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What UT doesn't need. An essay.

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    ...okay, can somebody explain how little popups that appear for a few seconds in some remote corner of the screen could impair the experience of an otherwise perfectly good game?

    I had to shake my head when I read that people are actually saying that they won't buy the game if it contains achievements. "Yeah, who cares about Unreal Tournament? Who cares about the gameplay? Who cares about the revival of the Arena Shooter in a modern gaming environment? As long as those little popups appear every now and then in some remote corner of the screen, my entire experience is RUINED!"

    Or, going even further, "I don't care that I can disable those little popups! As long as they EXIST, my entire experience is RRRRUINED!"

    Comment


      Originally posted by ThePaSch View Post
      ...okay, can somebody explain how little popups that appear for a few seconds in some remote corner of the screen could impair the experience of an otherwise perfectly good game?

      I had to shake my head when I read that people are actually saying that they won't buy the game if it contains achievements. "Yeah, who cares about Unreal Tournament? Who cares about the gameplay? Who cares about the revival of the Arena Shooter in a modern gaming environment? As long as those little popups appear every now and then in some remote corner of the screen, my entire experience is RUINED!"

      Or, going even further, "I don't care that I can disable those little popups! As long as they EXIST, my entire experience is RRRRUINED!"
      Some people are just purists and can't open their mind to new things, nor can they understand the needs of the modern gamer.

      Comment


        I don't even think it's a "need" in any form or meaning; games could do very well without achievements. I don't mind them, and I can't see why anyone would mind them, because they are on an entirely different level of the whole experience - I agree that achievements that somehow mess with the core gameplay are to be detested, but what's wrong with a "Get 5000 headshots"? Or even a "Snipe someone out of the air with a rocket"? It ain't gonna hurt anyone, it makes the game a pick-up for hardcore completionists, and whoever doesn't need or want them can simply ignore them.

        Where's the point of the discussion? You know, the one that ended in this rage-fueled feud? We're supposed to be talking about game design here, not re-enact our Kindergarten days. I understand that UT is a passionate topic for many a visitor of this forum - I love it, too, and I don't want to see it end up CoD-ized, but something as simple as achievements won't make that fear come true.

        Comment


          all the old video games you plugged quarters down had a highest scores you plugged in your initials with..HAH ME, brag brag
          and well all the cheaters in UT aimbotting trying to top higher than the next player HA ME brag brag.
          The competiveness creates the do better your mad skillz. and thus if you see a player in the stats you join a server and he'/she's in there it may start up your adrenaline to game harder.

          Comment


            Imho matchmaking is a must in modern UT. Especially for duels. New players should have an easy way to find game proper for their skill.
            Unofficial Enforcer Model
            Redesigning Enforcer Firemodes

            Comment


              Originally posted by dinwitty View Post
              all the old video games you plugged quarters down had a highest scores you plugged in your initials with..HAH ME, brag brag
              and well all the cheaters in UT aimbotting trying to top higher than the next player HA ME brag brag.
              The competiveness creates the do better your mad skillz. and thus if you see a player in the stats you join a server and he'/she's in there it may start up your adrenaline to game harder.
              Do you really think that a competitive player will try to be better than another because of his achievements?
              Or didnt I understand what you said?
              veritas filia temporis

              Comment


                Originally posted by ThePaSch View Post
                what's wrong with a "Get 5000 headshots"? Or even a "Snipe someone out of the air with a rocket"? It ain't gonna hurt anyone, it makes the game a pick-up for hardcore completionists, and whoever doesn't need or want them can simply ignore them.
                You've got to be a bit cautious there in what you set the unlock criteria to. What can tend to happen is that people start making maps just to manufacture achievements "join my game - guaranteed achievement...Please rate!" - or, they join games with the main aim to farm these "goals". I'm not convinced that encouraging this kind of approach is beneficial to the game.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by starman View Post
                  Some people are just purists and can't open their mind to new things, nor can they understand the needs of the modern gamer.
                  I lol'd. The "needs of a modern gamer." That was... well, it was funny.

                  You want your stupid, pointless, asinine little "achievements?" I don't care, just so long as there's an option to disable all notification of them and make it so that those who don't care or actively hate the sheer pointlessness of them don't even have to be aware of their existence.

                  "Needs of the modern gamer." Oh my God.

                  You've got to be a bit cautious there in what you set the unlock criteria to. What can tend to happen is that people start making maps just to manufacture achievements "join my game - guaranteed achievement...Please rate!" - or, they join games with the main aim to farm these "goals". I'm not convinced that encouraging this kind of approach is beneficial to the game.
                  EDIT:

                  This. Oh dear Lord, this. I had completely forgotten about TF2 and its "achievements." Servers CONSTANTLY became "achievement farms" in which players would do NOTHING but sit there and mine achievements oh God kill it kill it with fire.

                  The answer is NO. No "achievements." None. Nada. Full stop. Get that **** the HECK out of my skill-based arena shooter.

                  Nobody cares about your 5000 headshots. Nobody cares about your 50 hours of play, or your ability to press a button in a menu (It's A Barbie World! -50g Equipped a Hat). Nobody cares about things you are NATURALLY going to "achieve" over the course of normal play like everyone else. Make it die and go away. Stopping this awful awful fail train of game development should start with games like the new UT specifically not helping to facilitate it.
                  Last edited by mastermanaic; 05-17-2014, 01:40 PM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by mastermanaic View Post
                    I lol'd. The "needs of a modern gamer." That was... well, it was funny.

                    You want your stupid, pointless, asinine little "achievements?" I don't care, just so long as there's an option to disable all notification of them and make it so that those who don't care or actively hate the sheer pointlessness of them don't even have to be aware of their existence.

                    "Needs of the modern gamer." Oh my God.



                    EDIT:

                    This. Oh dear Lord, this. I had completely forgotten about TF2 and its "achievements." Servers CONSTANTLY became "achievement farms" in which players would do NOTHING but sit there and mine achievements oh God kill it kill it with fire.

                    The answer is NO. No "achievements." None. Nada. Full stop. Get that **** the HECK out of my skill-based arena shooter.

                    Nobody cares about your 5000 headshots. Nobody cares about your 50 hours of play, or your ability to press a button in a menu (It's A Barbie World! -50g Equipped a Hat). Nobody cares about things you are NATURALLY going to "achieve" over the course of normal play like everyone else. Make it die and go away. Stopping this awful awful fail train of game development should start with games like the new UT specifically not helping to facilitate it.
                    Might I remind you that there's already an achievement API? Sorry.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by starman View Post
                      Might I remind you that there's already an achievement API? Sorry.
                      Um, so what?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by starman View Post
                        Might I remind you that there's already an achievement API? Sorry.
                        Design will lead on this kind of thing, where we're going to see a community take over after the groundwork has been laid.
                        As much as you may want to see the game including all mod cons, as I look at this case, I don't want to see dedicated players that want to jump in and play some UT, marginalised by people for whom the game's wellbeing, and other's enjoyment of it is a secondary concern.
                        I don't want a perception of needing to really have to scour the server lists to find the actual games to take root.
                        I also do not want to see a point reached that the higher skilled players feel obliged to purposefully segregate, because they cannot typically rely on the support of players.

                        No. Design will lead, and in this case, my view is that it simply must.
                        So, if we can have achievements that do serve as reflections of accomplishment (service commendations - I believe Battlefield 2 was mentioned earlier as a focus point) then that's something I could go along with, happily. An at-a-glance of a player's record can serve all kinds of useful purposes - the observer can still check the data, and it would all be right there should they choose.

                        For me, it's got to serve the game(play), and console/steam style achievements simply don't.

                        Comment


                          In all these threads people argue about what ut really is?

                          Most of the time what UT really is is just defined by what game they started playing.


                          Thats how it was done all the years and the playerbase of FPS didn't suddenly lose their ability to socialize and communicate.
                          Sorry but i am afraid they have.
                          given the options of either

                          A: click play/matchmaking play a game with players of roughly the same skill in their preferred gamemode
                          or
                          B: search for irc channels, register with a pickup bot, wait for pickup maches to actually happen, then connect to a server only given an ip.

                          What do you think which group of players will choose B?
                          Only the ones who are already familiar with that stuff because theyve been sticking around for a long time and played ut99, quake etc.
                          So in the end you have a lot of players who are really skilled in arena/twitch fps games and a small amount of new players which actually choose option B instad of option A (= another game). The relatively new players will get their asses kicked from all the old guys and most of them will propaly loose interest in the game because of that.
                          So in the end the only people that will play the new UT are the ones that already play UT right now.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by chroot View Post
                            In all these threads people argue about what ut really is?

                            Most of the time what UT really is is just defined by what game they started playing.




                            Sorry but i am afraid they have.
                            given the options of either

                            A: click play/matchmaking play a game with players of roughly the same skill in their preferred gamemode
                            or
                            B: search for irc channels, register with a pickup bot, wait for pickup maches to actually happen, then connect to a server only given an ip.

                            What do you think which group of players will choose B?
                            Only the ones who are already familiar with that stuff because theyve been sticking around for a long time and played ut99, quake etc.
                            So in the end you have a lot of players who are really skilled in arena/twitch fps games and a small amount of new players which actually choose option B instad of option A (= another game). The relatively new players will get their asses kicked from all the old guys and most of them will propaly loose interest in the game because of that.
                            So in the end the only people that will play the new UT are the ones that already play UT right now.
                            Well when Ive said that I really thought about the matchmaking in CS:GO letting match up with random team mates. Not the match making in general.
                            Just, that you shouldnt be able to queue alone in a 5v5 game. Look for four friends, or other players that will form a premade team with you, and then it should let you queue up.
                            Thats not as hard as finding enemies on irc.
                            veritas filia temporis

                            Comment


                              You guys are freakin ridiculous. Raging over something as stupid as achievements. If they put them into the game, let it be. You don't have to bother with them if you don't want to.

                              Oh and by the way, if you don't like Vehicle game modes, don't play them. Quit acting like its 1999 again and they are re-making UT99. If you just want UT99 with better graphics, THEN GO BACK TO UT99. NOBODY ELSE WANTS YOU HERE. D4mn near most of you guys have overly biased opinions towards players who like the other UT's or their new aspects. Epic should incorporate all of the core game modes, add in the popular game modes from previous games (Bombing Run, VCTF, Onslaught, Assault), so people can have THEIR FUN if they want to. If you think a game is totally garbage just because of one thing that has NO affect on your gameplay whatshowever and you don't like, then GO BACK TO YOUR GAME.

                              Sorry for the Ultra1!1!11!!1 rage post but I'm getting a little annoyed with these idi0ts in the forums thinking Epic should remake their favorite UT just because they liked it the best. GG =)

                              Comment


                                We have explained often enough why we don't want just a remake of UT99. If you are too lazy to read all the posts, please don't jsut throw in the 2000th of these posts.
                                veritas filia temporis

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