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    [PROTOTYPE] AS-Guardia

    Urgamanix asked me about remaking an assault map from UT99: AS-Guardia. Some of you might already have play-tested it, it's still WIP as we are collecting feedback about the few modifications we are making to it, to avoid too much spamminess while leaving some (since it's the trademark of Guardia).




    The map is available on the Assault server ! If you have ideas or feedback on how we could improve it, please do post in this thread (say if it's nice, or if not, please explain me why and I'll do my best to improve things)

    Assault gametype thread: https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...694-Assault-BP
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Raste; 07-24-2015, 04:56 AM.
    RASTE IN PEACE !
    Maps: DM-Hydraulics | DM-Affliction
    Weapon: Redeemer

    #2
    One problem with Guardia vanilla was, that it was too spammy. I havent played this map yet, but please make it so it wont be that spammy.
    There were different versions of Guardia (Guardia][AL, Guardia]|[AL etc.)
    If you want to remake it the way it was than i gues the map will fail pretty fast when its public, if it's the same as the original offcourse.
    Imo, dont copy/paste the original, make some changes so it isnt as lineair as the original, my 2 cts.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Machoman View Post
      One problem with Guardia vanilla was, that it was too spammy. I havent played this map yet, but please make it so it wont be that spammy.
      There were different versions of Guardia (Guardia][AL, Guardia]|[AL etc.)
      If you want to remake it the way it was than i gues the map will fail pretty fast when its public, if it's the same as the original offcourse.
      Imo, dont copy/paste the original, make some changes so it isnt as lineair as the original, my 2 cts.
      Totally agree! And that vanilla map had very narrow corridors, what is not good for assault

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Machoman View Post
        One problem with Guardia vanilla was, that it was too spammy. I havent played this map yet, but please make it so it wont be that spammy.
        There were different versions of Guardia (Guardia][AL, Guardia]|[AL etc.)
        If you want to remake it the way it was than i gues the map will fail pretty fast when its public, if it's the same as the original offcourse.
        Imo, dont copy/paste the original, make some changes so it isnt as lineair as the original, my 2 cts.
        Originally posted by e1vp View Post
        Totally agree! And that vanilla map had very narrow corridors, what is not good for assault
        I understand your concern guys. We are already at the 6th iteration and we have largely widened the corridors. We have also carved in two new side routes to avoid chokepoints. I really suggest you guys try the map on the Assault server first and then give me your impressions / feedback on how we could improve things. Nothing is set in stone right now in terms of layout and the proportions can be adjusted pretty easily.

        Looking forward to know what you think of this remake !
        RASTE IN PEACE !
        Maps: DM-Hydraulics | DM-Affliction
        Weapon: Redeemer

        Comment


          #5
          I played this map yesterday with Urga and Cafe, and i think its the version you are talking about
          If thats the case my concerns mostly stand though Corridors @ the beginning towards the automated door should be a bit wider, that said, i think there should be a 2nd entrance to enter the Guardia, a 2nd bridge, and 2nd entrance towards the siege tank chamber.
          The width of the bridge is good imo, but the fuse sometimes didnt go off

          Usually assault is played by 6v6, and if you have all players on knocking on 1 door it will go bad I can tell you
          Maybe the 2nd entrance goes through the water and the 2nd bridge is over the 1st bridge so there is a possibility to change your route?
          Just some random thoughts
          I think the key to succesfull assault maps where maps where there was a possibility for teams to change attack strategy, by going an other route/objective and push (Be it with hammer/rocket launching or without)
          This way you had the whole change of scenary and concentration of action.
          Last edited by Machoman; 07-26-2015, 03:34 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Machoman View Post
            I played this map yesterday with Urga and Cafe, and i think its the version you are talking about
            If thats the case my concerns mostly stand though Corridors @ the beginning towards the automated door should be a bit wider, that said, i think there should be a 2nd entrance to enter the Guardia, a 2nd bridge, and 2nd entrance towards the siege tank chamber.
            The width of the bridge is good imo, but the fuse sometimes didnt go off

            Usually assault is played by 6v6, and if you have all players on knocking on 1 door it will go bad I can tell you
            Maybe the 2nd entrance goes through the water and the 2nd bridge is over the 1st bridge so there is a possibility to change your route?
            Just some random thoughts
            I think the key to succesfull assault maps where maps where there was a possibility for teams to change attack strategy, by going an other route/objective and push (Be it with hammer/rocket launching or without)
            This way you had the whole change of scenary and concentration of action.
            Have you used the two new secondary routes ? Because they pretty much do what you are asking for
            RASTE IN PEACE !
            Maps: DM-Hydraulics | DM-Affliction
            Weapon: Redeemer

            Comment


              #7
              Im not sure if i played that version then. Tonight we played some Guardia, and there was as far as i could tell only one route

              Comment


                #8
                There's a way to climb on top of the bridge, and a vent that exits from there. It's not a great route, but it is possible.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Machoman View Post
                  Im not sure if i played that version then. Tonight we played some Guardia, and there was as far as i could tell only one route
                  Originally posted by aniviron View Post
                  There's a way to climb on top of the bridge, and a vent that exits from there. It's not a great route, but it is possible.
                  There are actually two new routes to go around the chokepoints:

                  1) From the first corridor, there is a hatch in the ceiling leading to the other side of the automatic doors
                  2) You can hammer over the lava bridge and get into an air vent that leads directly to the switch room for the tank's door

                  These two have been added to avoid chokepoints and allow a team that communicates well to easily breach through the defense. Have you found those two routes ?
                  RASTE IN PEACE !
                  Maps: DM-Hydraulics | DM-Affliction
                  Weapon: Redeemer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Gameplay from yesterday Guardia V06: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxTX...ature=youtu.be
                    Look at it and we can discuss around it
                    Online nickname: Ba]V[sE or iBamzz
                    [*.se] Starsofsweden
                    Oldschool UT99 Player Since the beginning!

                    You Tube Channel: UT 4 Gameplay HD 60 FPS

                    Adrenaline - UT4 Fragmovie, 2015-06-26 2:07min NEW!!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by iBamzz View Post
                      Gameplay from yesterday Guardia V06: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxTX...ature=youtu.be
                      Look at it and we can discuss around it
                      From this, I will make the following changes:

                      1) The vent of the first corridor will be opened from just above the mini and flak
                      2) Slightly larger first corridor
                      3) Easier to trigger the fuse

                      This should help a lot with the first part of the map already.
                      RASTE IN PEACE !
                      Maps: DM-Hydraulics | DM-Affliction
                      Weapon: Redeemer

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have no idea why you have chosen Guardia as first map to recreate. It's like as if Epic decided to start UT4 development with DM-Morbias. This map doesn't show strong points of gametype and of the game in whole, because it's a one big chokepoint, which reduces your skill and game understanding to zero.

                        Making a good map out of this means reworking it for 99%. It's hard to give any constructive feedback here, but maybe making alternate routes in every corridor, chockepoints widening, rethinking spawns, adding more triggers could pull it out of total grindfest it is. As for example - put a generator in deadend where helmet armor is, which, if destroyed, opens doors permanently, place an explosive somewhere which can make a hole in a wall you can shoot through, make something you can slide underneath, make a platforms under the ceiling you can dodge between, add side platforms in bridge room, etc. The map begs for more space for maneuver.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Bosch View Post
                          I have no idea why you have chosen Guardia as first map to recreate. It's like as if Epic decided to start UT4 development with DM-Morbias. This map doesn't show strong points of gametype and of the game in whole, because it's a one big chokepoint, which reduces your skill and game understanding to zero.

                          Making a good map out of this means reworking it for 99%. It's hard to give any constructive feedback here, but maybe making alternate routes in every corridor, chockepoints widening, rethinking spawns, adding more triggers could pull it out of total grindfest it is. As for example - put a generator in deadend where helmet armor is, which, if destroyed, opens doors permanently, place an explosive somewhere which can make a hole in a wall you can shoot through, make something you can slide underneath, make a platforms under the ceiling you can dodge between, add side platforms in bridge room, etc. The map begs for more space for maneuver.
                          Well, Urgamanix approched me with the will to remake Guardia. Since it's a small map I agreed (I have to leave enough time for my other projects). I've been reworking its layout to make it larger, more spacy and added two extra routes to avoid chokepoints.

                          Have you had the change to test it on the server ?
                          RASTE IN PEACE !
                          Maps: DM-Hydraulics | DM-Affliction
                          Weapon: Redeemer

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Raste View Post
                            Well, Urgamanix approched me with the will to remake Guardia.
                            ...
                            Have you had the change to test it on the server ?
                            Played it maybe a week ago, there were two maps available and the server was packed. That video iBamzz posted shows map problems well - they all keep dying in a same corridor in a 3x3 match for a few minutes and there is not much to do with it, especially with enormous weapon splash damage we have now.
                            First impression are lasting impression, so it's rational to start from well-known map that's been played competitively, that's not overly complex, not very big, not very small. I'm sure there is plenty to choose from.

                            Urgamanix is doing great job with AS, but his map choice makes me puzzled. He must be driven by nostalgia or i don't know.

                            I'm not discouraging you in any way, just saying my thoughts on what is good and what is not for the game.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Good job! I would like to see an improvement of the gameplay, to alter the old levels of ! Add rooms, passages!
                              My old WIP maps!

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