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    [PROTOTYPE] CTF-Defiance

    CTF-DEFIANCE08

    10th June DOWNLOAD PAK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3rnm6nwgnw...ditor.pak?dl=0

    Instructions: Put pak in Documents/UnrealTournament/Saved/Paks/MyContent

    Screenshots:











    Changes for Defiance08:
    • Taken on feedback from the devs on UT4 Stream.
    • Removed underground routes.
    • Opened up bridge area of spaceship as much as possible so falling down is less annoying.
    • Swapped out belt with bezerk, moved belt to lower cargo entrance.
    • Moved ship to be slightly more central, and pushed it back from the land.
    • Ship has new boarding platform for flagrunners and boarding via jump pads is a longer jump.
    • Church has been rotated and gives access to new back route into castle.
    • Volcano is larger and doesn't seem climbable now.
    • Nali village layout adjustments.
    • Added rippers.
    • Added blocking volumes in ship crew rooms.
    • Added teleporter exit from ship.


    Outdated:

    Changes for Defiance07:
    • Completely new castle base, with much more gameplay and defensible walls.
    • New, smaller symmetrical midground with asymmetrical features. Castle has a church, spaceship hovers over a Nali Village.
    • Volcano is symmetrical, with all routes converging into it. Lowered top wall slide route, so all the action is closer together in the Volcano.
    • New underground tunnel route with multiple exits near both bases.
    • Fewer enterable buildings. Two small Nali houses enterable on village side, and one is a ramp to the tunnels. Church enterable and provides paths to underground and high routes.
    • Removed smaller fighter.



    Changes for Defiance06:

    Smaller update, building on recent feedback from you guys. Changes include:
    • Scaled down volcano height, top path not as steep, and is now accessible without jump-boots from ship side.
    • Volcano lower route for flag carriers is longer, but with some health. A new shortcut mid level path through the volcano is available for translocating players.
    • Lava pool and lower chamber size increased. Lava more forgiving.
    • Fixed chainsaws bug getting stuck by the cannons.
    • Swapped belt and chest armour in the ship, wanted to keep shields for now as windows feel too claustrophobic. Belt is now in a risky location where you could be shot into the abyss.
    • Lifted up some trees.
    • Can no longer drop down onto ship flag.
    • Added some Nav link proxys to improve bots navigation.


    Original post and description:

    Inspired by Sid's challenge on the stream to make an asymmetrical CTF map - after two weeks of work this is the result - CTF-Defiance! Making 2 bases really is twice the work Hopefully worth it though.

    I wanted to make an asymmetrical map which wasn't totally one sided where it was "now its your turn to win" - I appreciate those maps as I love attack/defence assault style level, but I wanted both teams to have a fightning chance at claiming victory whichever half they play in. So while the bases are radically different and there are some lopsided powerups, there should be a balance there.

    The ship team will find themselves armed with high tech shock rifles and link guns, while the castle team have easy access to lower tech stinger miniguns and flak cannons. (as well as other weapons both teams share)

    The story goes: This map is a reenactment of when a skaarj (or insert race here) ship finds itself stricken and in need of power. Scans of a nearby floating Nali fort showed signs of the kind of artifact that can re-power the ships engines, made of the same element which keeps the Nali's floating islands in the sky. Armed with superior technology, the skaarj crew ready themselves for an easy takeover, moving to claim the artifact and kill any life forms in the fort. What they didn't bargain on was the Nali's iron willed defiance as they put up a fight.
    Last edited by TotesAmaze; 12-24-2015, 12:26 PM.
    UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
    Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

    #2
    Hells yes, awesome!

    Looking forward to giving this a go soon

    Comment


      #3
      Spaceships and castles... I'm not a CTF player but something tells me this is going to be a great map. Looking good so far!

      Comment


        #4
        Looks great - nice to see another asymmetrical map with a bit of an Assault vibe I like the visuals too; lots of distinct areas and enough detail to help keep you oriented.

        I only had a quick play on it so no in-depth feedback, but here are some first impressions:

        - A couple of the jump pads look like they could use some polish. The one in the ship leading up to the shield belt failed to get me to my destination about 50% of the time (tweaking the "restricted jump time" property might help, as well as more space), and the one one the side of the ship that launches you toward the center of the map always caused fall damage. Not sure if that's intended as a trade-off for the amount of ground you cover, but I think as a rule players should be able to trust that jump pads will get them somewhere without hurting them.
        - It felt a little too easy to fall off the map in some places. Maybe the gaps between the floating islands could be a bit more forgiving, or the landmass beneath the ship could be bigger?
        - I'd have to play more to give more specific feedback, but overall it felt pretty cramped to me in the bases, with a little bit too much complexity in the layout relative to the size of the map. You might be able to improve both those issues by just simplifying a few areas and creating a bit more space to dodge around and make use of the Translocator, or it might be better to just see where you can increase the overall scale of things so there's just a bit more room to breathe in a fight.
        Last edited by EpicTomB; 04-10-2015, 10:31 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          omg that look great
          great lea out will test map right away

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
            Hells yes, awesome!

            Looking forward to giving this a go soon
            Sweet! Look forward to your feedback. Bear in mind what I say below too.

            Originally posted by [Epic]Thomas Browett View Post
            Looks great - nice to see another asymmetrical map with a bit of an Assault vibe I like the visuals too; lots of distinct areas and enough detail to help keep you oriented.

            I only had a quick play on it so no in-depth feedback, but here are some first impressions:
            Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated and really helps inform my thoughts on how to improve the map.

            Originally posted by [Epic]Thomas Browett View Post
            - A couple of the jump pads look like they could use some polish. The one in the ship leading up to the shield belt failed to get me to my destination about 50% of the time (tweaking the "restricted jump time" property might help, as well as more space), and the one one the side of the ship that launches you toward the center of the map always caused fall damage. Not sure if that's intended as a trade-off for the amount of ground you cover, but I think as a rule players should be able to trust that jump pads will get them somewhere without hurting them.
            Yes, the bridge was the last thing rebuilt before packaging, and the connection to the ship slightly rushed as wanted to get map on forums for feedback before I went away this weekend. I'll try allowing more space there, wanted a lift but it clipped through the cargo bay entrance! I couldn't get the other jump-pad to not give fall damage, but it isn't ideal as you say. The mid ground is quite temporary, just put in to get the map playable so I can think about the gameplay and I already have plans to change it based on your comments about space. One thing I wanted was to keep the mid-ground open (apart from a LOS blocker between bases) and easy to understand as the bases are more complex and unique. If perhaps the midground was a longer hill with cover going up to the fort, I might be able to avoid fall damage that way and make balance the jump pad route as a fast but very exposed option.

            Originally posted by [Epic]Thomas Browett View Post
            - It felt a little too easy to fall off the map in some places. Maybe the gaps between the floating islands could be a bit more forgiving, or the landmass beneath the ship could be bigger?
            One thing I'm very wary of is over-scaling the map, and I thought having a whole large island under the ship was too much space. However its too difficult to worry about not falling off the floating islands and dodging incoming fire from defenders on the spaceship, in what is a very open area. So that needs to change!

            Originally posted by [Epic]Thomas Browett View Post
            - I'd have to play more to give more specific feedback, but overall it felt pretty cramped to me in the bases, with a little bit too much complexity in the layout relative to the size of the map. You might be able to improve both those issues by just simplifying a few areas and creating a bit more space to dodge around and make use of the Translocator, or it might be better to just see where you can increase the overall scale of things so there's just a bit more room to breathe in a fight.
            Thanks, a bit more specific feedback would be really helpful here. When you say too much complexity relative to the size of the map, do you mean some more space in the bases or between them? I'm thinking more space between the bases and under the ship might be good, and would probably alleviate your feelings of not enough room to fight, especially with a reworked and larger midground with less edges into the abyss. I'm pretty happy with the scaling in the bases. As for simplifying areas could you please elaborate on that?

            One thing with the ship, I could open up some of the windows or make more ways of getting ontop of the ship to better allow fighting there.

            Thanks for all the comments.
            UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
            Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
            "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

            Comment


              #7
              Its great to see all these asymmetrical maps being made. It would be nice if people were playing CTF, so we could test and balance them out. I made a short video with some suggestions and comments about the map. Most of it pertains to how I think the jump boots break the map. Best of luck with the map.

              YouTube Channel

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Kronos[X] View Post
                Its great to see all these asymmetrical maps being made. It would be nice if people were playing CTF, so we could test and balance them out. I made a short video with some suggestions and comments about the map. Most of it pertains to how I think the jump boots break the map. Best of luck with the map.

                Wow, thanks for the video Kronos[X]!

                Looks like the jump boots really do break the map...I suspected they would cause problems but always enjoy having them in there as they're so much fun. I considered just having 1 pair where the invisibility is, but with the current mid-ground it would still be a bit broken. I think I also felt the need for them as there's alot of gaps you can fall down, but I'm now going to really pay attention to the space between the bases and how the gameplay flows+flagcarrier routes. So really this release was to get the map out there and get feedback, which has been really helpful so far, and what I'm going to start working on today is coming up with a new mid-ground which really works with the bases and hopefully eliminates the issues you guys have been bringing up.

                I agree the bridge needs windows to make the shield-belt harder to snatch and more of a commitment going into a small space you could get trapped in, like the UDamage waterfall in Outside.

                Appreciate the video and thanks for the comments, as you say it is twice the work and my main concentration was on the bases, so any gameplay feedback there too (and stuff such as routes in and out of the base etc) would be helpful. I'll get sketching up some mid-ground ideas and experiment with spacing the bases out a bit more.
                UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
                Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
                "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

                Comment


                  #9
                  The jump boots really break the map for sure.

                  You can cap a flag in in like 5 secs? lol

                  This is really something I dislike with UT4, that often the CTF maps are so small you can cross the map in such a short time it barely needs any mid-fighting while doing flagruns. For me this kills the CTF majorly. CTF-Dam also got ruined with the smaller version, size/gameplay wise it worked a lot better before. Suitable flag-run time (assuming you run fairly straight without encountering an enemy) is about 20-35 secs IMO.
                  Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 04-13-2015, 06:15 AM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Done a quick sketch of an idea I think might work better:



                    Thoughts?

                    I'll start working on pushing the bases apart today and begin roughly blocking out the new midground space.
                    UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
                    Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
                    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think it looks very interesting with the different sections. The Volcano could have some interesting lava cave in the middle with a lavapit, maybe some rocks to jump over at the lowest section (maybe just bridge at top path with a plausible trap for it, unsure about the middle) which makes it particularly risky or fun chasing with shock rifle.

                      I'm totally for this approach personally. The previous just had a small mountain in the middle which made the mid-part feel a bit cheap from a gameplay point of view but this mountainpath with 3 routes and an open village section should make it a lot more interesting IMO.

                      BTW, I'm starting to think, is maybe the boots overpowered in this installment with the current height/distance it's configured at? Especially for CTF I'm thinking so.
                      Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 04-13-2015, 05:55 AM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
                        I think it looks very interesting with the different sections. The Volcano could have some interesting lava cave in the middle with a lavapit, maybe some rocks to jump over at the lowest section (maybe just bridge at top path with a plausible trap for it, unsure about the middle) which makes it particularly risky or fun chasing with shock rifle.

                        I'm totally for this approach personally. The previous just had a small mountain in the middle which made the mid-part feel a bit cheap from a gameplay point of view but this mountainpath with 3 routes and an open village section should make it a lot more interesting IMO.

                        BTW, I'm starting to think, is maybe the boots overpowered in this installment with the current height/distance it's configured at? Especially for CTF I'm thinking so.
                        Cool, I think it could work too - I've pushed the flags apart from 15000 to 27500 UU's, I think thats going to make for a pretty large map and I'd be hesitant to push it any further for now. If I have trouble fitting a whole volcano in, I'm thinking having part of the side facing the ship having fallen away would be cool, with a lavafall pouring out the shattered side of the volcano. Perhaps the ship knocked into it. I like your suggestions for the volcano paths, and I'll see if i can perhaps get a semicircular wallslide in as a way round the mouth of the volcano chamber on one of the routes.

                        A new, giant asymmetrical midground too - not giving myself much work then!
                        Last edited by TotesAmaze; 04-13-2015, 08:33 AM.
                        UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
                        Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
                        "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Some very good points made so far. Your extended midfield sketch looks great, some good ideas in there and the ratio of bases to midfield looks nice as well. Looking forward to it

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
                            Some very good points made so far. Your extended midfield sketch looks great, some good ideas in there and the ratio of bases to midfield looks nice as well. Looking forward to it
                            Thanks Sid. After more fighting with the editor, I have an update:

                            CTF-DEFIANCE 05(skipped afew versions, don't ask )

                            18TH APRIL DOWNLOAD PAK:
                            https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9fjf4xci6...ditor.pak?dl=0

                            NEW SCREENSHOTS:


                            New Midground view 1. Village provides cover like in my concept sketch, open fields for fighting over the rocket launcher. Red have quite an advantage on this side so powerups and weapon placement has been tweaked some more. The path closest to the camera is longest and sneakiest, with good amount of powerups and lots of cover, with an open stretch towards the ship. The mid path is medium length with decent cover but some open stretches, easy to get in and out of the ship. High path is very fast, but exposed and dangerous, plus you need jump boots (only 1 pair now)


                            New Midground view 2. The church has a new secret weapon. Not religion, nuclear missiles!


                            Spaceship behind volcano, multiple entrances from volcano.


                            Inside volcano - Udamage over lava, easily accessible to ship side.


                            Top path at peak of volcano cone. A risky but rewarding wall slide for flag carriers.

                            Again, bots are... yes. Feedback was REALLY helpful last time so keep it up - but i'm much happier with the midground now. Excuse volcanoes ugliness, difficult to make with BSP, and will eventually be a sculpted mesh.

                            Enjoy!
                            UT4: CTF-Defiance, CTF-Melt.
                            Epic - This video made me smile: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6418948/
                            "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Cool! Will give it a test but looks great from pics. I do think the volcano part could be made more interesting like opening up the lava floor more so that lava part is sliiightly bigger.

                              Also I'd suggest to add some further tunnels at that volcano cave starting at the higher level of the tunnel that goes from the exterior and the new tunnel would go a bit downwards curved and ends up at the middle open room somewhere in between the ground level and the higher level with small cliff with a powerup like jump boots or armor or whatever which is a highly risky spot from where you could take your chances to proceed going up the tunnel back to the high level or jump down and risk landing right in the lava. The idea with the tunnel is to give more options to the flagrunner as well as make it possible for the "chasers" to bypass the flagrunner by taking another route and wait at the exterior to enhance gameplay so it's not strictly "follow flag runner through the same narrow tunnel only"-kind of gameplay.
                              Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 04-18-2015, 09:17 AM.

                              Comment

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