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Selectable weapon and item layouts, multiple layouts per map

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    Selectable weapon and item layouts, multiple layouts per map

    On stream today there was some talk about changing item positions on Deck and NickTest. I noticed one possible problem - you have to place items differently based on the gametype, even if it's the same map.

    I was thinking it would be cool if we could have multiple weapon and item layouts per map. For example, there could be different layouts for Duel, TDM, DM, etc. It would be even nicer to incorporate this into the editor so that mappers can choose which "layer" they're working on. I could then for example choose Duel layer and palce all the items. Later when I try to balance the weapon/item layout for Free For All DM I can just add new DM layer and select it from some sort of dropdown list in the editor. I now have two layers.

    In-game it would be nice if when starting the map we could have another parameter like ?Layout=NameOfLayout next to regular ?Gametype parameter. We could even have links from layouts to gametypes. So when I create new layout in my editor for my map I can link it to one of the existing Gametypes. So my layout named LayoutA could be linked to Duel and LayoutB to DM. Then when starting the map I could use ?Map=whatever&Gametype=Duel and it would choose LayoutA even without explicitly defining it through the parameter because it was linked to that gametype in the editor. It would also be possible to override the layout by using a parameter so for example ?Map=whatever&Gametype=Duel&Layout=LayoutB would start Duel but with LayoutB (which is usually linked to Duel), overriden.

    This would give players some more choice without the need to manually change things in editor and then create a new map with different layout. Just keep it in one map and have multiple layouts. Remember UT2k4 and those multiple Torlan layouts xD We could also set a default layout to be used if it can't be resolved by gametype (not linked layout <-> gametype in editor) or explicitly by parameter. Obviously single layout maps would always default to that one.

    I could try doing some work on this when I get my UE4 licence but this will be my first time doing any programming in UE4 so it might take me a while and I'm not sure if it's even feasible.
    Last edited by FiOuch; 09-17-2014, 03:51 PM.

    #2
    I like the idea. It makes the game tweaked to support different game types but at the same time it complicates the life of the players. If anything I believe it wouldn't be coded but maps would be duplicated and receive different item placements. Then you call a DM or a CTF version of the same map.
    RASTE IN PEACE !
    Maps: DM-Hydraulics | DM-Affliction
    Weapon: Redeemer

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      #3
      Yeah but the problem there is that you would have multiple copies of same map, each would be several MBs, perhaps even 100MB depending on how detailed we get with custom meshes. To have two 50MB files for a 100kB difference in them is crazy. We should separate that if possible.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by FioPro View Post
        Yeah but the problem there is that you would have multiple copies of same map, each would be several MBs, perhaps even 100MB depending on how detailed we get with custom meshes. To have two 50MB files for a 100kB difference in them is crazy. We should separate that if possible.
        All custom meshes can be shared actually, hence reducing considerably the size of the "duplicated maps". Maybe a set of layers within the same map then, each with a different item distribution. Could work well with a minimum of programming.
        RASTE IN PEACE !
        Maps: DM-Hydraulics | DM-Affliction
        Weapon: Redeemer

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          #5
          +1 … There's much to be gained from these ideas.

          See also this discussion regarding game types, item placements, and sublevels: Decoupling maps from GameModes

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            #6
            This sound very much like the Node layout in ONS in UT2004.

            If such system doesn't make it into the core, a mutator will come very likely. And maybe it will be core some day though. I also made a mutator for UT3 which replaces the weapons based on the Gametype and/or map. I always disliked having to download a map with the size of 40MB+ to just have a weapon replaced by another one.
            ] Map Scaler Tool | Betrayal for UT4 | No Spawn Protection | No Pickup Timer | BioLauncher (revived) | ForcePickupSpawn | Map cosmetics::P | Safe Spawn::P | Why numbers for Health/Armor suck!::ANALYSIS/CONCEPT
            ] UT3 Addons: NoMoreDemoGuy | PickupRespawnTweak | Mutate Spec | MutePawnSounds | NoPlayerBeacon | Epic FTW | Epic FOCK | TripodSound (... and many more)

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              #7
              So, not that I'm against this idea... I just want to offer some counter points to why this system may not work.
              - You have players get confused about certain maps. Basically, if a player knows to go to a certain location on a map for a weapon or pickup, this proposed system will definitely break that for the player. Look at games that use this kind of system (Halo or COD), no critical game play items are changed between the different game types. It will be more difficult to implement for an arena shooter such as UT.
              - In addition to above, think about item call out that happen in maps. You can have location callouts if they're not consistent.
              - While this may encourage more maps with different game types, I may submit that this will actually break map design. Not all maps that are great for FFA are great for TDM or not all maps that are great for CTF will work for TDM or FFA. Now if a map designer wants to design a map that will work for TDM and CTF for instances, they may end up with a map that doesn't work for either.
              Having said the above I believe things like this could work for some game types like coupling vehicle game types together.
              Last edited by jayoplus; 09-17-2014, 10:20 PM.
              MyArtstation
              @jayoplus

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                #8
                Doesn't the UT3 approach with Arena do the same? You can pick all weapons, and make one weapon replace another.
                Change for the worse, and you regret every moment.
                Change for the better, and you can't live without it.
                Having the will to embrace change is the real challenge.
                --Captain Crit

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