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DM-Vacant (Mapcore TSD)

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    #31
    That's the beautiful combination of the tech and nature! Its like Outpost but much nicer!!! Incredible map!
    For maps and drawings visit: conradjustin.com

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      #32
      Originally posted by ConradJustin View Post
      That's the beautiful combination of the tech and nature! Its like Outpost but much nicer!!! Incredible map!
      its really good (thanks Christopher!) but right now at the current state not better than Outpost 23. To become so, it needs some more variety and identification/uniqueness in some map areas. Even the main building is currently only distinguished from the other areas by some slightly different color stripes.

      But overall the main theme for most of the walls, floors and ceilings is this white 'used' material look (maybe they look too used in the same way, would be better to have floors much more used than walls/ceilings). I think some areas could visually impress more by giving them more character/individual appearance, which would is also make easier to remember where you are when playing the map.

      But I'm sure NATO will be able to find a good solution for this
      Last edited by Mr Van; 07-12-2016, 12:01 AM.

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        #33
        The map has been a victim of the recent update: decals are showing a default texture. Can you please fix that?
        -Fn>Metalfist
        ---------------------
        CTF-AsteroidDrill | UT99 Ports&Muts | Nyandeemer | Unreal Papercrafts | Unreal Monsters | ChaosUT | UT-SLV: Strangelove | DeviantArt | Zunnie's Mug

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          #34
          To be brutally honest I'm waiting on the result of the contest before making any changes; which disincentivizes me from fixing anything *right now*. I appreciate that the decals are super annoying but it's still playable. Epic are going to test with the previous build and thus the issue won't be prevalent there. I also don't really want to create any confusion by releasing a new version during this period. I know it's unlikely to have much effect but I just want to be absolutely sure.

          It's also not just a case of recooking, epic changed the appearance of those decals. I need to dig through and select new ones, or more likely create something that fits. It currently looks like this:
          This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version
          You might not agree but I'd much prefer something that looks broken and in need of fixing than something that looks like I've just made a poor aesthetic choice

          And as I've said in other posts I'm taking a bit of time off to do a few things I've been putting off for the past 3 months along with some PC maintenance (Win10 *fistshake*). I put a lot into this and I just want to take a couple of weeks breather before diving back into stuff.

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            #35
            Ah okay I understand, I'm just asking that, because we are busy with cleaning up the server maps and remove/update the broken maps.
            In-game those decals don't look that dark like in that picture, but actually looks very light and clearly visible.
            You can also get the same decals back from a previous version of the editor (I have a backup version of the editor) I believe and just save it as a custom thing in your map, so the appearance is still the same?
            -Fn>Metalfist
            ---------------------
            CTF-AsteroidDrill | UT99 Ports&Muts | Nyandeemer | Unreal Papercrafts | Unreal Monsters | ChaosUT | UT-SLV: Strangelove | DeviantArt | Zunnie's Mug

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              #36
              This is true, but if I'm going to make it custom I'd rather just go to town on it and make something that's closer to what I'm looking for rather than just dupe something that existed before. The SS above is from the new editor. I did a test cook today to check to see if that was translating to the game and it is. Not sure why the previous build just shows the default material but yeah, computers.

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                #37
                OK so I want to pick this back up soon. I'm thinking about taking it back to what it was originally;

                This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

                I.e. cutting out the large flak room and the link gun area along with the connecting rooms. I'll Probably also have to move some spawns around to even it out, especially around rocket and belt.

                I'm considering making this change by adding some large doors which remain closed on TSD and open for other gametypes; I was thinking about doing this when the results came out but G.Lecter put a neat little tutorial together for this kinda stuff (just in case anyone is interested in how this would be done).

                I don't know if it's worth doing however. Unlike G.Lecter's example this would be cutting a fairly large chunk of the map out, and would need somewhere in the region of 9 doorways. While it wouldn't be too hard to implement I don't know what the impact on performance would be since the areas in door meshes would need to be dynamically lit etc. You also have the issue of these doorways standing out as obvious doorways, or confusing players who normally play it FFA by removing expected paths and areas.

                Meshing memorable areas seems to be a week point of mine so I'm looking for some advice here (@Clawfist?) People have suggested using colour to pick out areas but it seems like that'd be more useful for highlighting exits and paths rather than making areas iconic. The stream feedback noted the foliage as a possibility but I can't shake the feeling that removing it from a lot of the areas will leave them feeling stark and devoid of any colour. I need to go back and re watch the stream as well as take a good look at outpost to see if I can work some stuff out myself, but any further advice would be a great help.

                Slightly ironically the areas that I'm thinking of cutting are some of the most iconic. The link room for example has a bit more life to it with the big windows and the large flak room has a nice enclosed, dingy feel to it (along with the colour shift to a strong orange then blue for the rear staircase). If I chose to sacrifice the dual usage I could cannibalize some of those cut areas and move them elsewhere (although looking at it I don't quite know where I'd use that style offhand, there aren't many interior spaces if the side paths are removed so maybe that's a moot point). Making it permanently smaller also makes my life easier since there's simply less space to get lost in.

                I guess my main question is what areas in particular stand out, and thus by elimination what areas need more definition?

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                  #38
                  People were asking on discord, also not sure if the current available pak actually works. Fixed a few collision issues too.

                  ===
                  DM-Vacant_RC1b
                  ===

                  Server admin info:
                  Dir: /Game/Maps/DM-Vacant/DM-Vacant_RC1b
                  URL: https://redirect.mpforums.com/ut4/us...wsNoEditor.pak
                  Checksum: e152fc9ed85addea66dd8a290c65c1b8

                  edit: due to a save snafu the dir is entirely wrong, it ended up in the DM-Runic folder ><
                  Last edited by NATO_chrisjm; 09-14-2016, 10:44 PM.

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                    #39
                    So I had a chat with Heresiarch and we hashed out a few ideas. Here's the results in shell form. REALLY want to get some feedback on this since it's a big change. While I don't really want to redo a bunch of meshing it's frankly unavoidable so I best just bite the bullet and get to.



                    Overall a lot smaller and more focused. There's less places to hide and no weapon duplicate weapon spawns anymore.

                    ===
                    DM-Vacant-WIP5
                    ===

                    Server admin info:
                    Dir: /Game/Maps/DM-Vacant/DM-Vacant_WIP5
                    URL: https://redirect.mpforums.com/ut4/us...wsNoEditor.pak
                    Checksum: 2b458f7775fbffa19e8c8124d67f5b20
                    Last edited by NATO_chrisjm; 09-14-2016, 11:03 PM.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by NATO_chrisjm View Post
                      So I had a chat with Heresiarch and we hashed out a few ideas. Here's the results in shell form. REALLY want to get some feedback on this since it's a big change. While I don't really want to redo a bunch of meshing it's frankly unavoidable so I best just bite the bullet and get to.
                      Just to massage your ego slightly, I never felt there was anything wrong with the original layout

                      If I were to interpretate the comments from the stream, I think their overall comments were your design felt like a sprawl. After playing it, I can see what they meant by that as it does appear as if the map has no end, and is a classic 'cross' design, with 45 degree corners as outer paths, with split level trims. This type of design is incredibly difficult to do well, as the issue is always going to be around the multiple choice conundrum, as a player will have too many choices of movement at mass convergence of the geometry. At some points of a cross design, you can have 6 directions to look, 6 directions to defend your position and 4-6 directions to potentially decide to traverse. Not necessarily your map, but just that type of design.

                      You get immense kudos for trying to do it, and if you are guilty of anything, it would be overindulgence of your design; versus a trisector/angle trisection, which a cross design doubles to a hexsector, if there is such a word.

                      What this map needed to avoid that comment from them would have been an atrium at the map centre, which is kinda what you did as you no doubt saw the problem, but a central pillaresque approach closed the map centre and as the map has so many paths and no single paths which are closed or short, this meant giving chase was very hard to do.

                      Ultimately, I would not worry too much about it as the other point they mentioned repeatably and respectfully, is that all submissions are awesome and they are really being picky for the purposes of the competition.

                      Maps:

                      DM-PSi ; DM-Genku ; DM-Untold Storage ; DM-Station (WIP) ; DM-HeatRay Physx (WIP)

                      DM/TSD-Formidable (WIP)

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                        #41
                        BigUp for the update NATO_chrisjm! WIP5 & RC1b Reloaded onto the LoPing.
                        LoPing
                        Explosive High Voltage UT99

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                          #42
                          OK, so even bigger change.



                          I don't know how I feel about this, especially around the belt area. I really wanted it to be risky to go for with the open back but atm it more ends up being somewhere you go once. Also concerned that I've bloated it back up again and it's too big. On the upside however it feels like there's more fighting in the middle now, which was the objective.

                          ===
                          DM-Vacant-WIP6
                          ===

                          Server admin info:
                          Dir: /Game/Maps/DM-Vacant/DM-Vacant_WIP6
                          URL: https://redirect.mpforums.com/ut4/us...wsNoEditor.pak
                          Checksum: a044897b8501a7c6fceef0c42c0efb06

                          edit: first impressions suggest swapping amp and belt

                          edit2: made that change, works nicely. Want to get some more feedback on the new areas before I push another update.
                          Last edited by NATO_chrisjm; 09-20-2016, 09:39 AM.

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                            #43
                            Why new WIP version from your Map NATO?

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                              #44
                              Because it could be better. It didn't have a good test before I started meshing. I've had some great feedback from Clawfist and Heresiarch and I intend to make it the best map it can be.

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                                #45
                                Hey, just gave a quick look to WIP5 and WIP6 to understand what you are so concerned about...

                                Only ran through both layouts in spectator mode for a few minutes, which is definitely not enough for detailed feedback, but my impression is that you're trying to drive the map off-rails to turn it into something different from your initial idea, and that is not good at all IMO. I see what you're trying to do in WIP6 but, honestly, I don't think that turning this level into 'your average DM level with recognisable rooms with a weapon in it each (TM)' is what this map truly needs. There's something really cool in that initial labyrinthic layout with lots of crossings, and I think any further tweak you made to the level should emphasize that concept. The Bio and RocketLauncher rooms look quite out of place to me, and I think that's because they feel too much like 'rooms', whereas pretty much all the stuff from the initial layout is entirely made of intersecting hallways and platforms, where there isn't a clear definition of 'indoors' and 'outdoors'... Your pallete was totally OK with just those elements if you ask me. Of course, you may have tons of trouble at making your spaces recognisable enough, but I think you should accept that as a challenge instead of trying now to run away from it...

                                From my point of view, an imperfect level with a very strong core concept is far better than a more average and forgettable but 'perfect' one. Sooner or later you'll most likely find more stuff which you don't like and you risk falling into an endless loop of tweaks... which will ultimately drive you to the initial version.

                                tl.dr: WIP5 is better IMO. I would suggest ditching the Belt zone completely and making minor tweaks to that layout. BTW, I think your current placement is overusing pickups placed too close to walls and you way want to move some of them (weapons especially) to the middle of rooms which feel a bit empty... Good luck!
                                Last edited by TheGlecter; 09-20-2016, 07:47 PM.
                                DM-Batrankus is out on the UT Marketplace! Enjoy!

                                My UT Maps: | JB-Makoy (UT3JB) | JB-Fragtion2 (UT2004JB) | CTF-Opposite (UT2004) | VCTF-Antropolis (UT2004) |
                                My Puzzle Levels: | Tetrobot and Co. | Portal 2 | Toki Tori |
                                My Localizations: | Killing Floor |

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