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[Map][Remake][WIP] DM-Deck [New Version 20180305]

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    #16
    Originally posted by lamarpavel View Post
    Interesting new routes, would love to test the gameplay to find out how they hold up in gameplay scenarios. The route from the lift jump to the upper platform is very interesting in particular but might open up the navigational advantage of experienced players (read: Those with a grasp of the movement and a knowledge of the map) too much in comparison to new players. But that would have to be tested. Along the same road but more drastic (and imho more problematic) I find the "windows" from the top platform along the longer side of the main hall down to the hallway with the crates.
    Deck always had the characteristic of allowing players to evade enemies for several seconds. The routes were limited and one could easily be trapped and intercepted, but if in need it was possible to evade the line of sight at least for some tens of seconds. I see no such opportunity in your version of the map as a broken line of sight can much quicker be regained. For a map to work in a death match with more than two players there have to be spots with at most two angles of attack, otherwise you are constantly subject to potentially frustrating situations of getting killed by someone not on your radar. This is not to say that such situations should not be possible, but they should be limited to a few spots in the map where you can chose to expose yourself for the benefit of some item of interest.

    Also with as many connections between the rooms the gameplay will probably be much more hectic. I appreciate that, but it changes the context of four parts of the map that possibly only work with slower gameplay: The ramps. Three of them in the main room and one above the small goo pit near the elevators. These ramps are harder to navigate than horizontal ground and no one would walk them upwards if they didn't have to. In UT99 and UT2k4 this was the big catch and part of the balancing of the map as you absolutely had to climb these ramps in order to get to important points. In your version of the map there are alternative ways that are less exposed and much quicker (the lift jump for example). This essentially makes the two steep ramps in the main hall useless. The middle ramp still makes sense but is a more dangerous part now than it was before. The small ramp above the goo pit is less exposed but still out of balance with the more hectic style that your map seems to favor. I would try to replace it with a jump pad (or two successive jump pads for a less predictable air movement).
    Of cause all this is just theory, it might work better than I expect. But if you find that the two steep ramps in the main hall are barely ever used you might want to re-think the other access paths to the high ground.

    Looking forward to more updates.
    Good points,
    For the lift to the sniper platform thing, I personally doubt if there should be a lift, I added it just so that I can see the feedback, in the previous version, there is no lift. It smells problematic.
    For the window where you can see the vials by the boxes, my simple intention is I don't like the fact that player can just go into that tunnel and evade back to the SR and the amp, That said, I do realize that it create another issue that you can camp and ambush too comfortably. And another thing is for now I have not yet put enough thought into that flak tunnel yet, somehow I want to see something more interesting, different than the UT3 version.
    Personally I don't think for DM with more than 2 players there have to be ten seconds line of sight occlusion sort of thing, because there are lots of good examples of popular DM maps, not only in UT, but also in Quake, show the opposite.
    And you are right, exposed area usually should always for benefits, that is exactly why I opened up the window in the first place, but how far it should go, I need good feedback like yours

    About the bridges, yeah I thought about that before adding the new alternative paths, I even thought about my UT2K4 remake for this map, TheDeck2004, one conclusion is, in TheDeck2004, the alternative paths were too safe and comfortable compared to the main room, so I want to avoid that this time. But it is tricky because the main room is just this exposed, and to add alternative paths without reducing the usefulness of the bridges is really a tough task. So this actually led me to 2 modifications: 1) The window where you can see the vials, more benefits right in front of the bridge, 2) Pillars to provide a little bit for covers.
    But it is tricky.
    Yes, thanks for your feedback, now I feel more faith in my original plan that is not to have a lift next to the sniper platform.

    About the ramp above the goo pit, I haven't even started to do anything for it, in the next few days, I hope.

    Thank you very much!
    Last edited by chonglee; 05-10-2014, 11:09 AM.
    [WIP]: DM-Deck(Remake) | DM-DeepBlue | DM-Peak(Remake)

    My stuff: @ Youtube | @ Small site | @ My blog

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      #17
      Originally posted by van Kuss View Post
      Inoxx? The original and only one?
      I'm sorry but no.
      I saw that there was someone else who had the same surname as me but I'm not the original.
      Sorry

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        #18
        Originally posted by frøsty View Post
        Loved the new navigation route from flak cannon to sniper nest.
        Also liked the opportunity to actually look outside: I know it's just a wip but having an "open" Deck might be interesting, I'd keep the flak area transparent to the outside, not really sure about the rocket area.
        Haha, I am happy you like it. My plan is to invite more open air into this map, the original one is too closed. Yeah the flak tunnel will also benefit from this. And the RL room, it is on the side that you can see the city in the vista and the big dam (or waterfall) to your right.
        I even think maybe this map can be named like Decky Dam, sounds weirdly interesting.

        Originally posted by InoxX View Post
        Amazing !
        But the elevator near the Udamage ... shame. I think you should remove this elevator, it's too easy.

        Yeah, good to know more people dislike it so I can make the decision of removing it.
        [WIP]: DM-Deck(Remake) | DM-DeepBlue | DM-Peak(Remake)

        My stuff: @ Youtube | @ Small site | @ My blog

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          #19
          Originally posted by chonglee View Post

          Yeah, good to know more people dislike it so I can make the decision of removing it.
          It will be better to do a trick on the wall to have the Udamage

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            #20
            Originally posted by InoxX View Post
            It will be better to do a trick on the wall to have the Udamage
            Oh, but, the amp is not there any more. It is now on the roof.
            [WIP]: DM-Deck(Remake) | DM-DeepBlue | DM-Peak(Remake)

            My stuff: @ Youtube | @ Small site | @ My blog

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              #21
              Originally posted by chonglee View Post
              Oh, but, the amp is not there any more. It is now on the roof.
              Oh yes, sorry !
              So, is there something here ?

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                #22
                Show us the other maps too if you can, would be awesome
                http://i.imgur.com/6dJ1rdc.jpg

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                  #23
                  ChongLee hey! I hope you remember me lol

                  The map somewhat reminds to another game with shiny blanks surfaces buildings whom game's name cant recall, sexy what pallning do you have with this map?

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                    #24
                    I like this map the most from the OU beta maps

                    It looks like it would really work well as a 1v1/2v2 or 4v4 map, the design aspects you've added are mostly good

                    The only bad point is the lifts, the lift jump is wayyyyyyyy too high, the design kind of strips it like Deck17 does

                    You could still get up to that right side area by hammer/shield jumping off the lift, in fact that's a trick to get into the windows too

                    The redeemer spot above lifts was also more open in deck16, this allowed people to come out through the portal and either drop down or dodge over and out into the middle area through the windows, a popular route which opened up the map

                    It's impossible to tell how the map will work until we have an alpha to practice with, but this looks very sound

                    GJ

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                      #25
                      For a textureless map, it looks fantastic already! Loving the mix of indoor and outdoor spaces.

                      As much as I'd want the Bio platform to have more use, I have to agree with lamarpavel's thoughts on the usefulness of the main room's ramps. The liftjump from Shock to Bio is probably my least favourite part right now, and it doesn't look very well scaled anyway. I kinda like the window to cover the Flak hallway from above, though... The other hole from Sniper to Flak will be fine as a drop-down, as long as the lift is removed, but you may want to close it up a little so you can't spam flak secondary from bellow so easily.

                      I love the new Amp placement aswell, although I kinda felt there was too much useless space by the Rocket (now outdoors) area.

                      Looking forward to seeing the progress! If there's any chance for this to become an official map, I'd say don't go much wilder with the changes from the original level...
                      Last edited by TheGlecter; 05-10-2014, 12:46 PM.
                      DM-Batrankus is out on the UT Marketplace! Enjoy!

                      My UT Maps: | JB-Makoy (UT3JB) | JB-Fragtion2 (UT2004JB) | CTF-Opposite (UT2004) | VCTF-Antropolis (UT2004) |
                      My Puzzle Levels: | Tetrobot and Co. | Portal 2 | Toki Tori |
                      My Localizations: | Killing Floor |

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                        #26
                        I'm not very well qualified to judge which addition will enhance or hurt gameplay, but I do appreciate your ability to visualize new routes and modification to a classic map. Seeing them on video was pleasantly surprising.

                        Even if most of them do not work out or make the final cut, I would like to commend you for the effort. It is fascinating how a few tiny adjustments can alter important areas and gameplay.

                        Personally I like seeing "re-imaginings" more than remakes of originals, despite all the nostalgia I may have. The only caution I have for you is for waaay down the line when you get to decorating it. What came to my mind when you mentioned it being a dam was CTF-Hydro16 and its remake for UT3. I really liked the original Hydro, both for its layout and the distinct environment. When it was remade for UT3, while it kept the fun layout, I felt it lost a bit of its soul (the color pallet was dull, the radioactive goo pit was removed, the color contrast, etc). Now I know you plan on doing a nice outside environment which I am excited about, and I did enjoy the art direction of TheDecks2004. Just maybe not as much industrial clutter, etc. Since Deck has a very similar visual style I would hate to see it loose some flair. Sorry if I am being a bit of a worry wart here!

                        http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/im...TF-Hydro16.jpg
                        http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/im...F-Hydrosis.jpg

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by G.Lecter View Post
                          For a textureless map, it looks fantastic already! Loving the mix of indoor and outdoor spaces.

                          As much as I'd want the Bio platform to have more use, I have to agree with lamarpavel's thoughts on the usefulness of the main room's ramps. The liftjump from Shock to Bio is probably my least favourite part right now, and it doesn't look very well scaled anyway.
                          Well, without that lift jump being possible, the map as it is would be absolutely unviable as the sniper nest side would be totally overpowered.

                          I think most changes are good and make for a more fast paced and intricate map design, but the usefullness of the ramps is a very valid point, there is currently no reason to go there.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by G.Lecter View Post
                            For a textureless map, it looks fantastic already! Loving the mix of indoor and outdoor spaces.
                            This "textureless map" creation is known as white boxing.

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                              #29
                              Like the atmosphere of the open deck. Hopefully you will allow players to push others off the deck for a kill!
                              a.k.a Gunner77

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                                #30
                                This is how people should always showcase their wip maps imo, without textures.

                                It focuses on the important part, the map with no texture clutter.

                                Texturing comes after the map is more or less final.

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