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    [PROTOTYPE] DM-Coma - A015 - UT 0.1.12.1 cook

    Hello everyone. [Description updated 02-19-2016]

    I would like to share a new version of my duel map DM-Coma, finally redone from scratch with many changes applied. There are too many to write them all down and explain. The map is not completely redesigned, most of the layout is the same, but the feeling is different. Every area has been remodeled as in overall I tried to make it more like an UT4 map than a converted UT99 map it was before.

    The aim was of course to apply as much of the feedback given to me as possible, but also to simplify things a bit, make the map easier to read and navigate, make a better use of space available. I did my best to provide more space to fight and better sight lines - while the whole enviroment has been scaled down a little (with a great Map Scaler tool by RattleSN4K3).

    There are some important changes to the item placement - just to mention the Shock Rifle being swapped with Armor Vest.

    It's definitely not a final shell, there's a plenty of semi-random details, clearly unfinished stuff and lots of misalignments. Some ideas needs to be proven in game, some other will be incorporated soon. I've left a few notes on the map to express some thoughts.
    I hope you'll enjoy and look forward to your feedback. Have fun!





    Latest PAK: DM-Coma_A015-WindowsNoEditor.pak [Pak updated 07-13-2017]

    If you are a server admin, these may be useful to you:

    Code:
    + CustomMapList=/Game/DM-Coma/Maps/DM-Coma_A015
    + RequiredPackages=DM-Coma_A015-WindowsNoEditor
    + RedirectReferences=(PackageName="DM-Coma_A015-WindowsNoEditor", PackageURLProtocol="https", PackageURL="YOUR_OWN_REDIRECT_URL", PackageChecksum="c3ca81c8da4c7c5e2a07d9afe30100a5")

    Thanks to:
    - admins who run hubs and servers - for being so cool and positive to host the map
    - my folks at #ut4.pl IRC channel and forum.unreal.pl - for continuous support
    - all the people from the IRC channel #UnrealTournament - for every word so far
    - everyone - for every bit of feedback and every match played on the map

    Cheers!



    Version A015:
    - UE4.15 recook [UTbuild 0.1.12.1],

    Version A014:
    - UE4.15 recook [UTbuild 0.1.12],

    Version A013:
    - UE4.15 recook [UTbuild 0.1.11 released on 05/16/2017],

    Version A012:
    - UE4.15 recook [UTbuild 0.1.10 released on 04/18/2017],

    Version A011:
    - UE4.15 recook [UTbuild 0.1.9 released on 03/28/2017],

    Version A010:
    - UE4.15 recook [UTbuild 0.1.8 released on 02/22/2017],

    Version A009:
    - UE4.15 recook [UTbuild 0.1.7.1 released on 01/26/2017],

    Version A008:
    - UE4.14 recook [UTbuild 0.1.6 released on 11/10/2016],

    Version A007:
    - UE4.14 recook [UTbuild 0.1.5 released on 10/18/2016],

    Version A006:
    - UE4.12 recook,
    - released with its native scale, around 5.3% bigger then previously

    Version A005:
    - RL-lift liftjumps improved,
    - fixed blocking volumes behind Armor Vest - no jumping up on the shelves above the armor allowed anymore,
    - 1 health vial added above the Thigh Pads (now 4),
    - most of the text on walls have been removed or hidden,
    - hopefully (not sure yet) fixed teleport glitch - both teleports setup was causing player's direction to be messed up sometimes.

    Version A004:
    - shell WIP redone from scratch
    - new WIP lighting
    - item placement changes

    Initial versions - updates archive (from A001 to A003SE2):

     
    Spoiler
    Last edited by insomnaut; 07-13-2017, 08:07 PM.
    @insomnaut aka charon / DM-Coma / ArmorWare

    #2
    Had a good run around in there. Good job so far! The overall layout seems fun.

    I too have some concerns about the scale. Not that I am an expert on this, of course, I only recently started playing too.

    First thing I would suggest is to try and get some more variation in size of hallways and paths in general. Currently almost all of the main spaces feel very uniform and scaled similarly to each other. Getting some tighter hallways here and there, and maybe simplifying or removing some of the interconnected paths might help bring some identity into the map.
    DM-Kosko (A04) | DM-Backspace (Released!) | DM-Veracity (A01)| DM-Smog (A01) | DM-Conflux (A02)

    Comment


      #3
      A nice little map!

      I think you have the scale about right too. It's fun to run around in anyhow with plenty of opportunities for trick jumps without making getting around too easy. Of course that's just with me alone in the map, the real test will be online with other players.

      I realize materials are just place holders for now but the roof material on walls was odd. I actually did a double take when seeing it from across the map... "WTH? That can't be roof there! Is there a window I somehow didn't notice when I was there?" I had to run across the map and check.

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you guys

        Originally posted by Scinbed View Post
        I too have some concerns about the scale. Not that I am an expert on this, of course, I only recently started playing too.
        Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
        I think you have the scale about right too. It's fun to run around in anyhow with plenty of opportunities for trick jumps without making getting around too easy. Of course that's just with me alone in the map, the real test will be online with other players.
        Yeah, I started recently too and game's scale seemed a bit weird at first, but I'm starting to get used to Playing lots of different maps definitely helps a lot to get a subjective feeling, and then, coming back to my map and playing it once more gets me more convinced that the current scale and map size work quite decent at 1on1. Until some more playtesting does not prove otherwise, I will keep the current scale. A few opinions I get so far were also optimistic on that. Like MoxNix noticed, the map transisted into new UT with some nice and funny possibilities given by the movement and so. I was really afraid at the beginning how it will turn out. Yesterday I witnessed 4on4 TDM on it and... well, I thought it will be a lot worse Possibly 2on2 would work better.


        Originally posted by Scinbed View Post
        First thing I would suggest is to try and get some more variation in size of hallways and paths in general. Currently almost all of the main spaces feel very uniform and scaled similarly to each other. Getting some tighter hallways here and there, and maybe simplifying or removing some of the interconnected paths might help bring some identity into the map.
        Similar scale of main areas was intended. I didn't want to do any too wide opened area, but still wanted to have some nice sniping spots. You are absolutely right about identity and the feel of overall uniformity. I know this makes a new player confused at respawns, as the map has no real visual guidance right now. It's a subject I must take care of the most in near future.


        Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
        I realize materials are just place holders for now but the roof material on walls was odd. I actually did a double take when seeing it from across the map... "WTH? That can't be roof there! Is there a window I somehow didn't notice when I was there?" I had to run across the map and check.
        Oh yeah, I knew using it may be weird It's a placeholder of course - I simply wanted to make those walls stand out somehow and I guess by your notice that I succeded, hahaha ;D
        Last edited by insomnaut; 03-23-2015, 01:56 PM.
        @insomnaut aka charon / DM-Coma / ArmorWare

        Comment


          #5
          Needs better scaling IMO, coz I feel like a garden gnome in it :< However, wasn't bad in 4v4, but if the scaling was right, it would be more of a duel map or 2v2/3v3 max. Also I believe that it needs to be less super mario in the future and more like outpost 32 - futuristic, unreal, not counter-strike'ish :]
          Last edited by Seban; 03-24-2015, 06:40 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            UPDATE!

            DM-Coma_A002-WindowsNoEditor.pak

            Change list:
            - gameplay / floorplan - a new shortcut path introduced to improve map navigation (some notes at the bottom of post)
            - gameplay - belt-area lift adjusted to make liftjump/walldodge move to health-vials a bit easier, but not trivial
            - gameplay - biorifle-area / linkgun-area lift slowed down a bit to make direct liftjump/walldodge move to the armor vest a bit easier
            - gameplay - jumppads adjusted for more air control and transport options
            - gameplay - fixed maneuverability around armor vest - nicer elevation side-profile allows a more fluent jumps
            - gameplay - playerstart points adjusted a bit to help identify respawn area (nothing big really, still needs a proper visual guidance)
            - gameplay / technical - texture scale fixed and forced to default to properly reflect the map scale when compared to other maps using same shell materials (editor somehow breaks it during bsp build); should improve overall map scale sensing
            - technical - map blocked from the top using blockall volume
            - technical - some geometry was simplified and reimported; manual BSP fixes (weld+create ftw!)
            - technical - screenshot preview added

            Screenshots to compare - forced default texture scaling is visible; now properly reflects the map scale:



            A new path introduced, making a lot of opportunities (blue wall on pics below)



            Notes about the new passage:

            Being curious how you guys see the map fit for some 1on1 play, thus waiting for more comments about map's size and scale, I've started to explore some ways of improvement, while leaving the scale-downsize as the final solution I try to avoid. Characteristic feature of the map is its center part which is... almost non-existent It makes the most basic traverse being a circle around the lower or the upper part of the map. While that solution easily rewards prediction, on the other side of a coin, it also "punishes" missed-prediction by extending time spent on engaging an opponent and making breaks between shootouts longer and less entertaining. It may lead to low scores on matches between players of defensive attitude - a side effect I would like to minimize.

            What I thought might help, was to introduce a new passage on the upper elevation to shorten the traverse around that part, giving a quicker possibility to spot an enemy. I had some space behind a wall in the middle part, so I decided to subtract a new route, which opened some navigation and firing options, and provided additional tracking/sniping spots. It also allows to skip the belt-area when there's no need to go there. So the idea was to minimize the impact of map size and layout by speeding up a bit the navigation and providing more possibilities for spotting, hearing and hitting an opponent.

            I hope it works as intended and will be grateful to know what you guys do think about this change.
            Last edited by insomnaut; 03-25-2015, 05:25 PM.
            @insomnaut aka charon / DM-Coma / ArmorWare

            Comment


              #7
              Quick fix!

              DM-Coma_A003-WindowsNoEditor.pak

              I've just realized navmesh somehow didn't make it to the previous map build and bots were just guarding their respawn area and not picking up any weapon :/
              It's fixed now.


              Originally posted by Seban View Post
              Needs better scaling IMO, coz I feel like a garden gnome in it :< However, wasn't bad in 4v4, but if the scaling was right, it would be more of a duel map or 2v2/3v3 max. Also I believe that it needs to be less super mario in the future and more like outpost 32 - futuristic, unreal, not counter-strike'ish :]
              More massive playtesting would prove the scale being fine or not, so I need to wait patiently while receiving opinions like yours. Thank for you voice.
              All that "super mario" is temporary, with more work it will look hopefully better and better.
              Last edited by insomnaut; 03-25-2015, 06:46 PM.
              @insomnaut aka charon / DM-Coma / ArmorWare

              Comment


                #8
                We had a go at this the other day playing FFA with a few people, some feedback from that session (I think this was the version previous to your latest update however, so keep that in mind):

                • Shield and vest placement doesn't feel terribly "iconic" and opposing enough
                  • Belt just kind of sits in a corner and IIRC vest is not terribly far away
                  • Might be nice to try carving out a bit more interesting locations out for these to make for more compelling fights over those items

                • The scale of the map felt a little off (on the large side)
                  • I.e. the shock area felt wider that it should seem to be
                  • Makes some parts of the map feel a bit slower than I think it was intended to be

                • There were comments on the map having too many dead ends
                  • I don't recall an example myself but maybe that was either perception and/or something you have changed since anyways

                • Even at this stage it would be nice to give some of the areas a more unique feel/identifier
                  • Not suggesting to throw a ton of detail around, just minor things here and there (indoor vs outdoor vs sky lights or otherwise identifying things that don't affect gameplay
                  • Or throwing around a few more varied materials


                Overall had a good time, nice job! Looking forward to seeing this evolve, keep it up!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thank you for your feedback. It will definitely keep me busy for a while, figuring out things and trying them
                  I'm very glad you had a time to take a look on my map, and even more glad this time was good


                  Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
                  We had a go at this the other day playing FFA with a few people, some feedback from that session (I think this was the version previous to your latest update however, so keep that in mind):
                  • Shield and vest placement doesn't feel terribly "iconic" and opposing enough
                    • Belt just kind of sits in a corner and IIRC vest is not terribly far away
                    • Might be nice to try carving out a bit more interesting locations out for these to make for more compelling fights over those items
                  I have to admit, I don't recall playing FFA myself at this before your post, so the very first thing I did after was to play some with bots to check and see it doesn't get completely ridiculous I've always seen it as a 1on1 map and always tested it as so, but some 2on2 and 4on4 shots have been fired too

                  I agree armor locations do not feel too iconic. Especially the belt's area may seem a bit trivial and unexpectful, as it basically lacks more significant marks of its actual importance. At this moment I do not see it a location anyone would say about "oh, the belt would fit in here just great", as one may more probably say about the vest's area. I guess, because of that, it might be quite possible in the middle of FFA to simply not realize the belt is even there. I will try to redesign surrounding area slightly or find/create a better place.

                  Both belt and vest aren't placed on any tricky spots and are totally easy to get, encouraging to take them aggresively in the middle of fight. The only risk to get them is basically the awareness of the other player in 1on1 play, and it is something I went for - to encourage stepping forward and taking the risk of direct fight, not the risk in name of doing something risky to get an armor. On the other hand, both areas are spaces limited to some significant degree, so I hope the risk factor, though minimized, is still there.

                  These two armors are not terribly far away, indeed, but it hadn't been an issue in 1on1 so far, from what I know. It was a concern at first, but I've left it for players to decide back then (UT99 days) and it didn't live up to what they had felt. There's that shortest route between vest and belt, leading through the central jumppad, which is quite fast and in new UT takes a few wall-dodges to quickly get from the one area to another. I should be able to slow it down a bit with a slight slope, will try. I used to think about it in similar way to belt-vest lower routes at Deck. It's quite close, but it's so risky, people tend to not over-use it. I will definitely keep an eye on the issue, but won't be able to gather more info until the map appears on hubs.

                  You may take a quick look on the armor placement on the top-down screenshot I made (ceilings have been taken away to get a better view):

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Coma_TopDown_Armors.png
Views:	1
Size:	642.4 KB
ID:	335521

                  I will prepare clearer layout-outlines soon.


                  Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
                  • The scale of the map felt a little off (on the large side)
                    • I.e. the shock area felt wider that it should seem to be
                    • Makes some parts of the map feel a bit slower than I think it was intended to be
                  I am extremely curious how the current version would be perceived on the scale. As you wrote, you might see the initial one, with material scaling messed up, what could cheat a bit on perception.
                  Shock was moved a little off deliberately to avoid getting too tight on the lowest floor in that area. Not sure if I should fix it anyhow, I didn't want it to be too close to the armor vest. Hopefully dynamics are quite decent in this area.

                  On those slower parts - there are some I'm not all that happy about - though some examples would make me more sure I've understood you correctly. The lower parts of the map are the ones lacking dynamics the most for me, like the flak-bio-pads path, the direct RL-flak passage or entire belt-shock route on the lowest level. There are more for sure. Thankfully the map takes huge benefit from new movement and combination of forward-dodge/wall-dodge makes traversing these parts much smoother.

                  Also, the belt-sniper route is quite a pace-stopper and flow-breaker. There's a slope/ramp on the right, which was meant to speed things up, though it needs some tweaking right now for sure.
                  Now there's also a new upper passage connecting the flak area and the minigun area, I introduced in an update. It allows to skip the belt-area when there's potentially no need to go there, so it makes the traverse around the upper elevations much quicker.


                  Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
                  • There were comments on the map having too many dead ends
                    • I don't recall an example myself but maybe that was either perception and/or something you have changed since anyways
                  This one is trully a kind of surprise to me. Dead ends may appear close to some lifts when they are up, but I'm not sure if that counts.


                  Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
                  • Even at this stage it would be nice to give some of the areas a more unique feel/identifier
                    • Not suggesting to throw a ton of detail around, just minor things here and there (indoor vs outdoor vs sky lights or otherwise identifying things that don't affect gameplay
                    • Or throwing around a few more varied materials
                  I will try to address this one ASAP, as it should help to learn the map a lot quicker, make players less confused and more focused on actual action.

                  I have some ideas to try out that emerged directly after your post. ATM they are definitely not the ones to turn the map on its head, though I hope they will turn out essential.
                  Thanks again, it's highly appreciated.

                  Cheers!
                  Last edited by insomnaut; 03-28-2015, 06:49 PM.
                  @insomnaut aka charon / DM-Coma / ArmorWare

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Charon85 View Post
                    You may take a quick look on the armor placement on the top-down screenshot I made (ceilings have been taken away to get a better view):

                    Looking at that top down view, I immediately thought why not just remove the new passage and swap mini with shield?

                    Mini is one of the weakest weapons in the game now, unlike in 99 when it was a goto weapon, especially on maps with plenty of midrange combat which this looks like it would have been. Put the shield in the riskier spot, the mini in the safer spot and remove the quick connection to the 100 armor.

                    I also think if you're going to put in a quick shortcut across the middle of a map (just about any map, not only your's) it should be on a lower level, not the highest. That way it's at least a little risky to use it, where if it's up top, about all it does is make control easier with no extra risk.
                    Last edited by MoxNix; 03-28-2015, 08:21 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hello folks!

                      DM-Coma_A003 is available to online play on ModHUB hubs thanks to raxxy!

                      I will appreciate if you check it out in 1on1 and tell what you think about a scale, flow, pace, the belt-vest distance, amount of health or whatever else draws your attention.
                      It hasn't been done with TDM or FFA in mind, but any thoughts on this are welcomed too.


                      I've started the shell from scratch as initial one was a simple conversion, so no update this time, but the next one will be massive. New BSP should give me a lot more freedom on making further changes. Layout will remain mostly the same, with some details changed and more identity given to areas.




                      Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
                      Looking at that top down view, I immediately thought why not just remove the new passage and swap mini with shield?
                      Some cool notes, MoxNix!

                      The new passage is not a part of an issue with belt/armor relative placement, as it is above the shortest/quickest route between the armors (the one with a jumppad on the left side of the pic below).



                      Mini placed instead of shieldbelt seems like a possibly great idea, but these two shouldn't be swapped as it may make things even worse with the armors issue, as the distance will become clearly too short. I have much work with new BSP, what gives me a lot of time to think If I end up with a new location for a shieldbelt, mini probably will take its place.


                      Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
                      I also think if you're going to put in a quick shortcut across the middle of a map (just about any map, not only your's) it should be on a lower level, not the highest. That way it's at least a little risky to use it, where if it's up top, about all it does is make control easier with no extra risk.
                      Yeah, I agree. It's exactly how it was initially on the map. Shortcut across the middle, in both directions (two hallways crossed), is on a lower level, just as a pic above shows. Just added the one above, not that risky, but I've felt like I need to add it to improve overall navigation and reduce the time needed to spot an opponent. It may not leave you defenseless on the lowest ground like the one below, but lots of attention should always be paid here.


                      Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
                      Mini is one of the weakest weapons in the game now, unlike in 99 when it was a goto weapon, especially on maps with plenty of midrange combat which this looks like it would have been.
                      It's about to change with the latest build Alt-fire projectiles are twice as fast now, hooray ;D


                      Originally posted by MoxNix View Post
                      Put the shield in the riskier spot, the mini in the safer spot and remove the quick connection to the 100 armor.
                      Currently having some serious headaches because of placement So far, it's been brought to my attention, that current belt location is risky in fact and it is potentially good place to break opponent's control in duel. Despite being somewhat open, it doesn't give too many options to grab the belt and leave the area (simply put, there are 3 exits: upper towards the shock rifle, lower to the flak and the one to the mini which is seemingly the safest one). Though, I need to wait and see what players will tell once they play the map on hubs. The more feedback, the better decisions.

                      Thank you MoxNix!
                      Last edited by insomnaut; 04-11-2015, 12:20 PM.
                      @insomnaut aka charon / DM-Coma / ArmorWare

                      Comment


                        #12
                        This map is now in rotation over at -=AW=- -==Community Map Test Server==- #1 so come check it out and let insomnaut know what you think!


                        ...gave it a quick play when testing out redirect and I do have to say the bots work this map very well! ... good job!
                        http://s5.postimg.org/edy9j9ykn/Laam...Forum_Sig1.jpg

                        http://aggressivewarriors.com -=- {AW}'s Community Map Test Server -=-
                        http://s5.postimg.org/qsk8gc8zn/Instagib.gif

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I had a little run around the map tonight on the server. It has a really nice layout

                          Originally posted by Laambo View Post
                          This map is now in rotation over at -=AW=- -==Community Map Test Server==- #1 so come check it out and let insomnaut know what you think!


                          ...gave it a quick play when testing out redirect and I do have to say the bots work this map very well! ... good job!
                          Win 10
                          iMac (27-inch, Late 2013)
                          3.5 GHz Intel Core i7
                          32 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
                          NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB

                          Maps:
                          DM-RadioActive (Work In progress) DM-Ethos (WIP) DM-QWERTY (WIP) DM-TwinFalls(WIP)
                          2k4 DM-MoonGames, DM-Abrenabba, DM-Aphelion, DM-Pyrimid-Of-Gold, DM-UPH-Hexed, Dm-Saint, DM-LethalAdixion, DM-C4-Ariza, Dm-C4-SleepyTomb,

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I won a game tonight on the map. So yes, I like it hehhee, It has a really nice game flow man! But maybe try adding some kind of land marks so we can remember better where placements are. Even some simple markings or something. I know we are all pretty much stuck for textures right now though.

                            All in all, it's a really great and fun map to play!
                            Win 10
                            iMac (27-inch, Late 2013)
                            3.5 GHz Intel Core i7
                            32 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
                            NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB

                            Maps:
                            DM-RadioActive (Work In progress) DM-Ethos (WIP) DM-QWERTY (WIP) DM-TwinFalls(WIP)
                            2k4 DM-MoonGames, DM-Abrenabba, DM-Aphelion, DM-Pyrimid-Of-Gold, DM-UPH-Hexed, Dm-Saint, DM-LethalAdixion, DM-C4-Ariza, Dm-C4-SleepyTomb,

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Siemasz Charon. Fajna mapa
                              Unofficial Enforcer Model
                              Redesigning Enforcer Firemodes

                              Comment

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