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    CTF-Buried

    I've got a new map here for you to test, That Which Lies Buried, or CTF-Buried. It's a relatively small (4v4 recommended) symmetrical CTF map where the flag is easy to grab and hard to get away with. I decided that I wasn't going to bother posting this one early, and went straight to beta, with just myself for alpha testing, which means this one is already meshed and most of the way complete- there are definitely rough edges still, but the bulk of the work is now done.

    The map is set in a humid, rusty excavation deep underground where the staff have vanished, with no clues to what happened except for the blood-coated walls. Now there's a tournament arena here to make sure that the viscera never completely dry off.

    For this map, I wanted to challenge myself in a few ways, and I think it turned out well. The whole thing was made in seven days from block out to release, and although now I can see I was a little optimistic in thinking I could complete the entire thing in one week's worth of work, I think I came close enough to be happy with it. I also wanted to see how well a map built entirely with a mesh process would turn out, and as such, there are only ~10 brushes in the whole level, and I made the shell with meshes to start with to help me iterate rapidly. Finally, I wanted to see how flexible the Outpost assets were, so I went for a very different theme while using the same meshes and just a few tweaks to the materials.

    Here's the download: https://ut.rushbase.net/cymek/CTF-Bu...wsNoEditor.pak

    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    Everything is more or less set for the layout, so I'm not looking to make huge sweeping changes to the overall structure of the level at this point. I would however welcome any and all feedback anyone is willing to give, and would especially like to hear people's thoughts on: weapon and pickup balance, framerate, map visibility, and collision issues. I know there are still a number of issues at this point, but I think I've tackled most of the show-stopping bugs and problems, but I am sure there are some I've missed. I'd love to hear what you guys think!

    10/25 update: Be aware that since the first beta of the map I've been working mostly on the red base, only migrating changes to the blue base that affect gameplay. I'm going to copy over all the work on the visuals later, once the map is ready to be final.


    Info for server admins:

    The map file path is /Game/RestrictedAssets/Maps/WIP/CTF-Buried_b1_u5.umap , the filename is CTF-Buried_b1_u5-WindowsNoEditor.pak , and the MD5 is 4E2BD0DD65CD7C6E99382F7949CC24DA . The map is hosted at Rushbase for redirection here: ut.rushbase.net/cymek/CTF-Buried_b1_u5-WindowsNoEditor.pak
    Attached Files
    Last edited by aniviron; 11-03-2015, 05:18 AM.

    #2
    Nice, textures too, that's a rarity here. I'll give this a shot, thanks for sharing.

    Comment


      #3
      WOW! Doom 3 style, but pls make it lighter or more clean looking for UT4 its too dark.

      Comment


        #4
        I think you have something very nice here that had a lot of potential :-)
        Here is my bit of feedback from running around it alone:
        - I think as e1vp mentioned, the lighting needs probably the most work. I get the vibe you're going for and I think you've done a very fine job with the materials, but I would suggest spending some time working on lighting. Right now, I think that is what is letting the whole thing down.
        - You have some collision issues in several areas. For example - the rocks from shock to mini in the flag rooms, several of the ledges that have to be jumped on.
        - I think the gameplay could probably be improved if some of the areas are focused some more. One suggestion is to remove the damage from the swimmable water (this is always not a good idea anyways, I've found, since you can never tell when water should/shouldn't do damage) and make it so the water funnels to a general area in the mid. If you do this, it could mean some significant work since you've already done a lot of mesh work, so totally your call.
        - I think with the current size of the map, it could be a little frantic but I can't judge that since I was running around offline.
        Well, cheers man. Keep it up.
        MyArtstation
        @jayoplus

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jayoplus View Post
          I think you have something very nice here that had a lot of potential :-)
          Here is my bit of feedback from running around it alone:
          - I think as e1vp mentioned, the lighting needs probably the most work. I get the vibe you're going for and I think you've done a very fine job with the materials, but I would suggest spending some time working on lighting. Right now, I think that is what is letting the whole thing down.
          - You have some collision issues in several areas. For example - the rocks from shock to mini in the flag rooms, several of the ledges that have to be jumped on.
          - I think the gameplay could probably be improved if some of the areas are focused some more. One suggestion is to remove the damage from the swimmable water (this is always not a good idea anyways, I've found, since you can never tell when water should/shouldn't do damage) and make it so the water funnels to a general area in the mid. If you do this, it could mean some significant work since you've already done a lot of mesh work, so totally your call.
          - I think with the current size of the map, it could be a little frantic but I can't judge that since I was running around offline.
          Well, cheers man. Keep it up.
          Thanks for the feedback! This is just what I wanted to hear. :]

          I agree that the lighting needs work. I was hoping to spend the last day doing a lighting pass, most of what I have is sort of 'concepted' right now, so it looks moody but doesn't do a great job lighting the place up. Not really happy with the fog either.

          I'll admit collision is a pretty big issue too, and that one's going to take a fair amount of time to sort out. I will absolutely be doing another pass on it in the next update- every time I play, I find more spots. If you find any other specific places that are bad, let me know, and I'll add them to the list. :]

          The water is supposed to be acidic and have a greenish tint, but the lighting lets it down a fair amount right now. Hopefully that becomes more readable after a lighting pass. I think I miiiiight be able to open up a water route, but I will have to think about how to best do it. It is a good idea though.

          The map is definitely frantic, even with just eight players. I have to admit that I have a preference for this sort of gameplay though- my favourite CTF map of all time is probably CTF-Concentrate, the original CBP version, not the expanded BP one. :P I also figured that the way the servers are set up and the relatively small UT community right now might welcome a CTF map designed for smaller games.

          Thanks again for the feedback! I really appreciate it, it's so hard to make good changes without hearing other people's opinions.

          Comment


            #6
            I missed this one. I'll take a look at it tomorrow and let you know what I think. Just curious, what is your objective here? Competitive 5v5 CTF or something else?

            Edit: I see it's described as a 4v4 CTF map, which is kind of a shame. (very few people play 4v4, in fact, I've never heard of it. 3v3 was played around with, but never very popular.). Might want to just call it a 3v3 map if you don't intend it to be 5v5, seeing as how 4v4 doesn't really have any history at all.
            Last edited by cafe; 07-23-2015, 04:03 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Nice work. Visually, very much like the tone and atmosphere here. The last shot is my favorite. There's an opportunity there to introduce some wet decals on the floors and pipes, etc. Nice work with doing a dark level that doesn't feel too dark.

              Rick Kohler

              rick.kohler@epicgames.com

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by cafe View Post
                I missed this one. I'll take a look at it tomorrow and let you know what I think. Just curious, what is your objective here? Competitive 5v5 CTF or something else?

                Edit: I see it's described as a 4v4 CTF map, which is kind of a shame. (very few people play 4v4, in fact, I've never heard of it. 3v3 was played around with, but never very popular.). Might want to just call it a 3v3 map if you don't intend it to be 5v5, seeing as how 4v4 doesn't really have any history at all.
                I have to admit, I didn't really build with competitive CTF in mind- the lighting should give that away. I've played competitive AS and BR and instagib, but although I have played a lot of CTF it has always been just for fun. The map is probably a bit small for 5v5, but I'd be interested to hear what you think- it feels really chaotic at 5v5 to me, and feels just about right at 3v3 but I know casually very few people play at that size. Regardless, I'd love to hear what you think in regards to gameplay and if it is at all salvageable for comp play; while it's not my main goal, if you think it has a chance for being in rotation in comp now and then, I could make changes. Even if it won't work for comp, I think you have a pretty good handle on what makes a CTF map fun, and the level would benefit from your feedback either way.

                Thanks for the comments, Rick. I like the idea of wet decals, I'll have to do that!

                Comment


                  #9
                  3v3 CTF actually used to be somewhat common, although was never as popular as 5v5. One thing that 3v3 always lacked was a good selection of maps, so it's not a completely useless thing to actually DESIGN a map for 3v3. The lighting isn't necessarily a problem, although I haven't played it enough to say anything definitive about how it might impact game play. My experience with it so far was that it felt squished a bit, and that the vertical scaling feels off. I will get more specific notes for you about that. Let me mess around in it a bit more.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If you want to make a 3v3 map, try remaking Iron. It would also be good to work out any CTF kinks that can happen when flags are right near each other.
                    "Yeah. _Lynx can fire the lightning gun, have the lightning bolt turn a 90 degree corner, stop and ask the closest teammate for directions, confuse the directions and get lost, realize it went the wrong way, make a U-Turn, and get a headshot on the intended target."
                    - RenegadeRetard

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Update to the map, just a rebuild and repack to make it work with the last patch. Some other small adjustments, nothing big enough to be noteworthy. The lighting in the newest builds of UT is darker than it was, which pushes the map into the territory of unplayability imo. I'll have to update it again later, but I'm probably not going to make any huge changes until the engine and editor stabilize a bit.

                      Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cug7mopmdd...b1_u1.zip?dl=0

                      Comment


                        #12
                        https://www.dropbox.com/s/418sl2xb4u...b1_u4.zip?dl=0

                        Another update to make the map work with the new patch. I made a few lighting changes, postprocess to brighten it up a touch, fixed some bugs, tweaked weapon placement. Let me know how you like it!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hiya,

                          I just played around for a few minutes on this new build, but didn't play the old build.

                          First off, I really like this map! It's really tight and fast, and other than a few 'snaggies' here and there, feel complete and very playable.

                          The lighting is the only problem this map has:

                          It appears (no pun) as if you have not used inverse squared distance fall off for the lights:
                           
                          Spoiler


                          This has two identical spotlights and you guessed it: the one on the left has inverse squared and the one on the right doesn't.

                          My personal recommendation to you would be to redo the lights. My gut feeling would be something like this:

                          1: turn all point and spot lights into inverse squared lights.
                          2: crank up the number of indirect lighting bounces in the 'world settings' to 10-20.
                          3: add a skylight or ambient cubemap in Post Processing to fill out the level. you may already be doing something like this...very hard to tell.
                          4: Once you're happy with the look of the map, you can start cranking up the lighting factors of the spot lights.

                          In a few short minutes I was able to do change the above scene into this:
                           
                          Spoiler

                          The spot lights are respected, but there is now an ambience to the scene and clarity of vision is maintained. You could of course create your own cubemap for ambient, but for this example I used one of the HRDI's in the engine.

                          Excellent work on everything else, simply excellent.
                          Attached Files
                          Maps:

                          DM-PSi ; DM-Genku ; DM-Untold Storage ; DM-Station (WIP) ; DM-HeatRay Physx (WIP)

                          DM/TSD-Formidable (WIP)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I've really been struggling with the lighting, I want to retain something that feels a bit dramatic and moody, but at the same time something that also allows for a playable level. Thanks for your good advice, and feedback.

                            The funny thing about the lighting is that I am already using inverse squared, but I do agree, the way the level looks it would be hard to tell. I'm getting very 'hot' intense highlights while the rest of the map is fairly dark, which results in the auto exposure blowing out the highlights trying to make the rest of the map properly visible. I'm using a skylight, but it's not much help- a cubemap is probably what I need, but so far I haven't been able to get results I like with the ones in the engine, and I'm not really sure how to tweak them or make my own. I've also been planning on redoing the rock ceiling of the caves to let a little more light in there.

                            Glad you like the rest- and yeah, there are definitely snags, got about 30 notes scattered around that I have tagged for a collision fixup.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I've been struggling with lighting too ever since the build where they "fixed" maps being too dark on low settings. Bright maps like all the epic maps are no problem to light (almost effortless even), sunlight and skylight alone do most of it, it's the less brightly lit maps that are a problem.

                              Before that patch I wasn't having much trouble with lighting but ever since then it seems like the contrast between the darkest and brightest parts of the map is too great. I find the only thing that really helps is going with oldschool lighting tricks, dropping in lots of small point lights to brighten up dark spots and a few very large (2000, 3000 or more uu radius) unsourced point lights to brighten up large problem areas.

                              It doesn't help that BSP and meshes don't seem to light the same either. Just replacing some BSP with meshes often means I have to relight the whole area and even then half the time I can get either the BSP or the meshes to look good but not both at the same time.

                              I'll try Mitch's suggestion on increasing lighting bounce and see if that helps... Edit: nope didn't help much.

                              Maybe someone should start a thread about lighting and hopefully someone who's really good with lighting could help... Or better yet maybe Epic could show us how by doing a night time map, dark cave or something besides another brightly lit map.
                              Last edited by MoxNix; 10-24-2015, 08:57 PM.

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