-

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          #5
          Originally posted by PayBack View Post
          If we remove version numbering from out map builds, all a server admin will need to do to upload your new version of your map to his sever is replace 1 pak file. He no longer would need to go through his game.ini and change all the redirect statements, change all the map rotation statements and change all the hash statements.
          Are you saying that the hash is calculated out of the file name only and doesn't care that the file contents have changed? I didn't realize that.

          One issue is that the editor has been known to change the saving path of the map on its own (possibly after an editor update). If the mapper is not watching that, (most don't all the time - e.g. NATO's path for Salt is wrong in his map thread), the path can change and then the map won't show up on mapvote on the server. I saw others have this problem and I just had it happen to me finally out of the blue.

          Your idea would take quite a bit of community organization because the mapper would have to provide the redirect URL and make sure it stays the same every update. If every server did not use the exact same redirect URL, it seems like mayhem would ensue. Not every mapper puts their map up on rushbase so sometimes I have to upload it myself which will lead to a different URL and potentially a different version of the map if I don't stay exactly in sync with the mapper's releases.

          One potentially confusing thing could be that a player goes to a server that has the newer version of the map with the same name, downloads it, and then later plays on a server with an older version and has to download what looks to be the same file again leading to WTFs.

          Sorry if I'm over-complicating this. I'm hoping this can all be simplified at some point.

          By the way, is anyone using "UT File Storage" and can that be used as a cloud-based redirect? If that was the case and everyone hit "yes" to that at the end of map builds, maybe some consistency could come out of that.
          Unreal Carnage.com UT4 Maps: DM-Maelstrom DM-SpaceNoxx

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            #6
            Originally posted by M^uL View Post
            Are you saying that the hash is calculated out of the file name only and doesn't care that the file contents have changed? I didn't realize that.

            One issue is that the editor has been known to change the saving path of the map on its own (possibly after an editor update). If the mapper is not watching that, (most don't all the time - e.g. NATO's path for Salt is wrong in his map thread), the path can change and then the map won't show up on mapvote on the server. I saw others have this problem and I just had it happen to me finally out of the blue.

            Your idea would take quite a bit of community organization because the mapper would have to provide the redirect URL and make sure it stays the same every update. If every server did not use the exact same redirect URL, it seems like mayhem would ensue. Not every mapper puts their map up on rushbase so sometimes I have to upload it myself which will lead to a different URL and potentially a different version of the map if I don't stay exactly in sync with the mapper's releases.

            One potentially confusing thing could be that a player goes to a server that has the newer version of the map with the same name, downloads it, and then later plays on a server with an older version and has to download what looks to be the same file again leading to WTFs.

            Sorry if I'm over-complicating this. I'm hoping this can all be simplified at some point.

            By the way, is anyone using "UT File Storage" and can that be used as a cloud-based redirect? If that was the case and everyone hit "yes" to that at the end of map builds, maybe some consistency could come out of that.
            The MD5 hash is done on the pak file itself, so whatever pak file the server loads, that is the file that is used to run the MD5 hash and compare it to map the clients are running. Ive never heard of a server changing the saving path of a map on its own and I never experienced that when running a server or making maps. Nato may have changed the map path while cooking the map accidentally, idk that just doest make sense. Players would still only have to download a single map once. If one server is running an older version, they still would download the older version and newer version. Most maps in the map voting screen also dont even show version numbers, they just show the map name as that is take from the pak file world settings value not the name of the saved .pak.
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              #7
              Originally posted by PayBack View Post
              Ive never heard of a server changing the saving path of a map on its own and I never experienced that when running a server or making maps.
              To clarify that, I meant the editor does that. If you do a "save as", on rare occasions it can point to a different location than the one you've been working out of.
              Unreal Carnage.com UT4 Maps: DM-Maelstrom DM-SpaceNoxx

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                #8
                I just remember all of the file mismatch problems from UT99 when maps/files had the same names and the problems it caused. So now I name my maps:

                CTF-Mapname-vmmddyy (v month date year, as in v040316).

                If we ever get a point where maps will no longer need to be repackaged every time there is an update then it would make sense to just call it CTF-Mapname for the final version, or CTF-MapnameV2, etc.
                UT4 CTF Maps: CTF-Whiplash | CTF-Sidewinder | CTF-Highpoint | CTF-Hardcore | CTF-Tubes-Of-Spam

                UT99 CTF Maps: CTF-DagnysBigAssMap-V2 | CTF-Dagnys-P****WhIpPeD | CTF-Dagnys-Dark-Delight-LE102 | CTF-Dagnys-Tubes-Of-Spam

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by WHIPperSNAPper View Post
                  So now I name my maps:
                  CTF-Mapname-vmmddyy (v month date year, as in v040316).
                  Use ISO standards. mmddyy is not sortable (alpha-)numerically. Better use "YYMMDD" as it is sorted chronically (or even YYYY).

                  If you release a map today, tomorrow and in a year (which might be the case as UT still change the network version and is an ongoing development process), you'll get the tomorrorw-map as the most recent version by comparing numbers.
                  Chronical releases:
                  CTF-Mapname-v040316
                  CTF-Mapname-v040416

                  CTF-Mapname-v040317

                  Sorted:
                  CTF-Mapname-v040316
                  CTF-Mapname-v040317
                  CTF-Mapname-v040416


                  Sorted; using YYYYMMDD
                  CTF-Mapname-v20160403
                  CTF-Mapname-v20160404
                  CTF-Mapname-v20170403
                  ] Map Scaler Tool | Betrayal for UT4 | No Spawn Protection | No Pickup Timer | BioLauncher (revived) | ForcePickupSpawn | Map cosmetics::P | Safe Spawn::P | Why numbers for Health/Armor suck!::ANALYSIS/CONCEPT
                  ] UT3 Addons: NoMoreDemoGuy | PickupRespawnTweak | Mutate Spec | MutePawnSounds | NoPlayerBeacon | Epic FTW | Epic FOCK | TripodSound (... and many more)

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by WHIPperSNAPper View Post
                    I just remember all of the file mismatch problems from UT99 when maps/files had the same names and the problems it caused. So now I name my maps:

                    CTF-Mapname-vmmddyy (v month date year, as in v040316).

                    If we ever get a point where maps will no longer need to be repackaged every time there is an update then it would make sense to just call it CTF-Mapname for the final version, or CTF-MapnameV2, etc.
                    Well that issue is solved now with UT4 and its automatic MD5 hash.
                    PayBack

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                      #11
                      so what happens if 2 people (or more!?) make a map with the same name and both maps end up out in circulation on servers for play/download!? is this going to create any issues other than both maps will never probably be added together on any server! .... I know I probably wouldn't go there being a serer admin/owner/operator!


                      http://aggressivewarriors.com -=- {AW}'s Community Map Test Server -=-

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                        #12
                        I think this would be best implemented after the game release and maps have been finalized. Most maps I serve up are still well in progress, just my 2¢'s.
                        LoPing
                        Explosive High Voltage UT99

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Laambo View Post
                          so what happens if 2 people (or more!?) make a map with the same name and both maps end up out in circulation on servers for play/download!? is this going to create any issues other than both maps will never probably be added together on any server! .... I know I probably wouldn't go there being a serer admin/owner/operator!
                          You cant put two maps with an identical name in the pak folder...one will be overwritten by the other. The only possible problem this could cause is if the server admin doesnt realize he doesnt have the most up to date version on his server and people have to play the older version, even thats not a problem. Thats it. But it would take updating a map from a 1-2 minute processes to a simple drag and drop the new map into the pak folder.
                          Last edited by PayBack; 04-04-2016, 04:15 PM.
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