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  • replied
    It's almost certainly both, but mouse movement is the obvious one. In theory it's possible one is more affected than the other, by lag, by inaccuracy or both.

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  • replied
    if it's movement then I'm unaware of it. i know different FOV changes the speed of the movement and that is f'd up but i've never felt movement lag

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Movement.

    I cant notice it to be honest. Sometimes if I focus on it, it feels like a delay, but it could quite easily be a trick of the mind.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Are we talking about mouse click input lag, or mouse movement input lag?

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Resolution: 1920x1080
    Monitor Size: 24" 144 Hz
    GPU: 970 - Vsync Disabled
    Mouse: Zowie FK2 at 400 DPI
    Windows 10 Sensitivity: 6 (Precision is unchecked)
    In-game Sensitivity: 0.75

    I can maintain a constant 150 frame-cap at full resolution. However, the mouse is much "tighter" when I play at 800x600. The only problem is that I can barely see my targets at such a low res. The mouse felt much better when I was able to bypass the 150 frame cap. The only issue was that anything above 150 would result in horrid network performance.

    Could this at all be tied to the way UT deals with networking? You can test this by playing on a local server. After that, go and play on a server that's overseas. The mouse will feel way more floaty.



    It's great that you guys are looking into the mouse issue. However, I think the networking is a far bigger problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    I already posted on the Reddit thread, but here it is again. Hope it helps!

    DxDiag
    • Samsung 1920 x 1080 60Hz monitor
    • UT4 important graphic settings: Fullscreen, VSync: off, Frame rate cap: 0, smooth framerate: off, Skip GPU buffering: off.
    • UT4 graphic settings: Screen percentage: 100%, Texture high, view distance medium, everything else low, FOV: 100
    • Mouse: Logitech G500, 500DPI, Polling rate: 500
    • UT4 Mouse settings: mouse smoothing: off, invert mouse: off, mouse sensitivity: 2.0, mouse acceleration: off, acceleration amount: 0.0, acceleration max: 0.0
    • Windows mouse settings: bar in the middle (6th option), enhance pointer precision: off
    • On textured maps, I run 70 - 100fps with 8-12ms delay. The issue I have is I feel that the screen lags behind on the mouse movement. Not so much that it's super dramatic, but I can feel it. It feels a bit like vsync.. Don't know well how to describe this. Also, when I measure my mouse settings (full mouse mat sweep on a 360 angle), I don't really get the exact same distance. I feel like the speed with which I move my mouse could have an impact on the sensitivity.

      Also my CPU is OC'd to 4.5Ghz (native 3.3Ghz)

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    To solve this problem, this is where I would start. Disclaimer: The following is just an educated guess, and it's probably exactly what "input-to-photon" is referring to.

    Naturally, there's a ton of stuff happening with the engine during every frame. And from what I've seen, it's safe to say that there have been some "shortcuts" taken to implement certain features as quickly as possible, which usually means things aren't as efficient as they could be and/or the order (priority) of events is less than ideal. So with that said, I would bet that, upon each frame (tick), processing the input is towards the end of the event loop, when it should be at the very beginning. Because if input is processed first (at the beginning of each frame), which should ultimately update the client's entire game state, when the actual rendering occurs during the remainder of the frame (tick), the rendered frame will more accurately represent/reflect the change caused by the input. Whereas, like it is currently (just an assumption), the input is processed towards the end of the frame, which means the rendered frame can't possibly accurately reflect the change in input and results in perceivable mouse lag.

    Figure out how to process input before everything else during each frame, and I think the problem will be solved.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Not gonna lie, this is a step in the right direction.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    This is absolutely fantastic news that Epic is doing some research on the mouse input! Thank you for understanding and looking into it! I am willing to contribute any more evidence if needed. Just give me a PM on discord or the forums!

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    1. Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 14393)
    2. System Manufacturer: ASUS Z87 Pro
    3. Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.9GHz
    4. Memory: 16384MB RAM (Kingston HyperX Fury PC14900)
    5. Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
    6. Dedicated Memory: 8145 MB
    7. Current Mode: 2560 x 1440 (32 bit) (120Hz)
    8. Monitor Name: Crossover
    9. Monitor Model: 27QHD
    10. Native Mode: 2560 x 1440(p) (59.951Hz)
    11. Output Type: DVI
    12. Driver: 372.70-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
    13. Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Core (DPI: 900/1800/3000: 1800 for UT) Polling Rate: 1000
    14. Windows mouse options: Motion (pointer speed): Medium / No enhanced precision, no snap to, etc.
    15. Sound (Onboard): Realtek ALC1150 8-Channel
    16. Keyboard: Logitech G105

    In-game settings:

    1. No mouse smoothing, sensitivity: 8.77, no acceleration
    2. Fullscreen, no Vsync, Epic settings, FXAA @ 120Hz (monitor refresh rate)
    3. No custom .ini changes

    I don’t notice any significant input lag. No crashes, stutters, or problems running the game at all. My UT install is vanilla; I don’t play often and don’t want to make any changes to the game files (I want the ‘raw’ experience of new builds). Thanks for doing this Epic (even though I don't perceive any problems).

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    tl:dr

    Not sure if it's been mentioned but the USB port plays a big roll, yes, roll like a roll of bread, lol. But seriously though if the controller hub is on a timer system like IRQ it can effect the input. Also, if multiple devices are on the IRQ e.g. 16 there can be some interference. I use to game on USB 2.0. All through UT3 and some of UT4. I recently swapped out my EVGA board for an X58 board with a USB 3.0 board. I didn't know USB 3.0 ran devices in MSI mode. The USB 3.0 hub/controller is xHCI. The movement and syncing with the game is as huge as going to an SSD or from a 60Hz to a 144Hz monitor. The difference is noticeable in every single game I play. From UT4 to CS:GO and Rising Storm. The point is we also have to look at the internals of how our devices are running.

    EDIT: another thing is if you are doing registry editing with your TCP stack e.g. TcpAckFrequency and it's set to 1 then you are going to have input lag due to the amount of networking congestion going on. It's not noticeable with 1v1 but a full server will moderately to severely effect your pc's performance. It may not be noticeable on high end modern Intel Processors but it's noticeable on legacy platforms.
    Last edited by 213; 10-01-2016, 10:05 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    The move towards DX12 and uncapping framerates while nice, seems like a non solution, at least as a general one that will apply to almost everyone. Even 2 years from now not everyone will run software and hardware that is capable of handling dx12 and the majority of gamers probably won't be able to achieve stable fps that is significantly higher than 150.

    As far as getting quantifiable data, by far the easier way would be to go the route of flood's input lag measurements. $50 worth of hardware that can measure sub millisecond input lag.
    Even with all that data the problem as to finding out what the cause is isn't straightforward. Assuming it will show a significant input lag (which it will) it doesn't necessarily mean it is the main cause. The only way to make sure is to reduce the input lag to QL or CS:GO levels and then play again to see if it feels good. So to even get to the point of finding out if it's something other than input lag would require solving the problem of input lag first. Because of how the engine works this seems unfeasible at this point.

    Having said that, there are a handful of UE3 games that have better mouse input than UT4/UE4 and AFAIK (correct me if I'm wrong) that engine has the same limitations/rendering architecture UE4 has as far as input lag. If that is indeed the case then an input lag test could in theory show some additional input lag (extra frames or otherwise) that UE4 has on top of UE3. Since it shouldn't show that effect it would be a discovery of a bug and open up a way of investigation.

    In the short term I'm personally most interested in the forward renderer that is being developed as it should give higher fps and lower input lag. Even though it is being developed for VR I hope the UT team puts some resources towards supporting it and soon making it possible to enable in UT as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Awesome, lets get this fixed!


    Corsiar Sabre Gaming Mouse set set to 1500 X1500 DPI with the Corsair software.


    Device Name: Corsair Gaming SABRE RGB Laser Mouse
    Attached: 1
    Controller ID: 0x0
    Vendor/Product ID: 0x1B1C, 0x1B19
    FF Driver: n/a

    Device Name: Corsair K40 Gaming Keyboard
    Attached: 1
    Controller ID: 0x0
    Vendor/Product ID: 0x1B1C, 0x1B0E
    FF Driver: n/a


    ------------------
    System Information
    ------------------
    Time of this report: 9/30/2016, 12:33:39
    Machine name: INFERNO
    Machine Id:
    Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 14393) (14393.rs1_release_inmarket.160906-1818)
    Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
    System Manufacturer: ASUS
    System Model: All Series
    BIOS: BIOS Date: 08/15/14 15:17:17 Ver: 21.03
    Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4670K CPU @ 3.40GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.4GHz
    Memory: 16384MB RAM
    Available OS Memory: 16322MB RAM
    Page File: 5498MB used, 17231MB available
    Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
    DirectX Version: DirectX 12
    DX Setup Parameters: Not found
    User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
    System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
    Miracast: Available, with HDCP
    Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Not Supported
    DxDiag Version: 10.00.14393.0000 64bit Unicode

    ---------------
    Display Devices
    ---------------
    Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980
    Manufacturer: NVIDIA
    Chip type: GeForce GTX 980
    DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
    Device Type: Full Device
    Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13C0&SUBSYS_29813842&REV_A1
    Device Status: 0180200A [DN_DRIVER_LOADED|DN_STARTED|DN_DISABLEABLE|DN_NT_ENUMERATOR|DN_NT_DRIVER]
    Device Problem Code: No Problem
    Driver Problem Code: Unknown
    Display Memory: 12221 MB
    Dedicated Memory: 4060 MB
    Shared Memory: 8160 MB
    Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
    Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
    Monitor Model: ASUS VN247
    Monitor Id: ACI24C3
    Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
    Output Type: HDMI
    Driver Name: C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispiwu.inf_amd64_9ff5ab165faead52\nvd3dumx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispiwu.inf_amd64_9ff5ab165faead52\nvwgf2umx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispiwu.inf_amd64_9ff5ab165faead52\nvwgf2umx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispiwu.inf_amd64_9ff5ab165faead52\nvwgf2umx.dll
    Driver File Version: 21.21.0013.6909 (English)
    Driver Version: 21.21.13.6909
    DDI Version: 12
    Feature Levels: 12_1,12_0,11_1,11_0,10_1,10_0,9_3,9_2,9_1
    Driver Model: WDDM 2.1
    Graphics Preemption: DMA
    Compute Preemption: DMA
    Miracast: Not Supported
    Hybrid Graphics GPU: Not Supported
    Power P-states: Not Supported
    Driver Attributes: Final Retail
    Driver Date/Size: 7/31/2016 8:00:00 PM, 17799424 bytes
    WHQL Logo'd: n/a
    WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
    Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-5080-11CF-0F41-8C091BC2D835}
    Vendor ID: 0x10DE
    Device ID: 0x13C0
    SubSys ID: 0x29813842
    Revision ID: 0x00A1
    Driver Strong Name: oem59.inf:0f066de3ad09d9de:Section090:21.21.13.6909ci\ven_10de&dev_13c0
    Rank Of Driver: 00D12001
    Video Accel:
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    D3D9 Overlay: Supported
    DXVA-HD: Supported
    DDraw Status: Enabled
    D3D Status: Enabled
    AGP Status: Enabled
    MPO Caps: Not Supported
    MPO Stretch: Not Supported
    MPO Media Hints: Not Supported
    MPO Formats: Not Supported
    Last edited by PayBack; 09-30-2016, 02:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    CPU: Intel Xeon X5460 @ 4GHz
    RAM: 8GB DDR3
    GPU: AMD Radeon HD 6870
    GPU drivers:
    Code:
    Driver Packaging Version	15.201.1151.1008-151104a-296217E
    Provider	Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
    2D Driver Version	8.01.01.1500
    2D Driver File Path	/REGISTRY/MACHINE/SYSTEM/ControlSet001/Control/Class/{4d36e968-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}/0000
    Direct3D Version	9.14.10.01128
    OpenGL Version	6.14.10.13399
    Mantle Driver Version	9.1.10.0083
    Mantle API Version	Not Available
    AMD Catalyst Control Center Version	2015.1104.1643.30033
    Windows 10 Pro build 10586
    Here's DxDiag if you need it: DxDiag.zip

    Monitor is a CRT (minimal processing lag), connected through DVI-I, running UT4 at 134Hz (also tried 160Hz, no real difference)

    Mouse is a Logitech G100s, 1000CPI, 500Hz polling rate

    UT screen settings: 800x600@134Hz true full screen, VSync unchecked, 136 FPS cap (tried capping with outside program, and uncapped; didn't make a difference), Smooth Framerate unchecked, Screen Percentage 100%, Graphics settings all on Low, Reflection Environment Mapping and Tone Mapper Film unchecked in Advanced Options, Skip GPU Buffering checked.

    Windows mouse settings: Pointer Precision unchecked, 6/11

    .ini has r.OneFrameThreadLag 0 in it, which reduces the amount of perceivable input lag. Default setting is 1, which noticeably increases the amount of input lag.

    Other information: While movement plays a part in how the mouse input is perceived (the slow and floaty dodging makes it feel worse), even if you stand still and move only your mouse, you can notice that UT4 has more input lag than UT99/Reflex/QL.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    I would like to help with this in any way I can. One thing I would like to point out is that a good deal of the people that I have dealt with who have experienced this problem did not experience it in editor builds, even playing the game through a custom built editor. Is it possible that the PAK system/UFS problems are contributing to this?

    Leave a comment:

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