Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What UT doesn't need. An essay.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by UnrealBeast View Post
    I feel like some players are against ranking/achievements just "because".
    When you ask them why, their answer is "not needed". No actual reasoning behind it...

    How does having elements that DO NOT go against gameplay harm people?
    If you think that in 2014, you can be successful releasing a game straight from 1999, good luck. Do not complain when this game will die after 5 months.
    Because the problem is whithin some players that want to keep this whole game a complete remake from 15 years ago.
    Even the worst game of this generation presents achievements, rankings, and in general, a reason for players to come back. Wake up, people.
    You want to keep this game "super mega old school skillz based yo competitive no bs", and I understand it, but this whole "games of today are trash and present trashy options/features" logic needs to go away.
    Please, remember that this game isn't supposed to appeal a limited range of players from 1999 or 2004. It is supposed to appeal players from 2014 too.
    As much as I hate Call Of Duty for its boring gameplay, you have to admit there are several games COD games do the right way. One of them is giving players a reason to come back, gain, earn, and feel satisfied even if they are not the best players in the world.
    While I do agree on the fact this game has to BE an Unreal Tournament game. "UT" doesn't mean Jurassic Park, or "can't change nothing because otherwise we lose the formula".
    Do I have to mention all the FPS arena game that had a remake in the last few years, with decent/good products, and died after several months if not weeks?
    You wanna know why? Simple. Nobody wants to play something that plays, feels, and presents the same options/features of a 1999 game.
    I loved the old UT, but, for the love of god, be open minded. You can hate today's gaming industry how much you want, but denying that things have changed/progressed since 1999 is not making any sense.
    You wanna keep the same old school structure? Nice, you want this game to be a new Painkiller, a new Serious Sam, a new Nexuiz. The mentioned games recently came out, keeping the same old old school formula, being almost remakes of old titles, and guess what? They are EMPTY online, and failures.
    And how can you blame people? I am pretty much an hardcore player. Loved UT 1999, but I AM DYING to see changes in the franchise, because, I am myself tired of seeing the same old game that is too scared to innovate, get modern and try new things. And if I am tired, be sure that casual players are most likely gonna run away once they see the game is the same as the old ones.
    Seriously. I see so many old school players in these topics bashing new potential features just because "they are not needed". What kind of argument is this?
    If you think trying something new is not needed why are you even craving a new UT? Go play one of the old games and enjoy that.
    I am seriously starting to wonder if some people in here want this game to succeed, or they are just trying to give themselves a nice fan service/nostalgic remake.
    Thank God I have seen developers showing a great mindset in here, but, phew, some people here have missed the last 15 years of gaming/progress.
    To put it in a simple way: you NEED casual players to check this game out everyday. You NEED everybody to talk about this game.
    You are not gonna have people suggesting a game to their friends, if said game is missing fundamental features in this era of gaming.

    P.S.
    I respect everyone's opinion. That is why I read everyone's post.
    What I am trying to say is that too many people seem to completely ignore and compare today's releases in the gaming industry.
    You can hate games of today HOW MUCH you want, but you HAVE to compare what this new game is going offer to their offerings. Period.
    In no way you can succeed in a market without matching what competition is offering, and/or doing better than you. You can have the best gameplay in history, and you might still have empty servers.
    UT '99 didn't have the competition a game of today has. Times have changed.
    Well said. I've been trying to get people to explain themselves and they can't.

    Comment


      MAybe you guys are overthinking things. Maybe you are dead wrong in saying that achievements would make people happy. Maybe you underestimate the market. Maybe they are as sick of it as I am. I don't know, and frankly I don't really care.
      I can only repeat myself and ask again, why are we having this discussion about GUI messages in a game that doesn't have a single line of code yet? The core game is not there yet, why would you even be interested in talking about this? I mean Starman, if this were a developer meeting about a new game, would THIS topic really be even on the list for today? Or would the whole table drop their pencils and look at you like like you were the cleaning lady barging in? I think it's the latter.
      Last edited by raeg; 05-15-2014, 12:52 PM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Zoddom View Post
        And to make this clear, when I speak of achievements, I mean achievements as we know them today, not for example things like the awards in BF2 (or even rewards for won tournaments)
        for these were completely different to what we have in most steam games today for example
        Then, I say the case for (steam, etc)achievements has yet to be made; at present I don't believe they're needed; but, I would be interested to see some examples from the "for" side of the discussion to demonstrate the kind of ideas that they would offer regarding fitting unlock conditions.
        Last edited by Spinarax; 05-15-2014, 02:55 PM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by raeg View Post
          MAybe you guys are overthinking things. Maybe you are dead wrong in saying that achievements would make people happy. Maybe you underestimate the market. Maybe they are as sick of it as I am. I don't know, and frankly I don't really care.
          I can only repeat myself and ask again, why are we having this discussion about GUI messages in a game that doesn't have a single line of code yet? The core game is not there yet, why would you even be interested in talking about this? I mean Starman, if this were a developer meeting about a new game, would THIS topic really be even on the list for today? Or would the whole table drop their pencils and look at you like like you were the cleaning lady barging in? I think it's the latter.
          How is adding something which is pretty much expected, and has API calls in place "overthinking things"?

          Maybe YOU are wrong. I would say you are since Epic has API calls for achievements in the engine already. It would be naive to think that there won't be.

          I've been a developer for a very long time. The worst kinds of people are the ones that can't open their eyes.

          Open your eyes.

          Comment


            Originally posted by starman View Post
            How is adding something which is pretty much expected, and has API calls in place "overthinking things"?

            Maybe YOU are wrong. I would say you are since Epic has API calls for achievements in the engine already. It would be naive to think that there won't be.

            I've been a developer for a very long time. The worst kinds of people are the ones that can't open their eyes.

            Open your eyes.
            It seems like I cannot stress it enough:

            THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHAT WE THINK WILL BE IN GAME!

            This thread is about what we WANT NOT to be in game.
            veritas filia temporis

            Comment


              Originally posted by Zoddom View Post
              It seems like I cannot stress it enough:

              THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHAT WE THINK WILL BE IN GAME!

              This thread is about what we WANT NOT to be in game.
              It's a discussion. I think you're wrong and I'm voicing my opinion as to why.

              Comment


                My opinion I loved UT3 but it was the addition of Vehicles where things kind of got derailed.

                What I saw was UT go from what was suppose to be a 110 mile an hour FPS no thinking involved shooter to a walk about more fitting of an MMO.

                Typical formula for FPS is you span and with in the first 15 seconds you should be shooting at an opponent. If vehicles are involved you spawn and then spend the first 15 seconds looking for a vehicle, if one is even available, and if not then spend the next 60 seconds running by foot across the map to get back into the action or waiting around for one to return.

                Maybe just me but waiting and running is not what I would call good game design for an FPS.

                This addition did not effect my enjoyment as I generally played game types that did not involve vehicles but it was vehicles that got most of the bad press as well as most of the apposing complaints as to the ideals of what Unreal Tournament was about that had nothing to do with feature additions more fitting of an MMO.

                Unreal Tournament 4 did solve the problem by changing the name of the game to Gears of War.

                As to keep everyone happy though I think the following would work.

                1) Players can load out with their vehicle of choice and will spawn in that vehicle with out the need to run around to find one available.
                2) The game is released with out vehicle maps and is left up to 3rd party mapmakers to make them.

                This would then place the idea of vehicles into the hands of the community who do enjoy such features but since it is a choice to be made it becomes a community meta feature that is not effected by bad press.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by FrankieV View Post
                  My opinion I loved UT3 but it was the addition of Vehicles where things kind of got derailed.

                  What I saw was UT go from what was suppose to be a 110 mile an hour FPS no thinking involved shooter to a walk about more fitting of an MMO.

                  Typical formula for FPS is you span and with in the first 15 seconds you should be shooting at an opponent. If vehicles are involved you spawn and then spend the first 15 seconds looking for a vehicle, if one is even available, and if not then spend the next 60 seconds running by foot across the map to get back into the action or waiting around for one to return.

                  Maybe just me but waiting and running is not what I would call good game design for an FPS.

                  This addition did not effect my enjoyment as I generally played game types that did not involve vehicles but it was vehicles that got most of the bad press as well as most of the apposing complaints as to the ideals of what Unreal Tournament was about that had nothing to do with feature additions more fitting of an MMO.

                  Unreal Tournament 4 did solve the problem by changing the name of the game to Gears of War.

                  As to keep everyone happy though I think the following would work.

                  1) Players can load out with their vehicle of choice and will spawn in that vehicle with out the need to run around to find one available.
                  2) The game is released with out vehicle maps and is left up to 3rd party mapmakers to make them.

                  This would then place the idea of vehicles into the hands of the community who do enjoy such features but since it is a choice to be made it becomes a community meta feature that is not effected by bad press.
                  If vehicles are put in the hands of the community, it bloats the maps because the vehicles have to be added, and you get an inconsistent look and feel for each vehicle designer.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by FrankieV View Post
                    This would then place the idea of vehicles into the hands of the community who do enjoy such features but since it is a choice to be made it becomes a community meta feature that is not effected by bad press.
                    Bad press? Vehicles HELPED Ut2k4 get highly rated by reviewers.. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/un...ournament-2004
                    DANG YOU UT2K4 KIDS! GET OFF MY LAWN!

                    Comment


                      I loved vehicles. Onslaught maps were a lot of fun.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by starman View Post
                        If vehicles are put in the hands of the community, it bloats the maps because the vehicles have to be added, and you get an inconsistent look and feel for each vehicle designer.
                        Well since UT4, or what ever it is going to be called, is going to be a free release I really don't expect a full featured release at the same level as past versions of the game. From my understanding UT4 is going to be another sample of what the Unreal Engine 4 engine can do based on a single focused project.

                        If it came out as expected as a “for sale” AAA title I would be very surprised.

                        As for community additions after release it seems to be the number one demand yet as a developer I would be more interested in seeing how it's all glued together and a lot more interested the release of UT4 also included map editing tools that I/we can add to our own projects.

                        Comment


                          If it's Onslought, then I don't see the problem. Since when is more content a bad thing? If it's DM with vehicles (looking at DM Heat Ray for example) then I see huge problems too.

                          Originally posted by starman View Post
                          How is adding something which is pretty much expected, and has API calls in place "overthinking things"?
                          Is this really what you got out of my post? Really? I think I have to throw the towel on this one. Maybe if you want to get serious we can continue. Or better, when the right time comes to talk about such irrelevant features at this point.
                          Last edited by raeg; 05-15-2014, 01:59 PM.

                          Comment


                            Saying vehicles killed ut is completely and definitively random =) . Your opinion because it's "yours" and that you think it's right does not necessarily mean it's right. U got nothing to back it up in terms of facts, purely and simply.
                            If you dont like warfare vctf etc whatever, just dont play it. What you got to know is ppl rarely play exclusively only vehicles gametypes. All those vehicles gametypes are FANTASTIC to allow newer guys to a franchise/game (especially when it's known to be "hard" for the newcomers) because either U LIKE IT OR NOT and this is a true fact, the casual players represents a humongous part of the playerbase.

                            They get their first glimpses/glances of what they should do such as fragpower and team play/coordination. So they start with non fragcount oriented modes where they can finish 10/50 k/d but still be pretty useful for their team.
                            It, even if they dont kill like crazy, value their role in the team and not ragequitting after getting obliterated 5/50 in dm repetitively. They feel important and useful while they get skill along their UT journey to finally get some enough fragpower and so on

                            I started with warfare and dm then focused on warfare. The stronger i was getting (fragpower wise) the more i started to hate vehicles gametype to basically drop it entirely. I started to play tdm and duel and reached a more than decent level in those 2 (i wont go in detail but i'm more on top of the pyramid than on the bottom, i can prove it in case of some doubt it though). So i started with link sec-ing core in warfare to the "top" duel/tdm.
                            In all honesty, i would have played exclusively dm or sth like that, i would have certainly stopped UT way before than i did. I became pretty active on the game and outside of it organizing cups, helping truuuuuuuuckload of ppl to set their ut3 inis/settings via forums/IRC /tutorials uploading so much demos from the past of highskill ppl and helping new guys to learn faster etc etc etc....

                            All of that because of a starting newbie vehicle noob =) .....

                            I pretty much hate vehicles now subjectively saying BUT objectively saying and it's what matters it would be the BIGGEST mistake ever to not provide vehicles based gametype in UT with at least ONE (ons/warfare/vctf w/e) at release to allow newbies to jump in. Period.
                            Last edited by Lwlf; 05-15-2014, 02:35 PM.
                            Official Cod3r Hero: RattleSN4K3!!!
                            Official Weapon Designer Hero: Gooba!!!

                            Comment


                              But wouldnt you say that people who start with playing vehicle modes will get a totally wrong idea of the game itself?
                              They see this vehicle mode, start thinking about how the game is itself, then switch to other modes and their expectations are completeky overthrown. So why even bother including vehicle modes then?
                              veritas filia temporis

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Zoddom View Post
                                But wouldnt you say that people who start with playing vehicle modes will get a totally wrong idea of the game itself?
                                They see this vehicle mode, start thinking about how the game is itself, then switch to other modes and their expectations are completeky overthrown. So why even bother including vehicle modes then?
                                No. That's ridiculous.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X