DM-Coma - A015 - UT 0.1.12.1 cook

[Flikswich]

I love the teleport, also it's exactly the same time going from belt to vest via the tele as it is without so it doesn't really give you any extra pickup control.

[userod]

still think teleport should be removed, take a look at this: game between two very high skill players ending in two telefrags...

[Flikswich]

The teleporter isn't at fault there, it's the fact that they were dancing through it back and forth. Something like that could be solved by making the exit in a slightly different place to the entrance of the other tele. Not too far away, maybe 1 dodge distance so you can't adad through it.

[BigFatErik]

^^ yeah that would be a good solution - offset the teleporter exits so they are about 1/2 to 1 full dodge away from the entrance, making "random" telefrags less likely.

Another solution might be taken from Quake Live - I remember on certain maps, teleporter exits would dump you out a few feet in the air, so you would spend a fraction of a second falling (while still maintaining momentum in the direction you wanted to go). This might also prevent super fast spamming between teleporters, and reduce the "randomness" of telefrags when trying to give chase.

Just a thought, since epic added that HORRID feature of not being able to telefrag someone with a shield belt, wouldnt that give a big advantage to someone if they went through the teleporter, and body blocked the exit when someone tries to chase?? Uh oh, I think I found a strategy to exploit :S

If they wanted to remove telefragging on belts, you should just bounce off the person like theyre a wall instead of exploding yourself. But now we're getting off onto another topic. Anyway, hows the level going, [MENTION=6464]insomnaut[/MENTION] ? Any upcoming changes based on feedback? Do you have a theme in mind? It's a fun little map that's enjoyable to play, and I hope it only gets better!!

[-Designer-]

overall map is awesome! teleport is great idea, i cannot understand why so many ppl hate it... it makes game more tense, and interesting...
biggest problem is **** weapon and armor balance, ut4 atm has the worst duel balance i have ever seen in fps game since quake world.

[insomnaut]

Hi there! I was away a few days, excuse me a delayed reply.

I've been looking into the 2-way teleport carefully since I introduced it with Coma_A004's release. The feedback regarding this feature is diverse, also it seems it has been changing over time. People seemed to be confused initially, in the best case ;] I knew it would take some time for the idea to grow on people, so I've been taking my time, keeping myself away from hasty changes, listening to feedback and watching dozens of replays to catch any nuisancess (and to see if people swear a lot at me xD).

My most recent conclusion is to try to keep the teleporter being 2-way. I'll keep the idea of turning the teleporter into 1-way as my plan B (entry near the stinger lift, exit above the flak).

Having this declared, telefragging remains an issue. On the other hand, telefragging is here to prevent, and punish, dancing through teleporters in a ADHD manner. I don't defend telefragging - I share the viewpoint there's no place for it in duel, but at the same time, teleports being overly abused may be confusing to a degree at which they appear to be a broken mechanics. Well, a nature of a 2-way teleporters in a nutshell... Exits are currently offset a bit and I don't have enough space to offset them more - that would lead to bumping into the pillar above the flak or kicking towards the vials too much at the bottom (aka 'basement'). Plus, I don't really think this would change occurence of telefrags significantly. Moving the exits up a bit seems a better solution to me, for the time being, though not really satisfying.

A perfect solution would be a teleporter exit behaving like a playerstart. There's no telefragging at playerstars in this game as playerstars work more like a circular areas, not like points, so the game can safely spawn a few characters at once on a single spot. Too bad teleports don't work the same way. I understand telefrags were introduced as an anti-teleport-camper solution, but after so many years I don't see them being appropriate or design-wise anymore (maybe this case deserves a discussion on a separate thread?).

still think teleport should be removed, take a look at this: game between two very high skill players ending in two telefrags...

It's been some time, so I'll ask because your view might change - if telefrags weren't an issue, would you still opt for removing the teleport? What's your view on turning it into 1-way (with the exit pointing at belt)? Would that be ok?

after some plays - rocket launcher AND sniper rifle AND thighpads spawning right next to each other is a bit op imo

Yeah, I'm not overly satisfied with thighpads' placement. It may seem a bit OP, but what bothers me even more is the flow could have been better there. Not sure yet what to do with it, but probably I won't leave it like it is now in the following version.

Anyway, hows the level going, insomnaut? Any upcoming changes based on feedback? Do you have a theme in mind? It's a fun little map that's enjoyable to play, and I hope it only gets better!!

I'll continue working on it this weekend and try to not break anything ;] Except the issues mentioned above (teleporter, pads), I may try out map's original scale (A004 and A005 were 5% downscaled with Map Scaler tool). It won't change a lot, pacing may seem slower a bit (which I don't like, because fast pacing = fun), but a little more space for combos is worth a try. Also, I am worried not being sure wether a maplock is too easy currently. It wasn't a massive complaint at all during ESL 1v1 OC, literally one person reached me out with this, but I saw a demo replay before the cup where it looked bad (US players, not sure if it wasn't you Chimmi, who got locked with enforcer? Well, it's been a month ago, so you may not recall). Scaling map up a bit won't solve it, but should serve as a small step forward.

It's quite probable I'll alter item placement again. Thighpads are the trigger for the changes to come tbh. I may end up with helmet added and stinger moved. We'll see. I am aware not everyone liked belt and vest being now placed on one side, but I'll keep it for the time being.

Regarding the theme - I've been collecting references for some time, so I have some blurry idea. If there are no critical visibility issues, I'll keep the lighting color scheme and start to iterate on cyberpunkish post-industrial/urban enviroment (Gears meet Batman Arkham, but brighter). It's still too early to go into details, but I can tell I don't want to go 100% custom, rather trying to reuse Epic's assets as much as possible and fitting my theme. The shell is not ready yet and needs to be finished/improved in the first place.

overall map is awesome! teleport is great idea, i cannot understand why so many ppl hate it... it makes game more tense, and interesting...
biggest problem is **** weapon and armor balance, ut4 atm has the worst duel balance i have ever seen in fps game since quake world.

Teleporter does some nice job providing a bit of danger to the belt area, as intended. It also creates an illusion of dynamics while not really speeding things up or shortening distances. I'd would love to keep it.
Regarding the balance - I'm trying my best, but I am sure I overlook lots of things. Let me know if you would like to address a particular issue or scenario. I await any suggestions with arms wide open!




Thank you guys!

[ConradJustin]

Ciekawy layout, zgrabnie wykonany, mapa bardzo dynamiczna! Dobra robota! Nie mogę się doczekac az zaczniesz dodawac meshe, detale i texturki. Keep it up!

Taka grafika z internetu. Pewnie juz ja widziales: http://40.media.tumblr.com/a4be99d80...95mo1_1280.jpg
Wyglada na to, ze faktycznie cyberpunkowe wnetrza sa b. ciemne: http://orig09.deviantart.net/9dfd/f/...mo-d7k5al1.jpg

Deszcz wpadajacy do pomieszczen przez dziury w dachu... Mroczne, metalowe textury, balaganiarkie, nieco przerdzeiwle mechanizmy sterczace ze scian... Mozliwosci sa ciekawe.

[RTG`]

This is my favorite map now, thank you so much for making it! I just enjoy the gameplay there, its fast and exciting that makes me ****** while playing. If someone is interested in playing it with me please contact me, because I can't get enough of it. I can play this map all the time.

[Freakability]

Hi insomnaut,

is there an updated version of the map that is compatible to the current build?
The map is running on the HUB [ESL-EU] [Freakability Warfare] and I want to update it.
Thanks in advance

[insomnaut]

Ciekawy layout, zgrabnie wykonany, mapa bardzo dynamiczna! Dobra robota! Nie mogę się doczekac az zaczniesz dodawac meshe, detale i texturki. Keep it up!

Taka grafika z internetu. Pewnie juz ja widziales: http://40.media.tumblr.com/a4be99d80...95mo1_1280.jpg
Wyglada na to, ze faktycznie cyberpunkowe wnetrza sa b. ciemne: http://orig09.deviantart.net/9dfd/f/...mo-d7k5al1.jpg

Deszcz wpadajacy do pomieszczen przez dziury w dachu... Mroczne, metalowe textury, balaganiarkie, nieco przerdzeiwle mechanizmy sterczace ze scian... Mozliwosci sa ciekawe.

Ogromnie Cię przepraszam za brak odpowiedzi, ale bardzo dużo działo się u mnie przez ostatni miesiąc i musiałem trochę odpuścić z UT :/ Ale było warto, bo dostałem nową pracę
Ok, z szacunku do innych użytkowników, zostańmy w postach przy języku angielskim Jakbyś chciał luźno pogadać, zapraszam na prv albo polskie forum @ unreal.pl


So... Personally I love the work you're doing with DM-Broken, so it's even greater pleasure to me to see your kind words on DM-Coma. Really glad you like it.

I have a rough idea on where to go with the details and it seems you read my intentions quite well. It's going to be a mix of references you've provided with post-industrial urban arena, with scraps of metal plates and pieces. I'm pretty sure there's a name for a sci-fi enviromental theme like that, but I couldn't resolve it. Megadeth's Threat is Real video uses this enviromental setting, though in cartoon-like form. Naming it precisely could really help me get references quicker. So, if I can handle that I would go with something like this mixed with bricks and stuff you can already see on the map. Also, I keep this one as a reference.

I'm going to stick to the general cyberpunk vibe, neons aside, with a bit darker lighting and clear plain backgrounds to maintain decent visibility. Limiting details only to places where they won't disturb players may appear to be quite challenging, but time will tell. I can't wait to start meshing it, too! Especially after over-a-month-long pause on working on it. Lacking 3D art skills atm, but I expect my new job to fix that problem for me very soon ;]

Heavy rain and dark cloudy skies would make the atmosphere really dense, which is what I would like, but I can't tell atm if I'm going to take this path. Depends on map performance I'll get after meshing. I'll go for some vfx magic if I end up with performance margin at my disposal. Keeping up map's tourney status is a top priority to me, so it needs to run as smooth as possible. Cyberpunk theme provides some cool flexibility, and like you've noticed - many interesting opportunities.

Cheers!

This is my favorite map now, thank you so much for making it! I just enjoy the gameplay there, its fast and exciting that makes me ****** while playing. If someone is interested in playing it with me please contact me, because I can't get enough of it. I can play this map all the time.

Thank you, man! You've made my day better

Hi insomnaut,

is there an updated version of the map that is compatible to the current build?
The map is running on the HUB [ESL-EU] [Freakability Warfare] and I want to update it.
Thanks in advance

Hi there! Thx for following me on twitter!

There wasn't a version compatible with the current build, until now




UPDATE A006 (4.12 recook, OP updated):

DM-Coma_A006-WindowsNoEditor.pak

There's a one major change - scale.

A004 and A005 were scaled down to 95% before cooking and releasing. This time I wanted to see how the map works with its native scale I use in editor. So, expect A006 to be about 5.3% bigger than previous version.
I am aware Coma may feel slower with that change, but on the other hand there are some benefits which may be worthy to take the risk, like:
- more space for maneuver, shootouts and combos;
- a bit more time needed to pick up all items (maplock-wise it may still be not enough, but let's see if it gets any better before I change anything layout-related);

I've finally replaced all PlayerStarts with UTPlayerStarts.

Teleport setup remains the same, so expect the same 2-way old buggy behaviour. Scale change probably will add some bugs to the package, also making some old jumps'n'tricks harder than before. This time, please, forgive me on this. Bug and glitch fixes will follow. Of course feel free to point me everything you see wrong with the map, the more doubts you will express the better as long as you keep yourself constructive.

Let's focus on the map scale with this version. Let me know if the current one is the one you think I should settle on. If you liked the previous scale more, let me know too. I understand it will take some time for you all to try, but please remember to come back and leave your feedback.

And finally - thank you all for making it so popular in ESL! It means hell a lot to me!

[legionz]

I like the scale change. The map is better this way.

[Berserker_BUL]

Nooo.. Its very slow for me now ;_;

Doesn't matter, I still love it!!!! Keep up the good work!

[insomnaut]

[MENTION=9082]legionz[/MENTION], [MENTION=31400]RTG-[/MENTION], thx for sharing your views, guys.

Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, a bit of slowdown is a side effect I had been expecting. Glad to know it did not ruin the map completely for you.
I hope to see more opinions on the scale matter anytime soon.

[ÐutchSmºke]

BigUp for the quicklink fix insomnaut! Reloaded onto the LoPing.

[KmKz]

Hello [MENTION=6464]insomnaut[/MENTION], I would like to introduce myself, KmKz, as a competitive and aspiring high level dueler, alongside my partner [MENTION=11729]paranoid_banana[/MENTION] (nanaz) who made a video showcasing all the changes we suggest for your map. This is the video:

https://youtu.be/EF7yne3MONs

We have loved the map since the original concept and thought it had a lot of potential to be a competitive duel map, so we are more than happy for it to be in ESL. However, as it currently sits, it isn't in a good spot, sorry to say. The biggest issue is how the map can be extremely one sided due to how absolutely easy it is to lock out the map. We provide what I think are unique and great suggestions to the map, and put it in a much better state than it currently is. Please take a look and tell us what you think!

And just to add some more analysis from the video (watch the video first!):

At 2:00, when nanz is discussing covering line of sight, you can currently harass and poke and even kill opponents that try to go for not only the vest but thigh pads as well. So, belt area is overpowered, not only in the rotational ability from that area throughout the map but the angles you can hold by simply sitting there. Adding a sliding wall protects the vest (or what will hopefully be helmet) area, and moving thigh pads to Mini removes the ability to harass opponents going for that armor.

At 3:00, when nanz is talking about the lift movement jump, I should add that you can do the same kind of move but even faster with less dodges to thigh pads. The rotational power that the lift has is overwhelming. Making a small jump pad purely to belt alone remedies that entirely.

At 5:00, when nanz is mentioning that specific routing, it really is concerning. Removing those dodge ramps help, and the sound queue from the jump pad helps, and you should test that out at first. However, that specific route gives you nearly immediate access to the center of the map; furthermore, if you agree with our armor change suggestions, then you'd be right in the middle of thigh pads/helmet, so it'd become more of a common route because it is such a key position. Consequently, I am not convinced it really solves the issue of that area.

The real suggestion is to maybe look to remove that jump pad entirely but leave the area open for things like an off-angle peek shot off to keep the map, AND for a risky power play of a self-harm (impact hammer, rocket) jump. In which, both suggestions keep the map true to the openness and is still fast paced and aggressive, but I think it would really help balance out the map. It would also be a bit of unique gameplay on the map, as I don't think other maps really take into consideration of a possible self-harm jump. That would be the ultimate solution, but first removing the dodge ramps itself to play-test the simple effect of that is the smarter move for now. Just keep the other solution in mind, as I most likely think you would have to implement that in the end to really perfect the map.

If you have any further questions or want further and deeper analysis on each of the changes we suggested, we would absolutely love to comply and give as much feedback as we possibly can. Hopefully, you think our suggestions are as wonderful as we think they are! Thanks for your time, insomnaut.