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is this a bug or am i doing something wrong? (dragging/snapping bsp stairs geometry)

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  • replied
    Originally posted by joellll View Post
    My guess is because the people replying to you are much more experienced (myself excluded) and simply do not use the stair tool. I don't use it and have never placed a set of stairs till watching your video and only did because I was curious. It seems brokenish but many things are a bit wonky in the editor so whatever.

    Even items like eight sided columns would be made from two trapezoids and a rectangle in the center rather than using the cylinder tool. Internalise this sort of thinking and you will make nice bsp.



    This sounds like a bad idea - you should try concentrating on working with a much larger grid. 50 or 100 is nice for blocking things out. Stairs can be ramps prior to replacing them with stairs.. since stairs should probably be clipped into ramps anyway they work in a similar way for movement.

    point1: why would one not use the cylinder bsp if it's there? seems good to me.

    point 2: i always work at a 50 snap usually - occasionally i need to go to 10 or 5; seems things move off-main-grid of 50 by divisions of that amount when you choose a dimension ending in 50 (150, 250, 350 etc)... but I had to go down to snap of ONE sometimes due to either

    A) the issue i said above - rotating a cylinder 11.25 degrees to make 2 of the 48 sides line up horizontally and vertically on the x/y axis to make the flat ends of a 90 degree or 180 degree curve meet a straight wall. once you rotate the cylinder the nodes go off grid

    or

    B) because i need stairs to span a given space and the second inner subtractive set get moved forward by an odd amount of snaps



    cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by nasty View Post
    thankyou! it's not just me then... this forum is like some nutty religious cult with everyone in denial if you say there's a problem lol
    My guess is because the people replying to you are much more experienced (myself excluded) and simply do not use the stair tool. I don't use it and have never placed a set of stairs till watching your video and only did because I was curious. It seems brokenish but many things are a bit wonky in the editor so whatever.

    Even items like eight sided columns would be made from two trapezoids and a rectangle in the center rather than using the cylinder tool. Internalise this sort of thinking and you will make nice bsp.

    Originally posted by nasty View Post
    the other day i had to turn off snap totally and try and line up some nodes by eye... not easy when the zoom doesn't go in very far. How hard is it for epic to make a simple TO/BY switch on the snap?
    This sounds like a bad idea - you should try concentrating on working with a much larger grid. 50 or 100 is nice for blocking things out. Stairs can be ramps prior to replacing them with stairs.. since stairs should probably be clipped into ramps anyway they work in a similar way for movement.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by joellll View Post
    First part of your video (up to 1:00) where you try to change the stair length. This does not work because you have 10 stairs and you are trying to adjust them 6 or 7 units? If you increase each stair by one unit you will overshoot the mark you are aiming for. If you were creating the set of stairs by hand you would not be able to create a set with the same lengths.

    Worth explaining in case it was not obvious.

    Dropping another brush between the stairs and the stair target would "solve" the problem.



    Dropping the default stair (30long, 20 high, 10 stairs) onto a 10 grid I cannot drag the end out beyond the top stair being 90 long - it sticks there. Also cannot skew the end up but can down. There seem to be constraints on what you can and cannot move on a set of stairs. I couldn't get points moving reliably with the keyboard even. Maybe the stairs have limitations to stop users breaking them/creating concave brushes.

    This isn't a stairs specific thing. There are other odd movement behaviors as well - sometimes the pivot with handles moves at a different rate to the item being moved, so it shoots off into the distance and the block moves 200 units. Sometimes left/right seems to get confused with up/down somewhat (seems to be what happens with the stairs).

    Echoing everyone else saying to not use stairs. Use the cube tool and resize each step, or the pen tool, etc.



    This frustrated me when I started as well. Your description of snap by grid is fairly correct. Its not really a huge problem unless you dwell on it. The tool below can be helpful ocasionally, just not for stairs. It seems ok for cylinders - however one needs to size the grid up/down to get a reasonable result.






    thankyou! it's not just me then... this forum is like some nutty religious cult with everyone in denial if you say there's a problem lol


    the other day i had to turn off snap totally and try and line up some nodes by eye... not easy when the zoom doesn't go in very far. How hard is it for epic to make a simple TO/BY switch on the snap?


    anyways the main problem for me now is total inability to build lighting or to SHARE on mac - maybe i need more ram? maybe i need to update to Yosemite? maybe i need to swing a dead cat around 12 times in a graveyard at midnight? who knows?

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    First part of your video (up to 1:00) where you try to change the stair length. This does not work because you have 10 stairs and you are trying to adjust them 6 or 7 units? If you increase each stair by one unit you will overshoot the mark you are aiming for. If you were creating the set of stairs by hand you would not be able to create a set with the same lengths.

    Worth explaining in case it was not obvious.

    Dropping another brush between the stairs and the stair target would "solve" the problem.

    Originally posted by nasty View Post
    I can see you dragging the mouse to the right still and the nodes aren't moving smoothly and they are 'sticky'...
    Dropping the default stair (30long, 20 high, 10 stairs) onto a 10 grid I cannot drag the end out beyond the top stair being 90 long - it sticks there. Also cannot skew the end up but can down. There seem to be constraints on what you can and cannot move on a set of stairs. I couldn't get points moving reliably with the keyboard even. Maybe the stairs have limitations to stop users breaking them/creating concave brushes.

    This isn't a stairs specific thing. There are other odd movement behaviors as well - sometimes the pivot with handles moves at a different rate to the item being moved, so it shoots off into the distance and the block moves 200 units. Sometimes left/right seems to get confused with up/down somewhat (seems to be what happens with the stairs).

    Echoing everyone else saying to not use stairs. Use the cube tool and resize each step, or the pen tool, etc.

    Originally posted by nasty View Post
    i would add as a general observation, that this editor seems to have no snap TO grid, everything snaps BY grid (if you understand the difference). I've tried every key-command snap item and nothing seems to snap something OFF the grid TO the grid (occasionally as I mention above, things get off grid, not often but sometimes).
    This frustrated me when I started as well. Your description of snap by grid is fairly correct. Its not really a huge problem unless you dwell on it. The tool below can be helpful ocasionally, just not for stairs. It seems ok for cylinders - however one needs to size the grid up/down to get a reasonable result.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Tetsu View Post
    Your attitude is indeed nasty. I didn't say it makes much sense, but like MoxNix said, you are asking for trouble. And if you think thats the only problem you'll face, I got awesome news for you, son.

    Forget all that, problem still seems to be on your end:





    Even in your example, CLEARLY you drag the nodes only a few snaps and they aren't moving smoothly and freely. I can see you dragging the mouse to the right still and the nodes aren't moving smoothly and they are 'sticky'... I can SOMETIMES get it to the line i want by luck, especially if i only need to move the nodes a couple if snaps, but you have the same problem at your end also it seems.

    But prove me wrong and show me a video where you freely move the nodes around in either direction and move them as far as you like to the RIGHT on the x-axis at a variety of snaps.

    have you tried it? I bet you cant do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Your attitude is indeed nasty. I didn't say it makes much sense, but like MoxNix said, you are asking for trouble. And if you think thats the only problem you'll face, I got awesome news for you, son.

    Forget all that, problem still seems to be on your end:

    Last edited by Tetsu; 06-14-2015, 10:33 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    ok scrap that... i figured it out. Pen tool!! cool. cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
    Don't use the stair tool.
    Do use the pen tool.

    If you're snapping to a 1's grid, that's just asking for trouble. You'll have a whole lot less grief if for the most part you fit things to a 10's grid, use 5's for some detail work and avoid going any lower than that.

    Edit: Here's a quick example of a couple stair brushes I whipped up in about 30 seconds with the pen tool... One to sit on a slope, the other to fit a cubic space.



    Grid is set to 10, so each step is 20 uu high and 50 uu deep.

    hi mate. yes, of course i usually stick to larger grid snaps/spaces/resolutions, but in the case of stairs like in the example i posted, if the stairs MUST span a set distance between 2 points, then inevitably there will be a small discrepancy gap remaing.

    have you got a link to a good clear tutorial on pen tool please (pref' video, but whatever). I couldn't find one

    also btw. one thing i'm doing is to create a bsp stairs, fit it between 2 upper levels (NOT anchored to the ground), and then drag off a copy inside the first, offset on the x-axis... then make the inner copy subtractive and carve out the stairs base-block, so you get formed stair steps spanning the space in the air between the two platforms (see image)... . so if i used pen tool, i'd need the underneath lower step edges as well.

    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Don't use the stair tool.
    Do use the pen tool.

    If you're snapping to a 1's grid, that's just asking for trouble. You'll have a whole lot less grief if for the most part you fit things to a 10's grid, use 5's for some detail work and avoid going any lower than that.

    Edit: Here's a quick example of a couple stair brushes I whipped up in about 30 seconds with the pen tool... One to sit on a slope, the other to fit a cubic space.



    Grid is set to 10, so each step is 20 uu high and 50 uu deep.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by MoxNix; 06-14-2015, 07:32 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    i would add as a general observation, that this editor seems to have no snap TO grid, everything snaps BY grid (if you understand the difference). I've tried every key-command snap item and nothing seems to snap something OFF the grid TO the grid (occasionally as I mention above, things get off grid, not often but sometimes).

    Maybe someone knows how to do it, i cant find it.

    get it sorted epic. even if there is a cryptic key-command i've been unable to discover, the snap on each viewport needs a simple 'SNAP TO/BY GRID' switch next to the SNAP ON/OFF because sometimes (not often but sometimes) things do get off the grid.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    wow! another really helpful reply.... great forum this! lol (i'm being really sarcastic there)

    er.... actually Tetsu it IS on a gridline ok mate, get your eyes tested (or maybe you cant stream in hd?), it's on a gridline with snap = 1, but whatever gridline it is on is IRRELEVENT... this issue i have shown is an inability to move the entire cluster of nodes down either side of a bsp stairs end-face by each snap division, freely & smoothly in either direction of the X axis. As far as i can see this is clearly a BUG, and the only fix is to use SCALE to make a set of stairs fit exactly between two positions on the X axis.

    btw Testu sometimes nodes/edges are NOT on the grid as a consequence of some other thing you might do - eg: rotating a bsp cyclinder by x degrees.

    Try it if you don't believe me... make a bsp cylinder snapped exactly to the grid with say 48 sides, now rotate it 1 snap with a snap-rotate of 11.25 degrees... now go in and examine the nodes on each degree of the cylinder at 0/90/180/270 degrees... they are off the grid.

    I've only been doing this a few weeks but clearly YOU are completely clueless, so do me a favour....

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Seems like the block isnt on the grid
    why is it not on the grid?

    anyways thats your problem good Sir.
    Last edited by Tetsu; 06-14-2015, 06:19 AM.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by TKBS View Post
    not using the master list again?
    pretty sure you could have saved yourself post

    i dont understand what that means. 'master list'?

    I searched for ages about snapping bsp geometry and endless variations on that wording... nothing

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    not using the master list again?
    pretty sure you could have saved yourself post

    Leave a comment:


  • is this a bug or am i doing something wrong? (dragging/snapping bsp stairs geometry)

    https://youtu.be/_HnqFtmjOcM

    see the video for the problem clearly shown.

    what is that? have i got some setting wrong which is then making the snap sticky & not free-flowing?

    this only happens with stairs, not other bsp brushes.

    rsvp please cos it's driving me IN-SANE!!!!!!!
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