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Questions about getting started with map development

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    #16 are the main examples. There are more than these packs (like the UOF-LP pack) which range from simple geometry up to really complex one like DM-Valon.

    Basically, in Low-poly maps, most of the work is done via the use of BSP and smart use of materials and lights to reinforce the illusion of visual depth without compromising clean look and gameplay.
    In result you get great to play maps (smooth fps and no movement issues) and great visuals. It's basically the looks of UT99 but with modern technology. ranging from gritty industrial, clean high tech to castles, ruins and space stuff.

    It also demands a less wide range of skills from the mapper. If you know how to set-up materials in editor, and work with BSP and Light, you don't need much more to get great results. 2D and 3D designing add to that but are not necessary.

    Some screenshots :

    Last edited by PlayForGG; 06-04-2014, 07:16 AM.
    My UT related portfolio :
    My guide to a proper UT3 setup


      HOLP maps.....
      • Please understand that using 3000+ BSP's x with potentially 6+ surfaces with 512x512 textures on a surface that is 64x512 is not great mapping.
      • [not aimed at anyone one person, please don't take offence^^]
      • It's also far from Low-Poly.
      • People need to understand that although "lowPoly" generally refers to amounts of Mesh polygons used, if you converted a HOLP BSP map into mesh you would have a map with better performance, better visuals, better lighting and shadows.
      • You also would have a mesh pack that can be reused rather than building 3000+ brushes everything you start a project.
      • i rarely see Textures being used correctly in HOLP maps, Alpha channels left right and centre instead of packed into a 3 x 8Bit RGB etc etc
        - People manually using Texture alignment where instead they could add a world position material expression (Sigh) and other usual suspects

      HOLP does not mean Low poly... and btw
      • HOLP = not great at all,
      • = poor for performance
      • = repetitive and boring, no individual style.
      • = fails to build a repertoire of resources and good quality content, unless you copy/ paste nice BSP shapes...
        There are people who have made some great maps, but if you look at the maps the same people made that were not HOLP they are much better.

      in your other thread:
      i think GreatEmerald said it better than i have:
      "What do you think is wrong in UT3, once modded ?: The overdetail and the grungification, blur on some maps, mod support. Thankfully MapMixer and Blossom fixes most issues. I wasn't very big on custom maps because they're huge. Tried HOLP but wasn't very impressed, because they are not maps, most of them are artificial layouts without much identity..."
      ^^ do you read the replies?

      - If you want HOLP so much you can copy and paste maps, they do not take much effort as you have already stated.
      i Did 34 maps in 24 hrs (HOLP/ BSP conversions), the majority of them really are poor excuses that shoudl only be used as BSP layouts, not classes as full maps.

      Again; please don't take offence,
      • some HOLP creators have alot of talent, i learnt from some of there stuff (hourences, Stevelois, the odd written tutorial from crazy)... but then progressed.
      • Chizra was a favourite of mine.
      • i am a UOF member and the content/ knowledge they produce is normally excellent [again they have more tlaent than they can show in a HOLP map]

      - I also made DM-Roughinery remake 99% BSP and i love the hardcore competitve gameplay it provides..... i just do not think HOLP shows this talent/dedication they have.
      - it is 2014, in 7 years i went from single core 2 gb to 8 core 64gb and fibre internet .... im sure im not the only one who thinks its about time to use technology for what it was intended.
      Last edited by TKBS; 06-04-2014, 08:23 AM.
      Internet BlackOut in <2 weeks,last chance to request 4 years of Unreal Development(something from every Unreal Engine 50+ maps, chars, weapons, mods, mutators and more).


        HOLP maps are more about visual design and primacy of gameplay readability than technical prowess. Which is perfectly fine -- The things you bring up are capable of being addressed on a technical level without changing the gameplay of the maps themselves.

        The one concern you bring up that I think has some merit is that HOLP maps often fail conceptually. A really good map has both a good layout and a good, memorable concept. Without that they never establish a strong unique identity.


          And no offense taken , you rise good points.

          I do read the answers, even though i don't reply. I'm reading most of the new comments relating to topics i'm feeling concerned with.
          I also do understand your points.

          I didn't said that HOLP packs were the best, i just gave that as an example of the style to answer to the poster above me.

          Considering UT3 :

          Most of your points can apply to standard maps aswell, there are tons that have no identity aswel as poor performance (insert random necris/urban map here). There are indeed better mapper than others. But someone has to start somewhere anyway.
          It takes a lot more skills to get something decent with meshes, and far more planning, some mappers just don't have the time to learn all of that. Doing HOLP style allows to still be able to share your work with the community by being easy to pull out and being able to work on the layout easier.
          Should a mapper not work because he can't do 3D design ? (I'm not sure that's even english, sorry about that)

          The lightning in UT3 is quite bad with meshes (from my experience, i may be wrong) and a mess to work with compared to BSP.
          About material optimisation and texture density, i know what you mean (as i failed on that previously but learnt since, so i guess others too) and it also happen with meshed maps (1024x1024 wires seriously ?).

          For both styles there is place to improve and i know that standard maps have more potential, it just require a lot more variety in skill and time, hence why some do/prefer HOLP.

          I'm still on a really old comp from late 2008 despite spending lots of time playing. I just didn't had the means to get something better. And LP maps are the only maps that runs smooth on my gear (apart from really few standard maps) so they obviously serve a purpose as i don't think i'm the only one in that case. Without them, i would have quit UT3 a long time ago and probably be among the few UT99 fanatics out there

          I agree that there are a lots of HOLP style maps that are just layouts with a visual layer and don't have much identity (can't never know which one is Remorse and which one is Bonescraper), the most notable example (in my opinion) for this point is Comp2 as each map of the pack use just variations of the same base textures. It's true for lots of standard maps too, but most of the time they have poor gameplay on top of that. Both styles have maps that have a strong identity and great layouts.
          HOLP style being mostly focused on gameplay that doesn't bother me that much as i play games is for the gameplay, visual is just a benefit for me, not a concern (Teleglitch/Hotline Miami for example are great games with bad visuals in my opinion).

          I don't trash the HOLP/Standard style in itself, don't get me wrong, i love both for what they can give.

          I also understand that the UE4 is different than UT3 editor on a lot of points, so the mapping should evolve obviously, it's just that when you throw maps like UT3 vanilla ones, people reacts the way they do. Hoping it will not be the case with this UT

          If you still want to discuss on that, please do so via PM, i don't want to derail the thread.
          Last edited by PlayForGG; 06-04-2014, 01:41 PM. Reason: typos
          My UT related portfolio :
          My guide to a proper UT3 setup