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    #31
    Originally posted by RattleSN4K3 View Post
    Alternatives or themed maps would be really good to see. The thing about such contributions to UT, you can make a mod of an existing map in like half a day and it is played more than the original map. Never the one who originally created that map and designed it (with several tests, discussions etc.) will get the props.
    That is an extremely good point, I had never considered trying to 1up Epic on their own map but all the assets are there in the editor for anyone to cook arnt they. The way I see it is cold/warm maps will balance each other and the bias will always be there, even on 2fort in a game like TF2 where visibility was taken under heavy consideration it still biases one side. I have mentioned in IRC map picking strategy should be akin to Dotas Hero picking, that if a player knows theyre good on a map perhaps another player gets a chance to remove it.

    This isnt anything new though, the competitive community has been doing it for years, I guess they need to organize as much as the rest of the community needs to that way we can put across more than a sporadic lump of forum posts

    Im with you on dynamics, even a small weather system that blows out the torches but they flame back on this way the map is both cold and warm for intervals and it adds some variety to the play. Thats one thing I noticed is that in the promo clip (which is awesome) there are some common shots we see quite alot on this map. All of that is still there, the map itself is still an extremely similar playable area, what dynamics can do is alter where the focus of the playable area is rather than around static powerups.

    Originally posted by Spector CZ View Post
    It's just beginning to be frustrating, that's why the reaction I guess. I don't know, but there are 2 camps here... one, kicking for the art, beeing totally reluctant to even TRY to accept anything, that would shift the game towards competitivness in exchange for less eye-candy stuff. The other, wants competitivness for any cost. Well actually not, Henrik seems is totally right, I'm sorry, but we ARE NOT making a "hide n seek" simulator, we are talking about frenetic FPS with aim to became a competitive succes and you can't have character models to be invisible with the environment! Stop making excuses, we all know this is an issue!
    I dont disagree I just want to see something actually done about it, if players arnt willing to contribute to make the game theirs then whos fault is that? Ive tried numerous times to pull the community together under a united banner, Im not just where whinging on threads for other people to do my work for me. You can continue talking or contact me more directly for action regarding this issue, my time is limited but if you want to solve it'll be together not about turning it into 2 camps. I already said multiple times, when I vote its down the middle, Im just more progressive than the old school conservatives is all, Im not afraid of change.

    Its the competitive community making excuses here, Epic provides them with free tools!~
    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 03-10-2016, 10:58 PM.
    Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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      #32
      Well, not frustrating for everyone. Again here we see opinion A against opinion B. And e.g. For me, I even find Chill now has in several areas a BETTER visibility than it had in the shell.

      im also in the same side like Paul: I think sooner or later the old school area shooter pros get in the minority and either adapt or need to play some other arena shooter (but is there one? ). I personally can e.g. Not see like some moving trees in the background or these very few - and very tiny - moving ropes distract from a real player. As mentioned, then learn how to deal with it, as it's not only your disadvantage (if you see it like one) but also for each other player in the match... And if it is more challenging to Identify a player in a fully meshed map compared to a boring shell, is this not kind of what makes you get more pro?

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        #33
        Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
        I dont disagree I just want to see something actually done about it, if players arnt willing to contribute to make the game theirs then whos fault is that? Ive tried numerous times to pull the community together under a united banner, Im not just where whinging on threads for other people to do my work for me. You can continue talking or contact me more directly for action regarding this issue, my time is limited but if you want to solve it'll be together not about turning it into 2 camps. I already said multiple times, when I vote its down the middle, Im just more progressive than the old school conservatives is all, Im not afraid of change.

        Its the competitive community making excuses here, Epic provides them with free tools!~
        I'm feel, that we should not 100% depend on comunity making what is actually one of the core areas of the game. I from the start thought, that comunity should be mainly the source of ideas, direct feedback and help, where the manpower is lacking, but okay. I for one sadly don't have a PC capable at least running the game so I can not help with mapping as that is how I would love contribute as I did to some extend in UT3. I don't know how I would be able to help with what I have in mind with the character visibility issues as my skills in this area are more than limited... to bare ideas. But if that's something, I would love to dig into this issue.

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          #34
          [MENTION=9204]Spector CZ[/MENTION] its cool Im not singling you out, I havent contributed much directly of late either but I want to but the size of the tasks is getting to a point where we will need to collaborate. The Core might be different to what you think is the core, imagine it as just the framework in which the game itself is made upon and there is no reason people shouldnt be trying to help with that layer. Obviously not everyone has the time or the skills but you have to understand to some of us it sounds like people shelling out orders from the sidelines which isnt really helping, especially when its purposefully negative commentary so atleast you and [MENTION=6256]HenrikRyosa[/MENTION] are positive about something being done.

          Im just sick of hearing "lets wait for Epic" like thats all we do, my time is better spent actually doing stuff rather than waiting on them, nothing against Epic but their priorities will always differ to ours but that means we can get more done in areas they arnt inclined to.
          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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            #35
            Hey guys, can we try to keep it on topic; feel free to set up a new thread however!

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              #36
              Originally posted by cafe
              I don't even understand who you guys are arguing against. I fail to see how poorly lit/difficult to see players are good for anyone. Can you name one multiplayer modern FPS game that has poor visibility or visual clarity? Why would that be a desirable feature for anyone? This is ultimately a game that people need to play, not just look at.
              Instead of ripping Epic on youtube why dont you edit the map and make a version with improved visibility, I'll back it. Thats what Im sayin, too much blab not enough getting done if theres such a big issue, we have access to the editor and this map, anyone can edit it and show Epic how its done. Easier to destroy than create?
              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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                #37
                The map is very nice. Good job Rick, Josh, Stu and whoever else was involved.

                However, the ''Eye adaptation'' feature that causes the exposure of the scene to automatically adjust to recreate the effect experienced as human eyes adjust when going from a bright environment into a dark environment or vice versa hurts badly the game, especially on Outpost-23 and Chill. Also, considering that this is a competitive multiplayer game title, there shouldn't be almost pitch black areas in any playable part of the map. The darkest areas of any playable area should still offer great visual clarity.

                The following game is Deadliest Warrior: Battlegrounds (Chivalry).

                Night time...

                This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                It might not be an Arena Shooter, but it's a competitive multiplayer game based on the Unreal Technology (UE3). Before a QA pass, the game was much darker, the contrast between dark and light was much stronger. The QA team spent quite some time testing all the maps to make sure that all playable areas would never be too dark or too bright.

                Day time...
                This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                A wider contrast makes the image look more rich for sure, but it's the type of compromise that needs to be made on a multiplayer game to maintain a certain visual clarity, especially when players don't necessarily use the same monitors or TV screens either. I didn't take the time to take a screenshot or allareas of the map, just took a few on google, but I'm sure you'll get the point.

                This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                I wish I had more time to go into more details, but I don't.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by NATO_chrisjm View Post
                  Hey guys, can we try to keep it on topic; feel free to set up a new thread however!
                  In an abstract sense, we are all on-topic, as we are all connected in the vast universe, our matter is all of the same universe, and our voices all part of the cosmic noise of existence.



                  But for reals, sorry for derailing the thread. The map looks fantastic and its one of those things you look at and feel "****, THIS is why Epic lead the industry..."

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                    #39
                    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                    Map doesnt look that dark to me on lowest or highest settings. Im actually abit more upset about the music and the trees than visibility lol, the music doesnt seem to match the pace of play on that map at all and the tree's just look out of place.
                    Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      As I said before, visual clarity will be the biggest UT4 problem in combination with UE4 lightning effects, again Epic meshes the good commpetive map and all we have to see are goods of UE4, gameplay and visual clarity are much worse now, as they are also with Outpost and CTF Outside.

                      What I belive is that soulution is that community make they version of good epic maps that are not filled with so manny details and that bad lighting. I really belived Epic will not go that far with visuals but simse like they can't resist and people that are making visuals are not commpetive players. Epic is doing good job with weapons and characters and gameplay but not good job with maps. We really dont need so manny details.

                      Its sad that unmeshed maps are better than meshed ones and Epic puts so much energy to texture them and all we get is bad visual clarity. And in beging of project we were hearing from Epic that they know that visual clarity is big thing and they will go in right direction, I don't see it that way.

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                        #41
                        Map looks really gorgeous and all those jumps from the BSP shell still work fine Thats great!

                        BUT, visual clarity is becoming a bigger and bigger problem now. A appreciate all those efforts to make the player models more visible with rim-shaders etc, but its not working well as of right now.
                        Seeing the Screenshots of Chill, they had a much darker version at first, which looked more badass (imo). I guess the move to a brighter theme was due to the visibility problems. And if I am right, this is something which concerns me a lot, as it restricts a lot map-makers and creative artists, and in the end the various themes we can have.



                        I think, it is time for EPIC to overthink the way they want to make the playermodels more visible, which is essential for an area shooter.
                        If I remember correctly, Steve said on one of the streams, that it would be possible (engine-wise) to decouple environment lighting from character lighting. Maybe this a path which should be further investigated.
                        Last edited by Danielito; 03-11-2016, 06:30 AM.

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by Danielito View Post
                          I think, it is time for EPIC to overthink the way they want to make the playermodels more visible, which is essential for an area shooter.
                          If I remember correctly, Steve said on one of the streams, that it would be possible (engine-wise) to decouple environment lighting from character lighting. Maybe this a path which should be further investigated.
                          Its going to have to be done isnt it, the character lighting seems to be the source of most of the issues, Im fairly sure Epic said there were new Character Lighting channels, 6 of them (controlled by the level designer) but that is a really recent development and the team is still fixing alot of other things so they might not have got to it yet. It must be difficult for Epic but I think the community has to push too to prove this game can be a full product and not just a demo
                          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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                            #43
                            I think it's a problem with the skins more than the map. The dm skins especially are almost the same colour as most of the walls on the map, so it'd be nice to have an option to always force team skins for this exact reason.

                            There's going to have to be a compromise at some point though. Stunning visuals are great for casual players, but they're only going to draw people in if you can run them well. Currently I have everything on chill set to a minimum so I hit the fps that I want, I'd much prefer the map had fewer "over-detailed" areas so that I'm not encouraged to turn things like lighting, fx, texture quality and make the whole map look meh.
                            :|

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                              #44
                              This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                              All fixed guyz disaster averted!
                              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post

                                All fixed guyz disaster averted!
                                Take a look at the video in the DOOM thread. That's what the idea is and how it would be ideal. How to do it, oh well I'm affraid I'm not the person to ask this question

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