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    [OFFICIAL] Jumpstarting the map creation process

    Hey everyone!

    As the movement mechanics start to fall into place, we'd like to start testing scale. We wanted to start with a simple baseline: Deck16 and Curse from UT99. This would give us a playground for movement speed, camera height, scale, jump height, etc. as well as a great framework that provides context on gameplay. So here's my first community request:

    Anyone out there is willing to re-build the BSP for those maps in UE4? We're not looking for any changes right now, just a faithful 1:1 recreation in UE4 (doesn't need textures or lighting, just geometry). Unless I hear otherwise, I'll go ahead and make them next week, but figured I'd give you guys the chance to be part of the process and provide some visibility into how we typically start these things internally.

    If you're willing to start a map, please let us know here. On the off chance we end up with too many copies of the same map, that's actually a great thing! - I'd love to compare and contrast the different versions, to see what people are doing with the tools and start sharing best practices.


    EDIT: [additional info from another post]

    Just opened the editor and here's some scale reference:

    UT99
    Player Height: 78
    Player Radius: 32

    New UT project
    Player Height: 192
    Player Radius: 82

    Note that these units are Unreal Units. In UT99 1 uu=1 inch. In the current project 1 uu = 1 cm. Conversion from inch to centimeter = 1 : 2.54. Old uu to new uu = 1 : 2.46. IMO 2.5 tends to feel a bit large in actual play, and 2 is just slightly too small to fit the player in some old places (like under the stairs in DM Curse) so just slightly over 2 works.

    TL;DR: Anything ported over from UT99 should be scaled approx 2x.

    It will likely be off-grid in most cases, but for a straight port that's playable almost instantaneously, that's perfect for testing purposes!
    Last edited by Entropy; 05-21-2014, 05:34 PM.
    Jim Brown
    @EntropicDev
    Epic Games

    #2
    Are you looking for any UT200X maps? As a bit of a test on how UT1 and UT200X maps compare with the new systems. I think recreating UT3 maps would be a bit redundant though, considering the similarities in gameplay with UT1.
    Also known as musilowski.
    UE user since 1998.

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      #3
      Probably he already knows about this, but why not try
      https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...or-bsp-brushes

      Comment


        #4
        This is awesome! I'll get started on making deck16, I think. I just know that map a whole lot better (granted, a quick refresher on google yielded more versions of that map than I thought would exist)
        --------------------------------------
        clstirens
        Level Designer

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          #5
          Originally posted by van Kuss View Post
          Probably he already knows about this, but why not try
          https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...or-bsp-brushes
          Maybe because in UE4 the grid is in multiples of 5 (1,5,10,50,100) but in earlier editors its 1,2,4,8,16,32 and so on.. so you would only end up with a lot of geo off the grid and editing it would be a pain.

          Anyway. I may be able to help you out here Jim but no promises. I'm still catching up from UE3 to UE4. Also finishing up work on a UDK project.

          View my portfolio
          Unreal mod member since 2002
          CTF-Safeguard3, CTF-Dreary3, CTF-Stratus (V1.2), CTF-Pipeline(WIP)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by bazzwano View Post
            Maybe because in UE4 the grid is in multiples of 5 (1,5,10,50,100) but in earlier editors its 1,2,4,8,16,32 and so on.. so you would only end up with a lot of geo off the grid and editing it would be a pain.

            Anyway. I may be able to help you out here Jim but no promises. I'm still catching up from UE3 to UE4. Also finishing up work on a UDK project.
            Keep in mind, you can always switch the UE4 editor to power-of-two grid style if you choose. But yea, I think either way the maps may still have to be recreated from scratch in UE4.
            MyArtstation
            @jayoplus

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jayoplus View Post
              Keep in mind, you can always switch the UE4 editor to power-of-two grid style if you choose. But yea, I think either way the maps may still have to be recreated from scratch in UE4.
              Did not know about the option until you mentioned it.. kool.. good to know.. BUT I'm guessing its been changed to 5 by default as that's maybe how EPIC wish to proceed with unreal games. Or maybe I',m wrong and its just a personal choice. As a level architect its important to me that meshes are made for the grid.. grid is god so they say so we would want to pick a grid spacing and stick with it.. throughout the art department. I would hate to be scaling meshes to fit level grids.

              Jim can you clarify on this? I will assume we will use the default of 5 going forward?

              View my portfolio
              Unreal mod member since 2002
              CTF-Safeguard3, CTF-Dreary3, CTF-Stratus (V1.2), CTF-Pipeline(WIP)

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by bazzwano View Post
                Did not know about the option until you mentioned it.. kool.. good to know.. BUT I'm guessing its been changed to 5 by default as that's maybe how EPIC wish to proceed with unreal games. Or maybe I',m wrong and its just a personal choice. As a level architect its important to me that meshes are made for the grid.. grid is god so they say so we would want to pick a grid spacing and stick with it.. throughout the art department. I would hate to be scaling meshes to fit level grids.

                Jim can you clarify on this? I will assume we will use the default of 5 going forward?
                TBH, I am just making stuff on sketch paper atm. I would imagine either way should be fine but it would depend on movement, etc.
                My reasoning is if going by power-of-two 512 width may be different than 500 width for say something like a gap jump distance.
                I've been working with the default grid though because I agree that may be the direction of the level design going forward if the character height hinted at is to be believed (~180 units)
                MyArtstation
                @jayoplus

                Comment


                  #9
                  For the purposes of recreating these maps, you'll need to switch to the power of two grid.

                  Moving forward, we'll likely stick to the metric grid, but we're experimenting with some better grid options so that it doesn't go 5 -> 10 -> 50... Dave already added a 25 setting, for example, and is going to experiment with an all 5 grid next (5, 10, 15, 20...). There are some great advantages to making something 10% larger and having it snap easily, but there is also a great deal of usefulness to everything doubling cleanly (even if the math is sometimes hard). Someone internally suggested a decimal system (a 12 grid) since it divides nicely in 2, 3, and 4, but it all requires a bit of testing before long term decisions are made.

                  Once we come up with settings that we like we'll make it the default for the project. If you guys have suggestions we'd love to hear them, as this has been a topic of much debate internally.
                  Jim Brown
                  @EntropicDev
                  Epic Games

                  Comment


                    #10
                    sticking to power of 5 in centimeters in 3dsmax should give me meshes that will snap correctly in UE4 right?
                    DANG YOU UT2K4 KIDS! GET OFF MY LAWN!

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                      #11
                      I think tomorrow can try to give a start to the curse port. I'll keep you in touch (love that map)(well... really love all ut99 maps xDD)
                      unrealer since 1998

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                        #12
                        I've got the majority of the map bsp finished, I've just got to finish the lower section and elevator shaft. Should have you a copy by Sunday evening, or Monday morning at the latest.

                        [Deck 16]
                        Last edited by SwiftMalachi; 05-18-2014, 01:26 AM.
                        --------------------------------------
                        clstirens
                        Level Designer

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                          #13
                          Swift indeed

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I've been working on Deck16 for some time now and i think the result is pretty good.

                            I tried to copy the original UT99 map 1:1. The BSP's are all fine but the overall size could feel
                            a tad bit different. Anyway here's a quick video showcasing it.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Sweet!

                              Good job, Thomson!
                              The overall size looks like it could profit from roughly a 10% upscaling (alternatively, you could try 25% and see how that turns out, should be on grid then at least). Not sure if there is still a map scaling tool or a scaling widget in Unreal Engine 4 (didn't buy it yet, but intend to soon), but should that be the case, I suggest making a backup of the current version and selecting everything and upscaling it by various values to see how that works out. I'm sure the people at Epic will be glad to have different scales to see what works best for the gameplay!
                              Last edited by Sly.; 05-18-2014, 10:11 AM.
                              S l y .

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