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Which to Use UT Editor vs UE4?

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  • replied
    I just realized I should correct something. I keep saying UT Editor - which I DID use back in the day. But, a couple years ago when I started working this game out on my own, I was using UDK. For the record, I found the cooking process frustrating and never could get a UDK package running on a client machine to connect to the machine hosting the map. And I'm pretty sure networking wasn't the issue. I'm a systems engineer by trade, so it's my job to get things to talk to each other. I know all the networking pitfalls like ports and firewalls. That wasn't it.

    I started working through this series of tutorials last night so prep myself to teach The Boy
    http://shootertutorial.com/tutorials/

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Selentic View Post
    I suggested making maps for tf2 and/or cs as a way to get started on a single facet of game development and build the skills necessary to later on build a full game from scratch. I did not suggest licensing the source engine to make a game.
    Unreal Engine 4 is better.

    /thread

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Mitch Mitchell View Post
    I didn't read the posts I'm responding to
    I suggested making maps for tf2 and/or cs as a way to get started on a single facet of game development and build the skills necessary to later on build a full game from scratch. I did not suggest licensing the source engine to make a game.

    Read the posts you're responding to next time, you'll save yourself from writing massive autistic essays.

    Originally posted by Mitch Mitchell View Post
    Not picking a fight 'brah, but you are trying to ice-skate uphill on this.
    ok wesley snipes

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  • replied
    I appreciate the advice on looking at other engines. Starting him in the Unreal family was my choice because I am already somewhat familiar with it. I will already have to spend quite a few hours on my own learning UE and Blueprints before I get him going on it. The less time I have to spend to be able to give him a push the better if that makes sense. I don't even know how much he will take to this or stick with it or feel like exploring it on his own at this point. He plays tons of video games so he knows who makes what games and what engines they use. Me, I don't really play any video games anymore because of other pursuits. But if this is something we can do together and he takes the ball and runs with it, it will become something I make a priority

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Selentic View Post
    Cool story. Do you have any actual points to make on why Unreal and UT are a better place to start learning, or are you only capable of spitting out irrelevant hyperbole?
    Despite being my irreverent self, but wearing my sarcastic hat for the sake of stating what is clearly a fact, the point must be conceded the OP does not have a multi-million $ budget.

    He and his son can download VS2017 community edition for free, today: https://www.visualstudio.com/thank-y...ity&rel=15

    He can download a fully complete and supported engine, including full source code for free, today: https://www.unrealengine.com/register

    The Unreal Engine is the epitome of game engines out there, and anyone wishing to learn game mechanics, to the point of building a simple 3D level with the Blueprint system, with a goal-system, including risk reward structures and all of the free 'starter content', it can be rendered, compiled and shipped to other people to play as a self-contained game today. Right now. today.

    Source does not offer that. And, don't even mention Titanfall to me, because although they used Source, they stripped it out to the point where it became unrecognisable from the licence.

    And here is my citation:

    Originally posted by John Shiring
    On Titanfall we started with the Source engine; we replaced the renderer, we replaced the audio system, we replaced the net code. What we have now is very different from that. We have stuck with the Titanfall engine, but we did a lot of rendering improvements. We have physically based rendering, we have this really cool texture streaming system we wrote, HDR, bloom, depth of field. Hopefully you can see the results of all that hard work we put in that the game looks really different.
    We also have a whole new audio system again. This time we have audio environments. Audio-wise, if you compare the two games again, it’s a huge leap. We have sound occlusion and reverb happening. There has been a whole bunch of areas where we make big changes to the engine, so there’s not a lot of Source left; we continue to rip out chunks and rewrite chunks and make it do exactly what we want to get out of this engine, and get the performance what we’re looking for.
    So, what John is stating is simple: the engine required extensive rewriting before it could be used.

    Not picking a fight 'brah, but you are trying to ice-skate uphill on this.

    The OP wants to get moving and pick the best and most open (and free) engine there is, today.

    Now, how about all of us help this awesome father who wants to encourage his son to learn computer psychology and game theory via the Unreal engine? Because I'm on the side lines, running along and shouting "GO-GO-GO-GO-GO!"

    A tip my hat to the OP, and I open the door to them, hoping they can see the larger world on the other side of it.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Gru50m3 View Post

    I don't know if I'd say TF2 or CS is a better place to start than UT, but I think you should have a conversation with your son about what he is currently interested in doing. Computer Science is a broad field, and if he is specifically interested in game design, that only narrows it a bit. Is he interested in building game logic from the ground-up so that he can have complete creative control? Is he interested in making cool locations or cool weapons? I think that it would be easier to work on doing things to an existing game to start with, because building a game from the ground up is a massive undertaking, but it all depends on what he's interested in learning. If he's already a bit of an artist or showing interest in drawing or painting or making music or whatever, I'd see if he enjoys mapping or modelling for UT4. You could even see if you can get the weapon concepts you came up with working in UT4. If he's fascinated by coding and how games work from a base perspective, then start with UE4. Either way, he's going to learn something extremely valuable about the UE4 engine that hopefully allows his curiosity and creativity to grow. Cheers to you for supporting your son creatively!
    I had the discussion with him regarding what part of the game he wanted to develop. Level building, making stuff do stuff, modelling, etc. He told me he is most interested in game mechanics. I know that involves Blueprints (which I know nothing about yet) and/or C++ in UE. as previously stated, I know VB.NET and grasp object oriented design really well. No C++ experience. But I have no fears on getting my hands dirty and pushing all the flashy buttons to see what they do to figure it out. I'm just hoping he will follow suit

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Mitch Mitchell View Post
    I cannot take your side on this. The source engine is a nightmare, even scarier than waking up and then realising you are still having a nightmare, and then waking up, and finding out someone has stolen your Ferrari...and your beer.
    ...and despite this, it still powers what are arguably some of the best games of the last 20 years which not only hold up today over a decade later, but do so with thriving modding communities to boot.

    Originally posted by Mitch Mitchell View Post
    It is incomprehensible anyone would ever willingly inflict such a verbose, fat, buggy, overly and overtly complex preponderant left-over from the 16-bit wars.
    [citation needed]

    Are we talking about the same program here? Aside from being old literally none of those labels apply to source.

    Originally posted by Mitch Mitchell View Post
    And I'm standing there looking at you as if to say "Seriously?...you want to send him into battle? I want to end this. I want to end all battles for now until the end of the universe, I don't want to have to run around after this guy, picking up his spare teeth, I want to hit the "I WIN BUTTON" and then open the fridge full of Miller, because by then, it will be that time..."

    Tell you what - if you want to deal with the unlimited amount of support that will be required from you leading the OP into battle, armed with nothing but a banana, be my guest.

    Me? I'll be taking the prom queen home, because that's what winners do.

    /end sarcastic mode.
    Cool story. Do you have any actual points to make on why Unreal and UT are a better place to start learning, or are you only capable of spitting out irrelevant hyperbole?

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Selentic View Post
    Those games are built around brushes, UT is not. Even someone completely lacking 3d art skills can make a quality tf2/cs map and achieve a high level of visual quality.
    I cannot take your side on this. The source engine is a nightmare, even scarier than waking up and then realising you are still having a nightmare, and then waking up, and finding out someone has stolen your Ferrari...and your beer.

    It is incomprehensible anyone would ever willingly inflict such a verbose, fat, buggy, overly and overtly complex preponderant left-over from the 16-bit wars. I mean...you and I are standing on the top of the hill, planning on how to deploy the troops onto the battlefield and are issuing orders. You then say that to win the war, we should deploy one of the old veterans, complete with a wheelchair and false teeth. I want to send a frickin' T-1000, fresh off the production line, complete with enough arsenal to level an entire planet and the finest Wayfarers to ever have been stolen from Tom Cruise's house...

    And I'm standing there looking at you as if to say "Seriously?...you want to send him into battle? I want to end this. I want to end all battles for now until the end of the universe, I don't want to have to run around after this guy, picking up his spare teeth, I want to hit the "I WIN BUTTON" and then open the fridge full of Miller, because by then, it will be that time..."

    Tell you what - if you want to deal with the unlimited amount of support that will be required from you leading the OP into battle, armed with nothing but a banana, be my guest.

    Me? I'll be taking the prom queen home, because that's what winners do.

    /end sarcastic mode.

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  • replied
    https://www.youtube.com/embed/4X11xL...D6AA_NvyRConrf

    Russell Meakim, showing you what he created in two weeks with zero knowledge of the blueprint system, NSFW - but it proves the point: learning the blueprint system is how you create an entire game.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Gru50m3 View Post
    I don't know if I'd say TF2 or CS is a better place to start than UT
    Those games are built around brushes, UT is not. Even someone completely lacking 3d art skills can make a quality tf2/cs map and achieve a high level of visual quality.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Selentic View Post

    Then I'd stand by my suggestion. TF2/CS is an excellent place to start, without just diving right into making a game from scratch and getting totally overwhelmed.
    I don't know if I'd say TF2 or CS is a better place to start than UT, but I think you should have a conversation with your son about what he is currently interested in doing. Computer Science is a broad field, and if he is specifically interested in game design, that only narrows it a bit. Is he interested in building game logic from the ground-up so that he can have complete creative control? Is he interested in making cool locations or cool weapons? I think that it would be easier to work on doing things to an existing game to start with, because building a game from the ground up is a massive undertaking, but it all depends on what he's interested in learning. If he's already a bit of an artist or showing interest in drawing or painting or making music or whatever, I'd see if he enjoys mapping or modelling for UT4. You could even see if you can get the weapon concepts you came up with working in UT4. If he's fascinated by coding and how games work from a base perspective, then start with UE4. Either way, he's going to learn something extremely valuable about the UE4 engine that hopefully allows his curiosity and creativity to grow. Cheers to you for supporting your son creatively!

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Breetye View Post
    Thanks for all the thoughts, guys. I completely get that, for the long view, UE is the best place to start. I'm just concerned about the learning curve for him and his motivation level to put in the time to do it. I thought maybe UT Editor would be a good way to whet his appetite maybe. What do you think of using the UT Editor as kind of an intro platform? Or is it just as easy to get the same output with the same level of work in UE?
    Nope. Bad entry point. You will have to decipher a complex game. Which will take more time than actually creating something. UE4 comes with good templates. 2d platformers. 1st person shooters. ball rolling games etc. Meaning he can have a working game in one click.. Which will be very easy to decipher. Compared to UT


    UT4 will kill his desire to make anything before he managed to figure out he has to not only do stuff in the editor but read lines of code as most of UT4 stuff is C++
    Last edited by C-Arch; 05-09-2017, 09:05 AM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Mitch Mitchell View Post

    I completely disagree

    ninja edit: I am in utter shock you would suggest such a thing. I am now going for a long walk in the forest to consult with the village elders on how to best refute this absurd claim of yours.


    K...?

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Selentic View Post

    Then I'd stand by my suggestion. TF2/CS is an excellent place to start, without just diving right into making a game from scratch and getting totally overwhelmed.
    I completely disagree

    ninja edit: I am in utter shock you would suggest such a thing. I am now going for a long walk in the forest to consult with the village elders on how to best refute this absurd claim of yours.
    Last edited by Mitch Mitchell; 05-09-2017, 03:58 AM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Breetye View Post

    He has no experience. I don't know if I would call it "serious" but my friends and I were doing maps for Unreal when it first came out in the late 90s. After a bit of a refresher I'm pretty comfortable making meshes in the game. Making 3D models outside the game and working with textures not so much.
    Then I'd stand by my suggestion. TF2/CS is an excellent place to start, without just diving right into making a game from scratch and getting totally overwhelmed.

    Leave a comment:

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