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The fall of the symmetric age

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    The fall of the symmetric age

    With all these asymmetric levels, both official and community made, gaining popularity
    it's become more and more obvious that the golden age of symmetry is falling, giving way to the asymmetric age.



    For some symmetric means fair balance and layout clarity but do you really feel disadvantaged or lost in these new asymmetric levels?
    I think it's even legitimate to ask players if they still want symmetric levels?
    Attached Files
    CTF-GreenCause - DM-Blaster - CTF-RavenBreak - Assault Mappack
    Download Folders: My maps & Assault Mappack

    #2
    i prefer symmetry
    i like your map, and that is symmetrical

    i don't particularly like crashsite, but i have enjoyed asymmetrical maps in the past, and some of them have been the most popular CTF maps of all time (lavagiant, november, eternalcave, command)
    halftime gives the opportunity to even things out on those asymmetrical as well

    i think there is a place for both. a good map is a good map, whether it is symmetrical or not. and vice verse.

    Comment


      #3
      ...come on! The real reason it's because you cannot play an asymmetric level while drunk, admit it.
      Last edited by BloodK1nG; 04-07-2015, 09:07 PM.
      CTF-GreenCause - DM-Blaster - CTF-RavenBreak - Assault Mappack
      Download Folders: My maps & Assault Mappack

      Comment


        #4
        I am against asymmetric levels. It makes it tougher for a player to play a new CTF map. It is especially difficult for the novice players and we need to keep players of all levels coming into the game.

        The other problem with asymmetric levels is that they are often unbalanced. One side has an advantage and can run up a lead. Many people quit at halftime or before. That's no way to encourage participation in a game.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by NeoZee View Post
          I am against asymmetric levels. It makes it tougher for a player to play a new CTF map. It is especially difficult for the novice players and we need to keep players of all levels coming into the game.

          The other problem with asymmetric levels is that they are often unbalanced. One side has an advantage and can run up a lead. Many people quit at halftime or before. That's no way to encourage participation in a game.
          once again, it depends on the map
          maps from UT99 like Lava Giant, Eternal Caves, November and Command were extremely popular, with new players and veterans alike.
          a map like Crashsite is probably a lot more unbalanced. i think if you do asymmetic, it has to fall into one of the two categories below:

          - give both sides an reasonablly equal chance to score/defend. i think those ut99 maps did that well
          - be completely attack/defend orientated - like the CTF map Gooba has made (CTF Oni?)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by NeoZee View Post
            I am against asymmetric levels. It makes it tougher for a player to play a new CTF map. It is especially difficult for the novice players and we need to keep players of all levels coming into the game.

            The other problem with asymmetric levels is that they are often unbalanced. One side has an advantage and can run up a lead. Many people quit at halftime or before. That's no way to encourage participation in a game.
            You talking about these novice who have deserted CTF servers from all UT because the only CTF played online is with instagib?
            CTF-GreenCause - DM-Blaster - CTF-RavenBreak - Assault Mappack
            Download Folders: My maps & Assault Mappack

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by BloodK1nG View Post
              You talking about these novice who have deserted CTF servers from all UT because the only CTF played online is with instagib?
              Not me, I reject the instagib servers. There are some full UT4 CTF games being played.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by bacon buster View Post
                once again, it depends on the map
                maps from UT99 like Lava Giant, Eternal Caves, November and Command were extremely popular, with new players and veterans alike.
                a map like Crashsite is probably a lot more unbalanced. i think if you do asymmetic, it has to fall into one of the two categories below:

                - give both sides an reasonablly equal chance to score/defend. i think those ut99 maps did that well
                - be completely attack/defend orientated - like the CTF map Gooba has made (CTF Oni?)
                Asymetrical is harder to do. I have to give you props, you have a good point. I agree, Lava Giant and November work very well.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The argument made in the first post is extremely superficial. The hilarious thing about it is that MANY of the original maps in UT99 were asymmetrical, but over time symmetrical maps naturally became the most played. That's not to say asymmetric maps were never played, but they were often picked by old school teams/players due to their experience advantage on those maps. So basically your reasoning for why they are "fresh" and "challenging" is entirely wrong. The only new feature is the introduction of halftime, which STILL doesn't have an effective/fair implementation of overtime (not to mention the fact that it completely breaks the flow of the game by adding a long pause right in the middle of the map.)

                  You either are a troll or someone who never really played CTF. Either way, I couldn't disagree with your assessment more.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Symmetric or asymetric - doesn't matter to me. I don't see any issues with asymetric due to half-time. I think asymetric is a very welcomed variety.

                    CrashSite is quite fun but has one fatal flaw that makes it less fun than it could be -> the flagrun capture time becomes incredibly short when grabbing the boots and especially capping from the temple side by going at the jumppads and using the jump boots meanwhile in the air you've almost made it across the mid-section in one jump. Not very entertaining.

                    Also, I actually had a GREATER time on the old CTF-Dam layout, it took a longer time to travel and the fights especially at the water part around the Belt area were really interesting and well in general you had to face more fights meanwhile doing flagruns which made it a lot more interesting. I really start missing it. The midsection is really boring in a 1v1 fight on CTF-Dam now, it's basically a shock rifle fight around one pillar... C'mon, how can this layout be more fun?

                    In general I really dislike this trend of UT4 having small maps.
                    Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 04-08-2015, 03:23 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      eternal caves!
                      gauntlet !
                      ut4 @ ESL
                      skeevn: The A-side frags [fragmovie]
                      usefull jumps for beginners and advanced
                      skeevn 2v2 ictf mappack

                      The only *** playing with arrowkeys since '95

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Making an asymmetric map is like trying to mix two seperate drinks for two seperate people at a bar and having them both have the same experience from their drink

                        Personal preference not withstanding(i used to laugh when people chose to play red vs me on eternalcaves because insta players found blue easier) the issue of symmetrical maps isn't nostialgia it's simple gameplay effecting reality

                        Whilst there have been good asymmetrical maps over the years 99% of popular CTF maps are symmetrical and i can name twice as many asymmetrical maps which have had bases mirrored and became more popular than the 1% of popular asymmetrical maps

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Nobody said asymmetrical maps MUST be bad, but most people will agree that in UT99 one team had an advantage over the other in most/all asymmetrical maps. The way that has been mitigated in UT4 is to add a halftime teamswap. This method, although seemingly sound conceptually, has flaws. The biggest flaw, imo, is that it adds relatively long pause after only 10 minutes of playing. I generally don't feel like I need a break after such a short amount of time and it disrupts my focus and interest in the current game. Problems with overtime could potentially be resolved by changing the way overtime works. But this break in the flow of the game is unacceptable to me and there really is no work around. I just don't think it's good for gameplay.

                          These features would make a lot more sense in an asymmetrical gametype.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            @cafe There are alternatives which could work:
                            -symmetric bases arround an asymmetric center
                            -asymmetric bases arround an symmetric center
                            -asymmetric center without bases
                            -symmetric center without bases
                            CTF-GreenCause - DM-Blaster - CTF-RavenBreak - Assault Mappack
                            Download Folders: My maps & Assault Mappack

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Any of those could work. I encourage you, and others, to experiment with the idea of asymmetrical maps. In the end, players may just end up asking for symmetrical versions of those maps though

                              Comment

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