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    #31
    From what I understand maps have to be built with the option ticked so that the lighting is built differently. This would mean it isn't just a simple rendering option you set in your ini file of the public build, rather you have to create and provide those new map versions in some way. Whether that is sufficient for it to work with the public build I'm not entirely sure though.

    I would definitely be up for some testing. An easy guide to do it offline at minimum would make it a lot more accessible.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Stolid View Post
      I would definitely be up for some testing. An easy guide to do it offline at minimum would make it a lot more accessible.
      Agreed!

      It's quite strange to me that some people don't seem to notice it, I even sat down at a friend's rig who was certain there wasn't any lag at all and it had to be my system, but I experienced it just as much on his system as I did on mine. For me it's immediately obvious just standing still and moving the mouse, not only compared to games like Quake Live or CS:GO, but even to "busier" games like Overwatch or even Battlefield.

      Some objective data would probably help, especially in reproducing the problem. I bothered the Battle(non)sense guy, Chris, again and he said that he had an idea how to properly measure the lag between moving the mouse and it happening on screen, and he might give UT a look when he finishes his measuring-thingy.

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        #33
        Weird, your comment wasn't visible for me yet when I posted my previous one.

        Originally posted by Dashiva View Post
        However, getting UT4 to work is probably less than trivial. What I didn't realize when I wrote the first post is that UT4 is built on UE 4.12. The forward renderer is only stable in 4.14+. So, this would necessitate trying to migrate the project to the new version of the engine. I'm not a C++ coder (merely a hobbyist doing this for fun) so whether or not the project would migrate or not is beyond me at the moment. I can take a crack at it. I highly suspect the UT4 team have done some engine level modifications that will need to be merged with the 4.14 source, which is something that is beyond my skills.
        This isn't the case, UT actually runs ahead of the UE builds at the moment.
        You can look at the latest version notes for the game and you"ll see the first line reads: "Updated to Unreal Engine 4.15."
        https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Version_Notes

        It is possible it doesn't support everything though.

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          #34
          Originally posted by Stolid View Post
          Weird, your comment wasn't visible for me yet when I posted my previous one.



          This isn't the case, UT actually runs ahead of the UE builds at the moment.
          You can look at the latest version notes for the game and you"ll see the first line reads: "Updated to Unreal Engine 4.15."
          https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Version_Notes

          It is possible it doesn't support everything though.
          Ok, I will build it against 4.15 and see if it works. Also, I was able to build a version of the default UE4 ShooterGame that is running on forward rendering. I didn't edit any of the .ini files, so you need to open up a console and manipulate
          Code:
          t.maxfps
          to unlock it past 60 fps. As a reminder you can check your fps with
          Code:
          stat fps
          in the console.

          The build for ShooterGame is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byc...ew?usp=sharing

          To me it seems like there is a reduction in input lag with the forward renderer, but there may also be some post processing going on there too, which might hurt. Also, the method ShooterGame is using to process input might be substantially different than UT. I am able to get it to 240fps stable on the "Sanctuary" map with a GTX 1050ti so it might be useful as a test for input lag in generic UE4.
          Last edited by Dashiva; 02-07-2017, 03:41 PM.

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            #35
            Looks like an awesome decision! Where are we about that precise matter though?

            Could you put a finger on the problem [MENTION=280721]spinalfluid[/MENTION]? Any step ahead envisaged?

            Best luck in the process, the only fact you looked at quakelive to compare seems to me, and by itself, looks like a huge step forward! Cheers!
            Official Cod3r Hero: RattleSN4K3!!!
            Official Weapon Designer Hero: Gooba!!!

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              #36
              My notes on my mouse testing experiments:

              I dont notice any tangible difference between having the "skip frame buffer" setting on or off.

              The only way where I can significantly improve the mouse feel is by playing offline with uncapped fps, so my fps stays around 300 instead of 145 which is the max framerate in online play. I can do blind tests on myself by capping and uncapping the framerate using console commands. When playing on 300 fps, I percieve mouse input to be perfect, theres maybe more room for improvement beyond that, but I would probably not be able to tell.

              I know framerate is capped to 145 in online play because of network related issues, but I would be very happy if in the future this was reworked.

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                #37
                I don't know if I have lag, but since the last build release (yesterday and today) I'm experiencing losses of the mouse focus. And I noticed it playing Flag Run, sometimes I can notice it beacuse I see the white arrow of windows and my character doesn't move, other times I don't see the windows arrow and I realice of this issue beacuse I can't move. To fix that, I need "fire" one time to make the game get the mouse focus again and I can move and other "fire" to fire the weapon.

                In Flag Run I noticed very well with the rockect launcher, sometimes I press fire 2 times but the weapon only launches 1 rocket (as I'm moving faster I don't notice being stuck for a moment).

                Maybe my issue it's related with the lag problem. Yesterday I asked for help on the general channel in Discord and some told me if I play the game in fullscreen or windowed. I play the game on fullscreen always and if I have other application open, always it's minimized, but today I've played with no other application open. Only the game.

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                  #38
                  My issues were fixed after downloading this fix for windows 7.
                  http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.co.u...ation-fix.html

                  Plus using the console command ''r.onethreadframelag 0'' in-game.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    The MarkC fix has no impact on the in game mouse as the UT4 input bypasses any windows settings that are impacted by that fix.

                    r.onethreadframelag 0 does lower input lag at the cost of fps.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Thx for the information Stolid. I think it's important to specify now that I actually made my tests Offline with bots and am not seeing really an improvements when I play Online. I can tell from the Stat FPS that when we play online the frame rate is limited automatically to 150 fps. But the mouse input feels more responsive Offline even with just 70-90 fps. So, something is going on there when playing Online and I don't know if that can be fixed.

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                        #41
                        I decided to re-download Quake 3 Arena and investigate why the mouse input or mouse ''feel'' felt so great in that game compared to the one we have in UT4. I’m using the ''Quake III Arena - 1.32", the version that is available on Steam.

                        There are two things that Quake 3 Arena does well:
                        1. Multiple options: Windows cursor, DirectInput & Raw Input
                        2. All those options, I find, feel better than the mouse input that we have in UT4.

                        To change the mouse “feel”, players must change the < in_mouse "1" > setting found in the ''q3config'' file located in:

                        SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Quake 3 Arena\baseq3

                        According to Id Software, the two original mouse “feels” of Quake 3 are “in_mouse -1” and “in_mouse 1”.

                        in_mouse -1
                        To get the same "feel" as version 1.17 of Quake III. Captures the position the Windows cursor and passes that info to the game to change the camera angle. Once that is done for a frame, the cursor is returned to the center of the screen. There is nothing else applied to the data until it gets to the sensitivity, acceleration, m_yaw, and m_pitch part of the code.

                        Pros & cons...
                         
                        Spoiler


                        in_mouse 0
                        No mouse support.

                        in_mouse 1
                        Uses DirectInput to directly acces the mouse, bypassing the windows cursor. It also applies approx. 8-12ms worth of mouse smoothing automatically before reaching the sensitivity and acceleration part of the Q3 code.

                        Pros & cons...
                         
                        Spoiler


                        in_mouse 2
                        According to various sources, this mouse setting bypasses DirectInput and uses WM_INPUT (raw input).


                        [Edited]

                        About the mouse input of UT4
                        I don’t really know how Quake 3 Arena does it under the hood, but what I do know is that any of those settings feel both more responsive and more precise than the mouse input in UT4 that is currently available. The mouse input isn't ''bad'', but I always feel that the mouse doesn’t respond fast enough and even when trying to do subtle movements it moves too much. I find it very difficult to perform flikshots in UT4 compared to any other multiplayer FPS game. I tried to change my polling rate, my screen resolution, fullscreen, window, set the game to the lowest settings, etc. Nothing seems to help. All that said, I hope that the UT devs will look into the source code of Quake 3 Arena to make the mouse feels just as responsive and precise in UT4 in future updates. I also hope that Epic will take the time to add more choices such as Windows cursor, DirectInput & Raw Input.
                        Last edited by Formless Seer; 05-08-2017, 02:08 AM.

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                          #42
                          The mouse feel is better than it used to be, or maybe the netcode has improved. However, I get odd streaks of not being able to hit anything and then other times when every shot feels on point. My aim does not change, only that there's an ebb and flow of shot lag that I cannot explain how or why.
                          irc.globalgamers.net | #2k4ctf |#ut4pugs | #unrealtournament | Ownedwell.com | UT2004 Grail

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                            #43
                            I find that when the task bar is setting to the right of the screen, the mouse will have an right offset to the actual location. (Win10) Anyone have same issue?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Storm_cd yes, this has been reported before and is being looked into by the developers. BTW, this issue is not related to this problems discussed in this thread.
                              "Yeah. _Lynx can fire the lightning gun, have the lightning bolt turn a 90 degree corner, stop and ask the closest teammate for directions, confuse the directions and get lost, realize it went the wrong way, make a U-Turn, and get a headshot on the intended target."
                              - RenegadeRetard

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                                #45
                                It still feels like the engine is trying to do some sort of smoothing.
                                It's really obvious if I try to move my mouse back and forth as fast as possible in this game, it actually feels smoother than if I play another game in which I even get higher FPS. In other games the mouse is less smooth and much more "crisp" feeling.

                                I get the feeling that in this game they do in fact have some smoothing filters on that can't be disabled and in trying to fix these mouse issues they're just trying to balance it. If that's the case I just want to suggest that they give an option to completely disable all of that.

                                The solution should be really simple shouldn't it? Just loop through all mouse events only updating the data internally without drawing to the screen, and only draw to the screen after the very last mouse event. That's all that needs to be done. If you're doing anything at all to try and draw intermediate frames, no matter how optimal your algorithm is, or how subtle you think the smoothing is, it's going to be noticed by the more experienced players and it's going to throw their game off.

                                No interpolation, no smoothing, of any kind at all, every single frame should be drawn with the absolute most up to date data on a completely empty mouse event buffer. Please.
                                Last edited by ison111; 06-18-2017, 03:27 PM.

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