Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Chill Discussion

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #46
    I watched cafe's video hours ago and just opened the map again, what I immediately saw (which I didn't notice from cafe's video). The map itself differs. I have every graphpical setting set to "Epic" without any INI tweaks. On my end, the show was like 300-400%, the wind for about 200-300% as strong, the flags are moving twice as fast, same with the ropes. Another general problem with the visual clarity of this map, if you zoom (at least on my end), the LOD of the trees and the reflection changes. If you stay at one place and zoom in and out, the whole scene changes drastically which makes you think there is an enemy (could be a performance problem though as I was also compiling).
    ] Map Scaler Tool | Betrayal for UT4 | No Spawn Protection | No Pickup Timer | BioLauncher (revived) | ForcePickupSpawn | Map cosmetics::P | Safe Spawn::P | Why numbers for Health/Armor suck!::ANALYSIS/CONCEPT
    ] UT3 Addons: NoMoreDemoGuy | PickupRespawnTweak | Mutate Spec | MutePawnSounds | NoPlayerBeacon | Epic FTW | Epic FOCK | TripodSound (... and many more)

    Comment


      #47
      No matter if you set your settings to the lowest or highest, the main issue is the Eye Adaptation feature. Move around the map and enter in the room where there is a lift that leads to the armor. When you enter in that room, you'll notice it's super dark. Really hard to see opponents. But if you stay there for like 3 seconds, it gets better. But you don't have that time in combat. It makes the map look much darker and it really is. It's something Epic can easily tweak by changing the min and max level of exposure. Or remove the feature entirely, because it doesn't make much sense to have this in the first place in a competitive FPS title.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
         
        Spoiler


        Map doesnt look that dark to me on lowest or highest settings. Im actually abit more upset about the music and the trees than visibility lol, the music doesnt seem to match the pace of play on that map at all and the tree's just look out of place.
        If you check the histrogram, I would call this image a dark image (and thus the map). The Tonemapper film advanced graphic option does increase the overal darkness a bit but it would also increase the brightness of the players' skin if deactivated. If you play a against a bot, you can barely see the player unless you really focus on it and train on that. But that's tiring in general.


        Originally posted by 3Dmatic View Post
        No matter if you set your settings to the lowest or highest, the main issue is the Eye Adaptation feature. Move around the map and enter in the room where there is a lift that leads to the armor. When you enter in that room, you'll notice it's super dark. Really hard to see opponents. But if you stay there for like 3 seconds, it gets better. But you don't have that time in combat. It makes the map look much darker and it really is. It's something Epic can easily tweak by changing the min and max level of exposure. Or remove the feature entirely, because it doesn't make much sense to have this in the first place in a competitive FPS title.
        It's more the distance fog in Chill in indoor areas (eye adaption is slightly noticable but in a real game scenarion it won't adapt that much if you're constantly moving).


        [MENTION=8813]cafe[/MENTION]:
        Could be.
        Last edited by RattleSN4K3; 03-11-2016, 12:21 PM.
        ] Map Scaler Tool | Betrayal for UT4 | No Spawn Protection | No Pickup Timer | BioLauncher (revived) | ForcePickupSpawn | Map cosmetics::P | Safe Spawn::P | Why numbers for Health/Armor suck!::ANALYSIS/CONCEPT
        ] UT3 Addons: NoMoreDemoGuy | PickupRespawnTweak | Mutate Spec | MutePawnSounds | NoPlayerBeacon | Epic FTW | Epic FOCK | TripodSound (... and many more)

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by RattleSN4K3 View Post
          If you check the histrogram, I would call this image a dark image (and thus the map). The Tonemapper film advanced graphic option does increase the overal darkness a bit but it would also increase the brightness of the players' skin if deactivated. If you play a against a bot, you can barely see the player unless you really focus on it and train on that. But that's tiring in general.
          If I go from one of my monitors to the other it certainly looks darker, maybe I have my game one up alittle brighter so I can see. Who knows really, I played some instagib against some higher level bots and they wernt owning me like crazy because of the poor visibility for a human, they do okay but obviously they dont care about lighting. The post process can make the image darker or less crisp too sure.

          I mean it is busy as people say but I dont have trouble picking targets, maybe my eye sight is just really decent who knows, all I know is in FFA if you have a unique skin it makes you a target with the team colours you'll be easier to pick out from ages away, it might degrade the game as people leech kills from who they know to be lesser skilled avoiding those at the top who might normally get a better K : D
          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

          Comment


            #50
            DM-Chill is the epitome level design. Solid simple blockout. Nothing too fancy or an environment that gets my mind dreaming.
            But now, fully meshed; the gameplay is exactly the same but now it convinces me I'm really in that location. If I ever get to map making again, this is the inspiration I'm looking at.
            Marvelous. Also, the lighting is spot on.

            One nuisance I'd like to point at. There is only one way of getting to the shield belt as far as I know. Would be nice if you could reach from the tower next to it.

            Can't wait what DM-Volcano is going to look like if it's on par with DM-Chill. Very exciting.
            Last edited by ChA1NsAw; 03-11-2016, 06:15 PM.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by ChA1NsAw View Post
              There is only one way of getting to the shield belt as far as I know. Would be nice if you could reach from the tower next to it.
              .
              Wrong, you can dodge from sniper to the arch on the left. from there to the other arch and from there to the belt.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by RattleSN4K3 View Post
                If you check the histrogram, I would call this image a dark image (and thus the map).
                Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                Who knows really
                The histogram knows! The majority of data resides in the lower 25% of the histogram. The brighter version has the white and grey point of the histogram adjusted.. and I blew the lights a little. oops. It doesn't improve it much imo, if anything the walls material is too noisy brighter.

                Posts are about duel unless otherwise specified. ut duel shortcomings | What is timing? | dm-twentyseven

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by joellll View Post
                  The histogram knows! The majority of data resides in the lower 25% of the histogram. The brighter version has the white and grey point of the histogram adjusted.. and I blew the lights a little. oops. It doesn't improve it much imo, if anything the walls material is too noisy brighter.
                  Yeah but the point is the histogram is hardware dependent since the image is rendered client side, if you have a dodgy GPU brightness its going to affect every game not just UT. I just dont see what the big deal is, why this conversation is so persistent and pervasive on the forums. The games not even balanced so what does visibility have to do with **** at this point.

                  One thing people seem to miss too is that there is neutral lighting over the entire map then light sources are going to be harder to see, rockets, shock beam, picking up anything etc etc the list goes on to the events that have lights attached. Lights are easier to see in the dark, go figure but removing the darkness then messing with the player is the common solution but all it does is entirely break the game, I will leave any of these options disabled and you can guarantee I'll be here kicking a stink when Epic doesnt make it optional!.

                  I dont want the skill of having to acquire and track targets entirely removed from the game! Stop dumbing UT down!


                  "I mean it is busy as people say but I dont have trouble picking targets, maybe my eye sight is just really decent who knows, all I know is in FFA if you have a unique skin it makes you a target with the team colours you'll be easier to pick out from ages away, it might degrade the game as people leech kills from who they know to be lesser skilled avoiding those at the top who might normally get a better K : D "
                  Last edited by MonsOlympus; 03-11-2016, 11:33 PM.
                  Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    So I spectated almost the entire 2v2 UTAUNZ comp on DM-Chill shell (3-4hours)

                    It is SO much brighter than DM-Chill meshed which I had been playing for a bit earlier today.

                    Is this where some of the negativity is stemming against DM-Chill meshed?

                    I don't see to have much of a visibility issue when playing DM-Chill meshed.
                    Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Other than the darker areas, this map is beautiful and the music is just epic.
                      Wish I could melee some dudes Viking style.

                      This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version
                      Last edited by 3Dmatic; 03-12-2016, 11:37 AM.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                        Yeah but the point is the histogram is hardware dependent since the image is rendered client side, if you have a dodgy GPU brightness its going to affect every game not just UT. I just dont see what the big deal is, why this conversation is so persistent and pervasive on the forums. The games not even balanced so what does visibility have to do with **** at this point.

                        One thing people seem to miss too is that there is neutral lighting over the entire map then light sources are going to be harder to see, rockets, shock beam, picking up anything etc etc the list goes on to the events that have lights attached. Lights are easier to see in the dark, go figure but removing the darkness then messing with the player is the common solution but all it does is entirely break the game, I will leave any of these options disabled and you can guarantee I'll be here kicking a stink when Epic doesnt make it optional!.
                        For me, it's not the tone of the map but the high constrast in single areas of the match which is varying on how you approach that area (due to reflections, etc.). I actually do like darker maps and I never had problems with the (as the community calls it so...) grungy maps in UT3 for instance with a dark environment. UT99 had the same grungyness and darkness but people are just not objective enough (GoW comparison). I've sad it more than once that dark maps are having an advantage over bright ones.

                        Originally posted by RattleSN4K3 View Post
                        Strange to me as lighting, shadows and texture variety and all that visual clarity are really gameplay oriented and since Lightmass is used (bounced off light), shell maps are also tested how light affets these area and whether the basic layout has to change somehow (like removing walls, adding windows, which can also be used to shoot through, etc.). If I compare Chill's shell to its meshed version, I would also prefer spectating/playing the shell map as it is less distracting. Other than that problem, I really like the look. The general problem I have with the high quality is a generic problem which exists in all games nowadays. For some players even UT2004 or UT3 was too much in that regards, but I really liked the visually enhanded maps in UT3. But since the maps were dark in its tone overall, it made everyhting else stand out which is different to Chill. I could think of a Chill version which is actually chill and not hot'n'living. Less brown colored walls, more ice/snow, no direct lightin (of torches), more indirect lighting, dusty rooms with light beams. THe overall tone would be the same one as the shell map, icy blue-ish white to grey.

                        From the visual standpoint "how good looking can a map be", the bar has been set another time if not raised.
                        or here in response to such comment:
                        Originally posted by RattleSN4K3 View Post
                        Originally posted by HeisenbergTrip View Post
                        [...]They're way too dark too,[...]
                        The advantage of having darker maps/areas helps the visual clarity of moving objects like projectiles with dynamic lights or team colored players. Most of the players disabled all these things, so they never actually noticed the advantage of the art style . UT3 (as a new generation) is just more detailed and it would be a shame if a newer UT doesn't have the level of detail compared to older games and competitors.
                        Since UT actually never was a realistic game, why the need of yellow-ish torches? This changes the ice tone of the general map drastically that some areas are colorful where as others are dark and/or white-blue-ish. I could think of blue-ish fire instead of the current one (didn't Wolfenstein had green torches?). The overall brightness could also be improved. The map has sunlight and in general, sunlight would enlighthen rooms a lot even if there is a small window. Here, it seems like the rooms would be completely dark if the torches wouldn't be there (the JumpPad room for instance).

                        For a game which has the focus to competitive gameplay and aims high competitiveness, these things are breaking the rules, the discussion to keep visual clarity in mind. I never was a fan, and never won't be, of the high competitive focus but that's what they approach and push in every stream. I wouldn't really mind all the issues I had with the general tone or look of Chill, I do like it (even though I think it could look better with a different color scheme), but I feel like Epic is creating maps which might attract new players, but all these maps will never be played that much by the (so called) competitive scene. Of course this game is moddable (in some extent) but this should be the case for the initial release, that users have to download map variants of the shipped maps because most of the custom server do prefer these. Epic could force such maps but this wouldn't solve the problem.
                        ] Map Scaler Tool | Betrayal for UT4 | No Spawn Protection | No Pickup Timer | BioLauncher (revived) | ForcePickupSpawn | Map cosmetics::P | Safe Spawn::P | Why numbers for Health/Armor suck!::ANALYSIS/CONCEPT
                        ] UT3 Addons: NoMoreDemoGuy | PickupRespawnTweak | Mutate Spec | MutePawnSounds | NoPlayerBeacon | Epic FTW | Epic FOCK | TripodSound (... and many more)

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Yeah, one thing I also constantly see: mappers give torches and other lights mainly too realistic colors. Let's them shine in green, blue, violet, .... whatever colors which the fits best to the local areas visibility. We are in Unreal, they don't need to have a realistic color if it can enhance visibility for that area!

                          I found previous UT titles did not focus too much in if a map overall looks realistic. Having some unreal style would really be cool. As an example: in the beginning I had quite mixed feelings regarding to the inner modern mesh out in CTF-Face. Now, I love it (thanks Stu, great choice!).

                          Let maps look unreal! Overall I very much like the meshing from DM-Chill. But looking in the early pictures where the map was less contrastfull and more black/white/grew stylish was also appealing.

                          i wonder if the overall bright skylight can be turned down a little - just a lityle - and more torches , but less bright and using different color schemes can be placed within the map to compensate for that.

                          Anyway, as this thread should be used for feedback about Chill: From the selection of mesh style, art and environment absolutely stunning! I'm pretty sure future enhancement to illumination and materials (e.g. more 'less snow' in the yards) will enhance character visibility while maintaining the overall great concept/style.

                          Related to performance I'm very happy even with my old PC. And I believe the current performance of the so far meshed maps are fine. Don't forget guys, the high end gfx cards from today will be lower mid end in two year, when the game may start to see officially light of day. So nobody should worry about performance.
                          Last edited by Mr Van; 03-12-2016, 02:50 PM.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            The way blocking volumes are setup messes up visual clarity and immersiveness. It's not always clear where I can't go.
                            I use to be a tournament competitor like you till I got concrete to the knee.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Map looks and plays great!

                              The only thing im confused by though is why Dubstep was chosen for the trailer? People are generally tired of hearing it and when i posted the trailer on another forum people complained. I'd personally avoid using pure dubstep again in the future.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Solution is simple. Add option "Turn off map's textures" or "Turn on simple textures". After that everybody will be happy. Players who like super graphic and players who don't care great graphic (included me). Btw you can add a trap under shield belt area, something similar like in Fractal but in middle age style with blades, axes, spikes etc.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X