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  • replied
    OK, reverted the health changes and added a little more. Two more up top, one extra vial around flag base and 3 extra vials up by the flak window. Should make it more playable. I'm holding off on any extra movement for now. I quite like it how it is.

    As for RL, I certainly won't be releasing two versions. Obviously not every map has to have every weapon; suggestions to remove it had merit so I removed it for now.

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    Server admin info:
    Dir: /Game/Maps/CTF-Cliff/CTF-Cliff-WIP4
    URL: https://ut.rushbase.net/NATO_chrisjm...wsNoEditor.pak
    Checksum: 35d3a7f894124cebd9427bc205102667

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  • replied
    Originally posted by TickleMeElmo View Post
    Stevelois, We asked him to drop the rockets so we could balance competitive CTF play based on the current build. That's not to say they wont come back, just not now. There are currently plenty of options for public CTF maps. Currently there are only 5 maps for competitive play. This one is the strongest candidate for the sixth.
    I understand. Still, I do not know what Nato will decide in the end and since a game is for everyone and not only a type or style of playing, it's better the LD gather the comments of all type of players when designing a level

    Perhaps 2 versions could be available. A regular one and a "CE" ?

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  • replied
    Okay I checked out version 3 on my own. I like the little changes you made to the architecture, and I like where you placed the belt and amp, and I like that there are extra guns outside the base now. But oh my goodness, now there's SO LITTLE health in and around the bases :S A defender might as well just kill themselves if they survive a tough battle against attackers, since there's no place to recharge! IMHO there should be at least 100 health pretty close to the flag room available for people to use, plus a few more vials if you want something extra. Granted, I haven't played an actual match on it yet, but I just think that removing the belt from the flag room will go a long way in helping the attackers get anywhere, and that might be enough. We'll see.

    Other than that, here are some movement options that arent quite possible yet, but I think would be neat - you can take them or leave them if you want:

    1) Inside the flag room, being able to use the "basement lift" to jump places onto the second floor:







    2) Right now, this rock is kind of a tease. Maybe a person should be able to escape out that way, and use it in a flag running route somehow? I'm not sure if it would be that practical, but it's just something to think about:





    3) Again, I'm not sure exactly how practical these things would be, but theyre so close, yet so far away!! Maybe they could be used to get around someone who is camping on the shield belt spawn?





    4) I think it would be neat to be able to use the outside lower level lift to get somewhere quick:





    5) Lastly, I think this is a good opportunity to be able to use a little ramp dodge onto the enxt level, like the kind you find in DM-SOLO inbetween the shield belt spawn and the bridge above the shock rifle:




    That's all for now. I'm still figuring the map out, so none of this is a "MUST HAVE" from me. Based on the time spent in the map, I just think some of these would be neat, is all. Even though theres scary little health available to defenders, it's still a good update. Looking forward to seeing this map develop into a new staple!

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  • replied
    NATO, great work man I think you have a really winner here. I can't wait to play it in PUG. That bounce pad down low is a nice addition. Thank you for putting all of your time into making this a reality, it is awesome.

    Stevelois, We asked him to drop the rockets so we could balance competitive CTF play based on the current build. That's not to say they wont come back, just not now. There are currently plenty of options for public CTF maps. Currently there are only 5 maps for competitive play. This one is the strongest candidate for the sixth.

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  • replied
    Wip 3

    Really like the geometry, look and feel of this map

    Your maps are really amazing you know?!

    Some won't like the Rocket Launcher in this map but seriously, it's a big miss. I strongly suggest you add it. A CTF of this scale without the RL is nonsense imho. I do not like weapon in double neither (in all maps). The Flak near the belt could be replace by an Enforcer or RL.

    But in all, it's another awesome level m8! Looking forward the next version

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  • replied
    The map is still perfect NATO

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  • replied
    Move some stuff around and tweaked a few other things. Important things are; Belt is now mid, amp is now mid low. Moved some spawns out of flagrooms, put an extra flak and link in mid. Took some health from flagrooms and moved outside. That's more or less it.

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    CTF-Cliff-WIP3
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    Server admin info:
    Dir: /Game/Maps/CTF-Cliff/CTF-Cliff-WIP3
    URL: https://ut.rushbase.net/NATO_chrisjm...wsNoEditor.pak
    Checksum: bef1f303829db65f1495bebd3b119791

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  • replied
    Originally posted by cafe
    Absolutely do not add boots.
    Yeah I think I forgot how fast they push you forward as well as upward. Plus boots on a map with a belt and limited lines of sight probably isn't a good equation.

    I'm also a relative CTF newbie and also a crazy person.... So NATO, go ahead and take advice from the more... experienced players ^____^
    Last edited by BigFatErik; 01-10-2016, 03:40 PM.

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  • replied
    Thanks! I'm having a think about what I want to do; will likely poke it tomorrow sometime. I hadn't considered boots yet, they would work ok; but up the risk of people throwing themselves off the map.

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  • replied
    I actually got a PUG game on this map today instead of just goofing around in warmup or spectating. It plays surprisingly well, and I really enjoyed myself while playing. My team also won in a near blowout, so that probably had something to do with it. But here are a couple notes for now:

    Like people have stated before, there just cant be SO much armor so easily accessible for the defenders. The "fortress" layout pretty much forces an attacker to get into fight with all the defenders on pretty much every attempted flag run. Allowing the defenders to stack up on a shield belt, vest, and thigh pads is just too much. I suggest keeping the vest where it is for now, moving the thigh pads either right outside or right inside the high entrance to the base, and moving the shield belt onto the far end of the central tower (maybe even on the lift itself). On the platform above the flag stand, perhaps a +50 health pickup? and remove one of the 25's next to the flag stand?

    I said before that a jump pad somewhere along one of the routes would be very useful, and I still do, but I think this map is just begging for a pair of jump boots. It would be an excellent tool to use for juking out defenders who are chasing you along a route, and maybe translocate ahead to cut the Enemy Flag Carrier off, only to find that theyve been juked out by some boots. In any case, I think adding a single boot pickup would be an interesting experiment!

    I also mentioned before that it might be interesting to maybe change sides halfway through, and who knows it just might be, but you might wanna put that on the backburner until we get some playtesting in with a new version in the next build. I only got one game in myself, but I had a really good time. This map has some really good potential, so you got a good thing going here.

    One last thing for now: I think the name "cliffside" is a bit catchier than just "cliff". just sayin!!
    Last edited by BigFatErik; 01-10-2016, 05:09 AM.

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  • replied
    The maps not asymmetrical. It has has line symmetry cutting through mid.

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  • replied
    One shield belt where the AMP is would be good. Put the AMP somewhere on the outer/lower pathway, this would spread out the traffic flow between the two bases so that the high/inner path isnt always chosen when going from base to base. You now have a tactical reason if you arent a flag carrier to take the longer route to the enemy base. As it stands right now, if you dont have the flag, you take the short/inner route every time.

    Originally posted by BigFatErik View Post
    I wonder if t would be possible to script it so that the teams actually switch sides at half time? and all the red / blue colored decoration switches as well? I think that would make it more interesting to play many times in a row, so a person is not stuck going in one direction around the bend for 20 minutes. Instead, they would be on one side of the bend for 10 minutes, and switch to the other side for the last 10. Boom, you just made the most playable asymmetrical CTF map. Haha I dunno, just something to think about.
    This is already possible, thats how all the non symmetrical maps currently work. At half time, teams switch sides and all the team decorations change colors. Neat idea, would be interesting to try out, not sure thought how much that would confuse people though. With a normal non symmetrical map, the two bases are vastly different, so you dont have a problem where when you spawn, you get confused as to which way to go. I could see very easily, teams switching sides and someone in the chaos of the match trying to return the flag to the wrong base just out of habit.
    Last edited by PayBack; 01-08-2016, 01:28 PM.

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  • replied
    My thoughts:

    This map has a lot of potential. The layout is simple and easy to understand almost immediately. The architecture around the level is easy on the eyes, and makes sense to our human brains while running around in them.

    Hitches: The front door on the high entrance to the base has a "step" up from the grass to the concrete. I was able to reliably get caught on that while dodging into the base over and over if I did it from the same starting position. It would catch my dodge and stop me mid-flight.

    Movement options: I really think having a jump pad or two outside of the bases would give a flag runner more options. If players take a flag out to the lower or middle level, theyre kind of stuck going that route. If a jump pad was placed along a pathway, a player could jump up to a different level, and turn around to blast a defender who needs to either use the jump pad as well, or switch to their translocator. Additionally, Maybe add a sort of "dodge ramp" into the side of a wall so that a player could dodge up to a new level.

    Weapon placement: If a defender is killed trying to chase a flag carrier, and they need to catch up using the translocator, they might not have the opportunity to pick up a weapon inside the base while they are on their way out. Since there are so few weapons along the routes in the middle area, the defender might just be stuck with a pistol if they want to catch up in time. Maybe move some of the weapons from inside the base to the outside, so that defenders would have a better opportunity to pick up at least 1 gun while on the chase, and also maybe have to leave the base for a second if they wanted to get a specific gun. Which leads into the next point:

    Spawn points: So many are located inside the base that if an attacker was trying to grab a flag, they would need to not only deal with the dedicated defenders, but also deal with newly spawning enemy players who might have been killed while on their own attack. Grabbing the flag is like playing a single-player game where the enemy guard sets off an alarm, and a dozen people swarm your location to kill you. Maybe move more spawn points outside of the base so that an attacker has some breathing room. Which leads into my next point:

    Health and armor placement: A few more health packs should be outside the base so that a player might need to either exit the flag room for a second to re-fuel, or be able to take a specific route to get some health back while running the flag. For armor, I think it would be interesting to have the thigh pads in the lower entrance where the vest currently is, put the vest right outside the base, and move the shield belt to the middle tower somewhere. Perhaps at the very end of the sniper hallway (or even ON THE LIFT ITSELF) so a player might be able to sneak steal it from someone who is also getting the amp.

    Also, maybe consider adding wall-running slopes to different areas to take advantage of UT4 movement potential. But thats probably a topic for a later date.


    I wonder if t would be possible to script it so that the teams actually switch sides at half time? and all the red / blue colored decoration switches as well? I think that would make it more interesting to play many times in a row, so a person is not stuck going in one direction around the bend for 20 minutes. Instead, they would be on one side of the bend for 10 minutes, and switch to the other side for the last 10. Boom, you just made the most playable asymmetrical CTF map. Haha I dunno, just something to think about.

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  • replied
    Right on, the spot were amp is currently would probably be best for belt, typically that is what is most heavily fought over. Perhaps amp could be put on low mid. I think vest high would work in that configuration.

    I was trying to think of what should be low for that layout. It is a little out of the way so whatever is put there should be of value. maybe flak or shock, because they are usually separated.

    Another idea that was floated was two amps one in the high of each base with belt at mid, and vest low in each base.

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  • replied
    Yeah, I was thinking about moving the belt out to mid, along with some weapons. I'm a little worried about having belt and amp in mid, even if I put belt bottom mid. I'll probably move chest up to belt. I may also move a weapon down to the base bottom and some spawns too. There are currently 12 spawns per base, I may take that down to 8 and move them away from the flag room.

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