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    [PROTOTYPE] DM-Foundry

    So here's my latest map. I tried to see how big of a map I could make in a 7000 by 7000 by 7000 cube, and I think I've done fairly well. There is still more to be done with this map, but for now it's playable, so feel free to try it out and give feedback.
    My current goals are to open up the indoor area a fair bit more, to improve spawning, and to add more detail so that more of the space in some rooms is used. I also want to make trick jumps and the like easier and more useful in this map, as currently they are somewhat pointless for the most part (on this map).













    Here is the PAK file download: http://www.mediafire.com/download/n3...wsNoEditor.zip
    UPDATE 1:

    Completely Redid the interior area. Still a WIP in some areas, but it should play much better than before. Added a rim on the inner edge of the outside vat a bit above the height of the shield belt. Shuffled a lot of pickups around with the new layout. See the new pictures for an idea of how the map is layed out now.

    UPDATE 2:

    Added a new area for the Chestplate, much more interesting and contestable than the old area. A few minor changes in other places, improved the hallway to the bio-rifle (now leads to the Chestplate first), moved helmet to above the redeemer. Added animations around the map.

    UPDATE 3:

    exams are over, so the mapping can begin anew! Here's the latest iteration, worked on the upper area a bit more, though apparently the custom spline meshes don't like keeping their proper materials. Moved some stuff around, made things a bit prettier, added more to the upper area, and added a new jumppad in the lower area.

    UPDATE 4:

    Jump boot spawn has been moved to where the berserk used to be (behind the masher) and the berserk has been moved to where the Udamage was (in the last build). The Udamage has been removed. Mostly aesthetic changes this time around. Finalizing the BSP work of the map, before I begin considering meshing it up.

    UPDATE 5:

    Improved lighting and geometry a bit, as well as removing the actors that were causing massive lag in the map.

    UPDATE 6:

    Changed lighting a bit in an attempt to remove the lighting bleeding through the BSP. Not sure if it's turned out better, but we'll see. Also messed with the teleporter trying to fix it, but it seems to be unwilling to cooperate...
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Darksteel; 05-08-2015, 01:50 PM.
    My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

    #2
    Alright, I just played a couple rounds, with four bots on 3 difficulty, ~20 minutes per. Here's what I think.

    The map has a nice sense of scale to it, and I like the variety of long and close range combat options that are viable.

    That said, I think it's a mixed bag right now- a lot of the lower level areas are very very closed off, and many have only one entrance/exit aside from the one that the player enters from to begin with. The bio rifle room, helmet corridor, and the cauldron room next to the minigun stairs all feel very much like this. With so few options, combat is very restricted, and it makes attacking into a room very difficult, as a single player can hold both points very easily. Furthermore, if two players are fighting in a room, it is essentially impossible to flee because of the lack of exits, so the winning player can always cut off their escape route.

    The map also has some flow issues. I'm not sure whether it was a breadcrumbing issue or a layout issue, but I very rarely found myself going to the bio rifle room either as a way to make my way through the level nor to get the pickup in there. The bots also seem to avoid that area, and it feels very disconnected from the rest of the level to me.

    For the most part, I like your choices of which weapon goes where. It might be worth switching the shock and flak positions, however, or even putting the flak where the minigun is, the mini where the shock is, and the shock where the flak is.

    The room with the cauldron that connects to the shield belt is quite a bit of fun on the top, and I like that the retracted platform can be traversed with either two dodges or a wall dodge. The lower area, however, is suicide. It suffers again from having only one realistic escape route, so your opponent can just stand above the jump pad and rain death down on you. The elevator is too far away to make a realistic escape to, and much too closed off to survive any spam that hits the lift shaft- for that matter, all the lifts on the map suffer this issue.

    As far as aesthetics go, I know it's early in prototype, but the lifts and lava are both blindingly bright to look at, to the point it makes it hard to see and impairs gameplay. The lava is very attractive, however. The lava was also causing me absolutely massive lag when I fell into the pit; while the fact that I was dead made it less annoying than it might otherwise be, it brought my computer, which can run Outpost23 on max no problem to its knees to the point that it delayed my spawning by a few seconds every time I fell.

    I do quite like the shield belt area's risk/reward mechanic, reminiscent of Deck. It does feel disconnected from the rest of the map, though not in nearly as bad a way as the bio rile area does. I do find myself wishing that there were a way to fight in the belt area though- perhaps a narrow rim around the edges of the pit?

    The main area is also visually quite striking, and I think it's going to look fantastic when it's done. I look forward to seeing what you do with this map.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by aniviron View Post
      Alright, I just played a couple rounds, with four bots on 3 difficulty, ~20 minutes per. Here's what I think.

      The map has a nice sense of scale to it, and I like the variety of long and close range combat options that are viable.

      That said, I think it's a mixed bag right now- a lot of the lower level areas are very very closed off, and many have only one entrance/exit aside from the one that the player enters from to begin with. The bio rifle room, helmet corridor, and the cauldron room next to the minigun stairs all feel very much like this. With so few options, combat is very restricted, and it makes attacking into a room very difficult, as a single player can hold both points very easily. Furthermore, if two players are fighting in a room, it is essentially impossible to flee because of the lack of exits, so the winning player can always cut off their escape route.

      The map also has some flow issues. I'm not sure whether it was a breadcrumbing issue or a layout issue, but I very rarely found myself going to the bio rifle room either as a way to make my way through the level nor to get the pickup in there. The bots also seem to avoid that area, and it feels very disconnected from the rest of the level to me.

      For the most part, I like your choices of which weapon goes where. It might be worth switching the shock and flak positions, however, or even putting the flak where the minigun is, the mini where the shock is, and the shock where the flak is.

      The room with the cauldron that connects to the shield belt is quite a bit of fun on the top, and I like that the retracted platform can be traversed with either two dodges or a wall dodge. The lower area, however, is suicide. It suffers again from having only one realistic escape route, so your opponent can just stand above the jump pad and rain death down on you. The elevator is too far away to make a realistic escape to, and much too closed off to survive any spam that hits the lift shaft- for that matter, all the lifts on the map suffer this issue.

      As far as aesthetics go, I know it's early in prototype, but the lifts and lava are both blindingly bright to look at, to the point it makes it hard to see and impairs gameplay. The lava is very attractive, however. The lava was also causing me absolutely massive lag when I fell into the pit; while the fact that I was dead made it less annoying than it might otherwise be, it brought my computer, which can run Outpost23 on max no problem to its knees to the point that it delayed my spawning by a few seconds every time I fell.

      I do quite like the shield belt area's risk/reward mechanic, reminiscent of Deck. It does feel disconnected from the rest of the map, though not in nearly as bad a way as the bio rile area does. I do find myself wishing that there were a way to fight in the belt area though- perhaps a narrow rim around the edges of the pit?

      The main area is also visually quite striking, and I think it's going to look fantastic when it's done. I look forward to seeing what you do with this map.
      Yeah, I agree with your statements of map flow. Once exams are over, I intend to take a look at the indoor area and make most of it a bit more open/easier to navigate. I will either completely redo the interior areas, or merge them into a few much larger and more open rooms with more room for trick jumps and such. I like your idea of a rim around the edge of the pit, I'll probably do that a bit higher up than the shield belt, allowing players to jump down without taking fall damage. As far as the blinding light of the lava pit, I'll see what I can do, it's normal to that material, so I'm not quite sure how I'll reduce it, maybe with a post-process volume or something. As for the lag when falling into the pit, I'm not quite sure what's causing that, as I'm not experiencing that when I play. Could it be due to custom content? I have a custom damage time for the lava...
      My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

      Comment


        #4
        Don't worry too much about the lava for now, I am guessing the brightness issue will be sorted out once you give the level a lighting and material pass. Same with the death lag, I just wanted you to be aware of it. I think the indoor areas need a lot more attention for the moment.

        Oh, and I'd been meaning to ask- is it intentional that the "bridge" out to the shield belt doesn't damage players? It felt weird that I could walk right down the middle of the lava channel.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by aniviron View Post
          Don't worry too much about the lava for now, I am guessing the brightness issue will be sorted out once you give the level a lighting and material pass. Same with the death lag, I just wanted you to be aware of it. I think the indoor areas need a lot more attention for the moment.

          Oh, and I'd been meaning to ask- is it intentional that the "bridge" out to the shield belt doesn't damage players? It felt weird that I could walk right down the middle of the lava channel.
          I'm not too sure how I wanted to deal with it. Currently it doesn't damage players, but I may still change that. Albeit it would either end up being a mechanic where lava flows along the channels every once in a while, dealing a large portion of damage to those standing there, and then goes away, or it would be a semi-recurring theme across the map, with similar channels of lava dealing small bits of damage over time when standing on them. Not quite sure yet which one I'll do, though I kinda like the first idea. We'll see how it turns out when exams are done.
          My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

          Comment


            #6
            New Update, Updated OP with update notes, new pictures, and a new PAK file. Probably no more updates until at least Wednesday. Enjoy!
            My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

            Comment


              #7
              New Update, check OP for build notes, pictures and PAK file updated.
              My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

              Comment


                #8
                I'll give you more detailed notes when I get a chance to really test this new build out, but I can already say I like it a lot more. I do miss the sniper area above the cauldron though.

                Comment


                  #9
                  This version is much better than the last- almost every change is positive, I think.

                  The only thing I miss from the old version is the sniper area. The cauldron full of slag coming through is pretty cool, but I did really like being able to drop down on players in the pit area. Maybe just duplicate the brush that opens that area for the cauldron on the left and right and then connect those to where the redeemer is now, so players can still access that area?

                  On that note, while I do love the redeemer, it feels like it might be a bit overkill. It's a fairly small map, and the shield belt and berserk are both within a few seconds of it. A second sniper or another weapon plus a thigh pad pickup might work better.

                  I'd really like to see a second jump pad in the bottom of the berserk room, mirrored from the other one in there. Right now that corner of the room gets almost no traffic- you can walldodge above it to ignore it altogether, there are no escape routes from that corner, and no pickups. Given how dangerous that area is, it feels like it should have either an escape route or a powerup.

                  I like that you can grab the jump boots, get over to the belt, and then jump out. That feels very natural, and it's a great addition. I'd like to see a cutout to make the ceiling just a little higher above the U-shaped ledge that leads from the boots to the belt, I kept hitting my head and falling into the lava on a jump that feels like I should be able to make it, and then I would have used all three jumps to make a quick nab and getaway for the belt.

                  I'm also not sure if you want to make the ledge juuust a little closer to the belt or not. As is, you can almost grab the belt and then hammer jump onto the ledge, but you can't quite make it.

                  The crusher in front of the berserk doesn't kill me in one hit. I'm not sure if it's supposed to, but it doesn't.

                  The jump pad in the lower level of the berserk room makes my weapons glow like a thousand suns when I stand next to it and look at it. No idea why.

                  Right now if you elevator jump in the berserk room, you can land on the pillars by the crusher, dodge onto the crusher, and get out. It's a really neat route with some risk to it, but right now the tolerances on it are really tight, I'd like to see it opened up a little bit to make it more of an intentional path.

                  The room with the flak and the red corridor above it that leads to the sniper both feel sort of weird and closed off compared to how well the rest of the map flows now. Not sure what I'd do about it if I were you, and I don't think it's awful by any means, but it doesn't feel as fluid as the rest of the map.

                  The bots are VERY prone to suicide in the lava on this map, especially down by the lava in the berserk room. At the end of one of the matches, the four bots and I had 57 combined frags and 135 combined deaths. They also seem to have a hard time getting out of that bottom area, and it's not uncommon to see all of them in that room just slugging it out in the pit for the whole match. At the end of one of the matches, the four bots and I had 57 combined frags and 135 combined deaths.

                  The jump pad that leads to the redeemer sometimes just sends you flying facefirst into one of the incoming cauldrons

                  Overall, I'd say this beta is a huge improvement, the map is really shaping up.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                    This version is much better than the last- almost every change is positive, I think.

                    The only thing I miss from the old version is the sniper area. The cauldron full of slag coming through is pretty cool, but I did really like being able to drop down on players in the pit area. Maybe just duplicate the brush that opens that area for the cauldron on the left and right and then connect those to where the redeemer is now, so players can still access that area?

                    On that note, while I do love the redeemer, it feels like it might be a bit overkill. It's a fairly small map, and the shield belt and berserk are both within a few seconds of it. A second sniper or another weapon plus a thigh pad pickup might work better.

                    I could open the door on the side that opens out to the main cauldron, and then put the sniper spawn up there instead of the redeemer. I could then put the helmet spawn down where the sniper is now. I agree that the redeemer is a bit unnecessary.


                    Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                    I'd really like to see a second jump pad in the bottom of the berserk room, mirrored from the other one in there. Right now that corner of the room gets almost no traffic- you can walldodge above it to ignore it altogether, there are no escape routes from that corner, and no pickups. Given how dangerous that area is, it feels like it should have either an escape route or a powerup.
                    Already Planned. Have had some complaints from some of the people I was playtesting with that there are very few ways to escape from someone with the berserk if you happen to be on that side of the room.


                    Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                    I like that you can grab the jump boots, get over to the belt, and then jump out. That feels very natural, and it's a great addition. I'd like to see a cutout to make the ceiling just a little higher above the U-shaped ledge that leads from the boots to the belt, I kept hitting my head and falling into the lava on a jump that feels like I should be able to make it, and then I would have used all three jumps to make a quick nab and getaway for the belt.

                    I'm also not sure if you want to make the ledge juuust a little closer to the belt or not. As is, you can almost grab the belt and then hammer jump onto the ledge, but you can't quite make it.
                    Good suggestions! I'll add 'em to the to-do list.

                    Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                    The crusher in front of the berserk doesn't kill me in one hit. I'm not sure if it's supposed to, but it doesn't.

                    The jump pad in the lower level of the berserk room makes my weapons glow like a thousand suns when I stand next to it and look at it. No idea why.
                    Crusher should do like 1000 damage on hit, not sure why it isn't killing you... I know the area of effect is a bit off, but if you're right under, it should kill you.

                    As for that weird lighting bug, I'm aware of it, not sure why it's doing that either though...
                    Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                    Right now if you elevator jump in the berserk room, you can land on the pillars by the crusher, dodge onto the crusher, and get out. It's a really neat route with some risk to it, but right now the tolerances on it are really tight, I'd like to see it opened up a little bit to make it more of an intentional path.
                    That's interesting, I've never used that path that I know of. I'll have to take a look when I get the chance.

                    Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                    The room with the flak and the red corridor above it that leads to the sniper both feel sort of weird and closed off compared to how well the rest of the map flows now. Not sure what I'd do about it if I were you, and I don't think it's awful by any means, but it doesn't feel as fluid as the rest of the map.
                    Interesting. I'll take a look at it. I could do something similar to the chest-plate room.

                    Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                    The jump pad that leads to the redeemer sometimes just sends you flying facefirst into one of the incoming cauldrons
                    This is fairly intentional, though I may need to make it more obvious to those in the lower area that a cauldron is coming through.

                    Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                    The bots are VERY prone to suicide in the lava on this map, especially down by the lava in the berserk room. At the end of one of the matches, the four bots and I had 57 combined frags and 135 combined deaths. They also seem to have a hard time getting out of that bottom area, and it's not uncommon to see all of them in that room just slugging it out in the pit for the whole match. At the end of one of the matches, the four bots and I had 57 combined frags and 135 combined deaths.
                    Bots will be bots. But still, i haven't noticed too much of that when I've been playing. Perhaps some of the odd behaviours will solve themselves when I implement some of the other map changes you've suggested.

                    Thanks for the great feedback!
                    My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

                    Comment


                      #11
                      New Update, new photos and pak in OP, alongside patchnotes.
                      My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Darksteel View Post
                        New Update, new photos and pak in OP, alongside patchnotes.
                        You really should be using "version" numbers (-V1, -V2, etc.) with the map name at these early stages as its fine to replace or overwrite you client copy and everything works just fine with that but once these hit a server and your map changes but not the name your headed for trouble with .... well, like the good old days of "file mismatches"!


                        I've just had to pull DM-Containers from the test server as he did the same thing!
                        http://s5.postimg.org/edy9j9ykn/Laam...Forum_Sig1.jpg

                        http://aggressivewarriors.com -=- {AW}'s Community Map Test Server -=-
                        http://s5.postimg.org/qsk8gc8zn/Instagib.gif

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Fair enough. Not used to having my maps continuously running I guess. Will try to keep that in mind for future versions!
                          My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Very clever on making the pressed steel effect It's a great touch!

                            I like the map, but I feel it needs a lot more lighting. try adding a skylight actor for now, just to light up the whole map until the finished lighting gets done. Maybe add a slight Red or Orange colour to the actor as well for that hot effect.

                            I think that the lava (molten metal) needs to have pain volumes added to them, it will make it feel more realistic.

                            I will jump back on the server and give it a blast once I get a day off work.

                            Keep up the good work!
                            Last edited by effects69; 04-30-2015, 02:06 AM.
                            Win 10
                            iMac (27-inch, Late 2013)
                            3.5 GHz Intel Core i7
                            32 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
                            NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB

                            Maps:
                            DM-RadioActive (Work In progress) DM-Ethos (WIP) DM-QWERTY (WIP) DM-TwinFalls(WIP)
                            2k4 DM-MoonGames, DM-Abrenabba, DM-Aphelion, DM-Pyrimid-Of-Gold, DM-UPH-Hexed, Dm-Saint, DM-LethalAdixion, DM-C4-Ariza, Dm-C4-SleepyTomb,

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Most of the molten metal should have a pain volume. The only ones that don't are the ones in the channel around the shield belt. I'm not sure I want there to be a pain volume there...
                              My maps: DM-Incomplete | DM-Archives | DM-Foundry | DM-Sewage

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