[Map][Remake][WIP] DM-Deck [New Version 20180305]

[TheGlecter]

Just played a quick botmatch. It could still have some more detail all around but I really like the way the visuals and lighting are coming along. I also like the extra space in the lifts room and the nearby Sniper zone.

Just a few quick things that came to my mind:
- I noticed you can't jump from the Shock (near the Amp) floor to the LinkGun platform, which you can do in Epic's BSP shell and I think that it would be good.
- You could also add a little dodgeramp to the 25 Armor since doing 2 jumps to grab a small shield piece becomes tiresome quite quickly.
- Both the Sniper-to-Flak hallway, and the RocketLauncher hallway could perhaps be a little bit narrower. Or maybe it's just me that I'm used to Deck's non-vertical walls... I dunno...
- One of the 2 BioRifles could be replaced by the new Grenade Launcher, probably the one at the top. The new weapon currently isn't very popular but that might change in the future and I think it's far more interesting than having 2 Bios in the map.
- The little vent from the Sniper to the Flak is too narrow and feels totally like an afterthought. It's also too long, which might not be good for duels since it can turn into a hiding place. I do like the idea of connecting those zones, though... I think the map would hugely benefit from having a lift/jumpad from somewhere by the 2-healths / 25 armor / Bio room to the Sniper platform. I dunno if it's just me but I very rarely go to the top of the 3-ramps room when playing Deck (and I should, because the 3-ramps room is by far the most iconical space in the map), and I think that's mostly because it is quite disconnected from the rest of the zones.
- Similarly, another route (a dodgeramp?) could be added from the other Sniper to the Bio at the top of the 3-ramps room. IIRC, you had something like that in the past, but it looked too 'narrow and afterthought', pretty much like the current Sniper -> Flak vent. It completely depends on whether you want to experiment with new routes or you want to stick as close to the original as possible, but I think it was a neat idea and could have been fantastic if more geometry tweaks had been made.

Keep up the good work! And yeah, this could perfectly become the official Deck!

[MΛuL]

Thanks for getting this awesome map back in the game chonglee!

[Mr Van]

Yes, thanks Chonglee,

Feedback after after a few rounds TDM with bots:

- like the new connection between sniper platform & flak room!
- the whole right curved wallside between the plus gun waepon pickup and the bil rifle room behind has no weapon collisonl
- same goes for both large wall sides in the lower goo pool: they lack weapon collision, which results in that i was shot, standing in the flak room while looking at the beautiful sun - while rocket projectiles came through the floor from somewhere 'below'
- like the lighnight and overall outside setting! I assume the outside will get some water/a lake within the mountain plateau


Would be nice if you can provide afix for the weapon colsion soo, as the bots know exatly where one is, and attack in a unfair way . I will run thought the map and test some more related to walls & floor weapon missing waepon colision and keep you updated.

Update:
- there are a few more walls in the bio room which miss WC, where the window is

[chonglee]

I will test it, very very thanks !!!!!!!

Looking forward to your feedback!

Awesome! It's already up and running on the MPF hubs. I like the little tunnel connecting the sniper to the flak

Cool! Let me know if anything bugs or suggestions.

Just played a quick botmatch. It could still have some more detail all around but I really like the way the visuals and lighting are coming along. I also like the extra space in the lifts room and the nearby Sniper zone.

Just a few quick things that came to my mind:
- I noticed you can't jump from the Shock (near the Amp) floor to the LinkGun platform, which you can do in Epic's BSP shell and I think that it would be good.
- You could also add a little dodgeramp to the 25 Armor since doing 2 jumps to grab a small shield piece becomes tiresome quite quickly.
- Both the Sniper-to-Flak hallway, and the RocketLauncher hallway could perhaps be a little bit narrower. Or maybe it's just me that I'm used to Deck's non-vertical walls... I dunno...
- One of the 2 BioRifles could be replaced by the new Grenade Launcher, probably the one at the top. The new weapon currently isn't very popular but that might change in the future and I think it's far more interesting than having 2 Bios in the map.
- The little vent from the Sniper to the Flak is too narrow and feels totally like an afterthought. It's also too long, which might not be good for duels since it can turn into a hiding place. I do like the idea of connecting those zones, though... I think the map would hugely benefit from having a lift/jumpad from somewhere by the 2-healths / 25 armor / Bio room to the Sniper platform. I dunno if it's just me but I very rarely go to the top of the 3-ramps room when playing Deck (and I should, because the 3-ramps room is by far the most iconical space in the map), and I think that's mostly because it is quite disconnected from the rest of the zones.
- Similarly, another route (a dodgeramp?) could be added from the other Sniper to the Bio at the top of the 3-ramps room. IIRC, you had something like that in the past, but it looked too 'narrow and afterthought', pretty much like the current Sniper -> Flak vent. It completely depends on whether you want to experiment with new routes or you want to stick as close to the original as possible, but I think it was a neat idea and could have been fantastic if more geometry tweaks had been made.

Keep up the good work! And yeah, this could perfectly become the official Deck!

Hey G.Lecter!

Thanks a lot for the quick detailed feedback!

Yes there will be more details. The current meshes are there to represent the shapes. I haven't even yet started to create the UVs, normal maps, masks. It is just meshes + very rough box UVs for the first lighting pass.

I think you can wall dodge from the SR (amp) to the LG. That is the intention. Not a basic jump. I will test again tonight to see if that wall dodge still works. Sometimes there could be bugs.

Good idea on the ramp to the 25A. I once thought about it but then forgot to do anything.

Haha I guess you are too used to DeckTest's narrow hallways. I feel the widths are good, it is basically one dodge from one side to another, this feels just good to me.

Good idea on replacing one of the Bio with the Grenade Launcher. Let's do it. Things like this worth to try.

The vent, yes it is sort of a afterthought coz I didn't plan to have it and was targeting to make the layout close to the UT3 Deck. Two weeks ago when I played the map I had to ask myself was there anything relatively "safe" to add but interesting at the same time. The layout has to be fixed sooner or later so that I can move on to create the graphic assets. If there are things worth to add/change for the layout, it is now or otherwise too late.

Why the vent?
I generally agree that the sniper platform is well disconnected to the rest areas. This has been in discussion since long time ago. The old versions (2014-2015) of this map had an opening on the side of the sniper platform. Before that I also tried a lift around there in some very early versions. And in DM-TheDeck2004 I tried another kind of connection that was to have a room + a jumppad behind the sniper platform. It worked well given that layout.
The idea of having a lift or a jumppad somewhere around the 2hps and the bio room seems very tempting. I actually put some effort into it. You can see there is a closed door next to the 25A, that was there to see if something could be done but eventually only the door is left.
I didn't do a lift or a jumppad because overall these require a big layout change. I decided to avoid that, at least for this version. Sometimes it is a hard decision to make for things like this.

The vent is made to be that narrow. I tried a wide version and it felt even more like a good hiding spot because it is way more inviting, way more easier to go in and out and less risky. Ideally shortcuts like this should be risky but give you good reward if you manage to use it well. So right now, the vent requires you to do a sliding to go in and out smoothly because of that ramp inside. Yes you are hidden but there's not many benefits doing so, as the LOS is pretty limited. There are other hidden places in this map, like the narrow space behind the crates, they are fine as long as they are mostly passive and not making the layout complicated.

The route from the sniper room to the bio platform was removed when i decided to make this map (or the version) close to UT3 Deck. Also I felt it brought too much additional attention to the lift-sniper area. And I didn't like the fact that you grab a sniper, go through that route and 5 dodges later you are at another sniper. Additionally I think to keep the 3 bridges useful is still important which means easy routes from behind to the top should be avoided. The vent I added is inaccessible without the boots or a weapon jump, this is what i like.

Thanks again for your feedback!

Thanks for getting this awesome map back in the game chonglee!

Thank you for supporting me all the time! I couldn't make it without you guys support!

Yes, thanks Chonglee,

Feedback after after a few rounds TDM with bots:

- like the new connection between sniper platform & flak room!
- the whole right curved wallside between the plus gun waepon pickup and the bil rifle room behind has no weapon collisonl
- same goes for both large wall sides in the lower goo pool: they lack weapon collision, which results in that i was shot, standing in the flak room while looking at the beautiful sun - while rocket projectiles came through the floor from somewhere 'below'
- like the lighnight and overall outside setting! I assume the outside will get some water/a lake within the mountain plateau


Would be nice if you can provide afix for the weapon colsion soo, as the bots know exatly where one is, and attack in a unfair way . I will run thought the map and test some more related to walls & floor weapon missing waepon colision and keep you updated.

Update:
- there are a few more walls in the bio room which miss WC, where the window is

Hey Mr Van!

Very appreciated for your feedback!

Those missing collisions must be related to the recent importing of those meshes, somehow in the new engine build, the collision is turned off in the material id properties and i need to remember to check every meshes.

Yes the plan is to have some alien wetland in the crater, to have some connections to the glowing goo.

I will fix this collision issue tonight after work and submit a new version ASAP. I can't believe i just let such a big bug slipped under my nose!

[Mr Van]

no worries, Chonglee, I don't want to put you under pressure in any way . Really appreciate the hard work you mapping guys do for the community! Thanks!

[chonglee]

No pressure. As a matter of fact, it's very good to see feedback! Then you know you are not wasting time making something nobody cares.
So keep the feedback coming!

[rAge.]

I can see some problems with movement tricks, first of all - it's probably impossible to make a basic jump from the "minigun- amp" bridge to link gun area. It was always possible by simple wall dodge from the middle bridge (very important jump). There also could be possible to jump from one side of acid to another using a belt's pillar or wallrun on teleport wall (above the acid). It needs only minor changes to make them possible. The second thing is ammo placement on lifts, I think there should be 2 packs of rockets ammo, as always been. It's very important in tdm when playing this position. Nearest weapons are shock and rockets and you want to have ammo. The last thing are places where you can fall of the map. It's not so desired I think.

[chonglee]

I can see some problems with movement tricks, first of all - it's probably impossible to make a basic jump from the "minigun- amp" bridge to link gun area. It was always possible by simple wall dodge from the middle bridge (very important jump). There also could be possible to jump from one side of acid to another using a belt's pillar or wallrun on teleport wall (above the acid). It needs only minor changes to make them possible. The second thing is ammo placement on lifts, I think there should be 2 packs of rockets ammo, as always been. It's very important in tdm when playing this position. Nearest weapons are shock and rockets and you want to have ammo. The last thing are places where you can fall of the map. It's not so desired I think.

Hey rAge,

Thanks for the feedback!


The current situation is like this in the above picture. The middle one is a bit difficult currently but doable. I could do a quick fix to make it easier by tweak the collision a little bit.

The belt pillar for wall dodge, it was implemented long ago and is still there. But maybe a bit too difficult. I do it this way:


I could also do a quick fix to make it easier.


The wallrun on the teleport wall. Well, i don't think it's something that matters, but i see your point here, it's just i prefer to keep that wall high enough so that the dodge under it is always fluent. And if fast move from one side to another is needed, you can always do the dodges from one corner to the other although it's a bit predictable. But that area is supposed to be dangerous anyway.

There are double RL ammos just next to the 4 vials in the curvy corridor very close to the lift room. I went through the thinking about whether they should be placed in the lift room down there with the double hp and the vest and the SR and the double SR ammos or not, and eventually i figured that lift room doesn't have to be that busy.

I would like to see a stronger reasoning on why the 2 RL ammos have to be there.

Oh and those places where you can fall out of the map. One in the RL room, there is the railing, a normal dodge won't be enough for you to jump over. Another one in the Flak pool but that one is gameplay wise useless, it is there just to give a view of the outside, but of course if it turns out people go there very often i might have to think about blocking it. The last one is in the bio gun room, that one needs a railing and that is in my plan but haven't done yet.


Update:

I am fixing the bullet collision issues and doing a few slight collision changes for the difficult jumps. In less than one hour the map will be updated.

Update 2:

Uploading the new one.

[chonglee]

A new version 20161024 is now available for download from here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...wsNoEditor.pak

Changes:
- Fixed the bullet collision issues.
- Tweaked the minigun bridge collision to make the jump from that bridge to the LG platform easier. This is a quick fix that might need follow-up to see if further improvement is needed.
- Tweaked the belt pillar collision to make the jump from one side to the other easier.
- Fixed two navmesh issues i just spot.

[rAge.]

EDIT: I typed this post before the new version.
In the first case I thought about the middle one, still can't do this, maybe my movement skills sucks (which I honestly doubt ) or I trying to do this in a wrong way. Just like with the second jump (across the pillar) I just didn't thought about the easiest solution - I tried to do this by dodge and instantly walldodge. Just like you said, those jumps through the acid are not any important and rarely used, but still they gives us more opportunities. I can agree about the ammo, those 2 packs are close enough.
The biggest problem with those "windows" is allowing cheap kills, when your enemy just throw you out off the map. That posibility should be blocked in my opinion.

EDIT 2 I just tried new version, that jump from the central bridge is now possible for me. I have around 50% efficiency in doing it, could be a bit better and more fluid (just try how easy it is on decktest )

[chonglee]

EDIT: I typed this post before the new version.
In the first case I thought about the middle one, still can't do this, maybe my movement skills sucks (which I honestly doubt ) or I trying to do this in a wrong way. Just like with the second jump (across the pillar) I just didn't thought about the easiest solution - I tried to do this by dodge and instantly walldodge. Just like you said, those jumps through the acid are not any important and rarely used, but still they gives us more opportunities. I can agree about the ammo, those 2 packs are close enough.
The biggest problem with those "windows" is allowing cheap kills, when your enemy just throw you out off the map. That posibility should be blocked in my opinion.

Try the new version and see if the jump is easier.
I will keep tweaking these as sometimes between different UT builds the movement system itself is changing.
As for the windows, I will think about again and see if I could come up with something good. The bio room one definitely needs a fix but the flak room one, not so sure but let me think.

[[PHX]Big_Deal]

Hi
There is a bug in your map where you can shoot through the wall. The other problem is that in Elimination players will spawn inside the this wall. Thx for your work.

[chonglee]

Hey Big_Deal,

Don't use 20161023. That one has the bullet collision issues.
I just did another quick test in 20161024 and the same wall as the one in your picture, has no such issue now. As for the spawning issue, I need to check it in the editor later today.

@rAge,

Got it! I will further improvement on that bridge. I am being too conservative. Please also try the other jumps and let me know how you feel about it.

Update:

After checking the map in the editor, there is indeed a playerstart got left in the wall.
It will be addressed very soon!

[Economic]

The map already runs on a HUB

[Danko955]

looks good, i can finally move freely there without getting stuck anywhere lol.
if i could change something that would be area near sniper with goo pool up there. maybe make it deeper or something or change those sideway paths a bit