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Outpost 23 Discussion

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    #16
    First nice job everybody, the map really looks nice, I think its the way UT4 should go, modern and fresh graphics with good visual clarity. And it should be simple, maybe not to simple, but not to complicate with to many details like in UT3. As for Outpost 23 only thing I think should be deferent are shiny floors, I think I saw a picture in stream with not so shiny floors (they were mat) and for me it looked better.

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      #17
      Great work on that map !
      Just... the corridor to megahealth seems a bit lowpoly compared to the other parts of the map...
      Otherwise, shiny floors are ok to me. Just lighting in drilling room and yellow room are a bit confusing.

      I'm curious to see other Epic maps now... Hope we will have examples of different tech layout (if all tech maps are whita and orange it's gonna be boring), castle theme and egyptian theme at least... A natural one and an urban one would be welcome too.

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        #18
        Love the map, it just plays so nice for such a highly detailed map. I really can't find anything to complain about that isn't already going to be addressed.

        Could we get some of those remaining Outpost23 shots from the stream like the "postcard" one? That's begging to be used as a wallpaper.

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          #19
          I Love the Map too and will more Maps highly detailed

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            #20
            Just out of curiosity, on which kinda setup did you build this map hardware wise and how long did it take to build (at this lighting quality level)?
            Last edited by Saiboat; 03-14-2015, 07:02 AM.
            XMP | THREAD

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              #21
              Aesthetically a very nice map. But to me it seems almost unplayable. There is so much visual distraction, like the shiny, mirrorlike floors, way to much contrast of light. Is it intended to literally be blind looking from the outside area into the indoors? I mean it is quite realistic. But simply impossible to play (for me at least). In the indoors light fx from weaponry has a huge blinding effect too. If projectiles go past me I am almost not able to see anything behind them.

              I think it is visually stunning, but completely fails as a arena shooter map atm because of non existant visual clarity.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Saiboat View Post
                Just out of curiosity, on which kinda setup did you build this map hardware wise and how long did it take to build (at this lighting quality level)?
                Probably at least 100 cores were used to do the lighting, as Epic don't use a single computer to do it, but have a renderfarm linked directly into the engine company wide.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Hartbrot View Post
                  I think it is visually stunning, but completely fails as a arena shooter map atm because of non existant visual clarity.
                  I reinstalled UT3 just to see, and I think Outpost is far more playable than almost any UT3 level who had high bloom and some dark, no contrast lighting.
                  Look at Darkmatch, Fearless or Biohazard...

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                    #24
                    Personally I think they nailed the balance of visual clarity/next-gen graphics. This is night and day from UT3 in terms of clarity already.

                    They have said in the stream they are going to tone down the lighting transition from outdoors to indoors on Outpost.

                    A lot of the visual goodies will come with all the weapons, power-ups, character models, animations, and effects that are still to come so I would hold out on judging the graphics until it's finished.

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                      #25
                      I completely agree with Tidal Blast. This is not a great example of visual clarity, at all. I just don't get what Epic says by Visual Clarity at the moment. If they think that less textures, more white and less detail is visual clarity , then they need to wake up. The map is a good showcase of the graphic potential no doubt (i love the characters and map visual), but... it's that the focus for a pre-alpha game?

                      The characters are completely off color-wise. When playing online it's really difficult to see.
                      work: www.POLEGAR.pt

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                        #26
                        Spotting and identifying characters should be part of the game play in my opinion and thus the art direction should remain natural and not artificially boosted to make characters stand out at all times. Glowing suits will eventually be the consequence at some point, but I'd like to see it not. Why is it that people want things too obvious, glowing skins, plain walls, hit sounds? What about learning to play the game?

                        I like the eye to darkness adaption system. Should make some tactical game play.


                        Map looks great! Spent some time walking, but it looks like there's a constant blur, like edges are not sharp. I'd like some of it on the screen outsides, but the things in the middle of the screen should be sharper looking. Maybe the problem is on my end?


                        Something I really dislike are the invisible barriers. Please build maps with natural barriers, and no invisible "you can't go there"s. For instance with low gravity if you lift jump, you bounce off the invisible barrier on the outside part of the map. On the outside on the right, you can jump down on a pipe that runs alongside the outer hull of the base, but you instantly die. You should not, but jumping off it you'd fall to your death. All the other pipes can't be walked on, you slide down an invisible barrier if you attempt to jump on them.

                        I'd wish things would behave the way they look. If something looks like you can jump on it, you should be able to do so and not be held off by invisible obstacles. Obstacles should be obvious. Say if you want to cut off an area, add some fence or grids that are electrically charged, so you'd see the electricity sparks flickering and you'd try it once and learn that you get fried. Or a force field that becomes visible when you touch it. Although I'd like not too much of such trickery and more freedom, even if it means the freedom to fall to your death.


                        Can't wait to see the other maps in their final glory.
                        Last edited by Psychomorph; 03-14-2015, 11:58 PM.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Psychomorph View Post
                          Something I really dislike are the invisible barriers. Please build maps with natural barriers, and no invisible "you can't go there"s. For instance with low gravity if you lift jump, you bounce off the invisible barrier on the outside part of the map. On the outside on the right, you can jump down on a pipe that runs alongside the outer hull of the base, but you instantly die. You should not, but jumping off it you'd fall to your death. All the other pipes can't be walked on, you slide down an invisible barrier if you attempt to jump on them.

                          I'd wish things would behave the way they look. If something looks like you can jump on it, you should be able to do so and not be held off by invisible obstacles. Obstacles should be obvious. Say if you want to cut off an area, add some fence or grids that are electrically charged, so you'd see the electricity sparks flickering and you'd try it once and learn that you get fried. Or a force field that becomes visible when you touch it. Although I'd like not too much of such trickery and more freedom, even if it means the freedom to fall to your death.
                          I agree wholeheartedly with this. Another example is the pipe near the flak cannon; it looked like I could jump on it, but I couldn't.

                          I personally think the map needs more colour variation. The outside area currently has the most colours; the red lifts, black above the lifts, some blue on the pads, metallic pipes, and such. I don't mind the white-and-orange theme, but I think at least some more pipes/tubes could be grey or black. Otherwise, it looks absolutely gorgeous!

                          I agree with Tidal Blast that the characters should stand out a bit more, but I am also not in favour of bright/glowing skins at all.
                          Maps: DM-Fith

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Tidal Blast
                            Outpost 23 looks fantastic, but it currently works against characters. The visual clarity isn't where it should be. The map should be darker or desaturated (in other words, not white) and characters should stand out. Right now it's the opposite.
                            Why do you think so? Why characters need to "pop out?" It is the same for everyone...so it is fair ground.

                            It looks just fine. Identifying character is part of the deal; the game should not be one color wall and bright color characters.
                            Steam: cvp_bg | UT: CvP

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                              #29
                              This is just one map and I think they did an amazing job with it. Hopefully there will be quite a bit of variation in the looks of the maps once more of the art buckets come online. I think there is some fine tuning they could probably improve character visibility as they perfect their usage of the engine but in general I don't agree with the visibility issues. You're just not going to get the map variety that we all want and be able to see the characters perfectly at all times. As it is, Outpost is a good improvement over the stock UT3 maps.

                              One trick I started doing with my UT3 maps was to put a separate skylight in that was only on the composite dynamic channel so I could brighten up the characters just a little bit. Maybe there is something similar they could do in UE4 (I haven't checked). Hopefully we won't ever have to see brightskins in this game.

                              Anyway, great first map guys.
                              Unreal Carnage.com UT4 Maps: DM-Maelstrom DM-SpaceNoxx

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                                #30
                                My thoughts is that outpost looks pretty awesome from a visual clarity and fidelity standpoint but after looking at it for a week now it's kind of boring how literally everything in it is just white or gray.Yes there's some colored paint here and there but I preferred the look of some of the concept art much more. Speaking of that, can you post the concept art? It's all awesome stuff and you were definitely holding out on us!

                                I know you say that the darker paint wasn't as clear for visual clarity but I would probably rather have some more artificial lighting if that's the case. If I have a choice to pick between a same-y look across the whole map surfaces for colors (white) vs changing the lighting then I'm going to go with more colored surfaces. The outside has some visual breaks between just white/gray and that's very nice but the inside is probably too much of the same for my taste. Unless this is just a 1-off map decision which I'm cool with I wouldn't want to see a series of ultra stark white maps even if it's just the theme not the whole game. I find the original orange/black concept to be much more bold and UT-like than the retro-white look of the final.

                                By the way where does Epic consider Outpost to fall into their little chart they handed out to polycount people. Is this a midtech facility?

                                I hope that this sort of decisions carry over to the other environments yet to come, UT had plenty of dark levels as well and it worked fine. I know in UE4 you have to be more realistic with the approaches instead of just cheating it in UE1 but you guys did an amazing job with just white/gray surfaces. So much detail packed into the map, incredible stuff.
                                Last edited by FirebornForm; 03-15-2015, 04:37 AM.

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