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Weapon Balance: Let's Get This ***** Done

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  • Please stop saying point and click like you're just brushing it off as nothing. It takes a very long time to get good aim in fps games and for the majority of players they never get to the level the best players do. Is CS noncompetitive because it's fighting mechanics are based are "Point and click".

    You seem to be forgetting "point and click" requires hitting almost pixel perfect shots to output damage. If that is "point and click" then what is spamming the mouse button with that awful high damage spread of the flak primary, or rockets which have collision that feels 4 times wider than UT99 or 2K4. Suddenly it's not point and click anymore? Your argument makes zero sense.

    All I see is developers who are bad at this game and probably gaming in general dumbing this game down to incomprehensible levels and all the while it's killing it. "I can't aim so nobody else should be able to either, it's not that I'm bad". That is the typical response weak players have when they can't accept the reality they aren't talented at fps games. When you have developers with that mindset you end up with a game like this. I could somewhat at least try to understand if the flak/rl etc required aim like they did in 99 or 2k4, but they don't. No real aim is required, the game is a compete crapshoot and that's why nobody plays weapons. The only people playing are instagib players, I guess they don't buy into your point and click argument either.
    Last edited by biggamer21; 02-01-2016, 03:49 PM.

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    • Adjusting to lag is a skill, but that's not really the point. It's mostly about visual clarity. A point I keep making, and you keep ignoring. Second, it's about accuracy. Less adjustment causes less false positives/negatives.

      We intentionally used an incompatible menu so UTcomp wouldn't run with it. It wasn't an accident that the two mods were incompatible, and newnet was the reason.

      I'm not going to stop calling it what it is. Flak and rox aren't in a good place atm, but time to target literally adds another dimension to shooting. The difficulty of any shot can be measured by the distance between your target and crosshair when you pull the trigger. AoE is used buffer that difficulty, but you still have to triangulate.
      Originally posted by Mysterial
      An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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      • I agree rl/flak are in a bad place, my gripe is you talk about hitscan weapons as if it's as simple as joining a server and pointing and clicking an enemy without taking in the factor known as aim.

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        • Point = aim. My point is 2d is it in its simplist contemporary form. Doom and wolf3d are 1d, to compare.
          Originally posted by Mysterial
          An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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          • Armadillos.

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            • Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
              One thing I noticed when comparing competitive scenes across the lake is that NA players tend to abuse it more. Especially with nenet NA player were shooting much better sniper in previous games than the numbers you are reporting.

              Even playing in TAM ladders (which had no newnet by design) seeing 40%+ was not too uncommon, and it had some talented teams, but wasn't exactly the highest levels of competition. Yet you'd see games where both teams would throw up numbers like this. They only got better as time went on.
              Same thing in europe really, 40%+ was very common in TAM and 50%+ wasn't rare either.

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              • Seriously guys, you should just check how much of players from your friendlist have more than 40% accuracy with sniper. I bet around 5%. 40% is nothing like "common" unless you are playing with less skilled players than you. Best ut4 EU TDM / duel players have average around 35% "all time" sniper accuracy.

                50%? dream.

                Originally posted by legionz View Post
                In UT4 duel I'm often shooting over 40% sniper, and I don't think I'm a particularly strong hitscan player. When we play LTS (a strong group of players) it seems like people are shooting near 50% all the time. For whatever reason it's just easy to hit with the sniper in this game, certainly much easier than it was in UT3.
                Single match is not reliable. Which is your "all time" sniper accuracy?
                Last edited by rAge.; 02-01-2016, 09:53 PM.
                http://forum.unreal.pl/image.php?u=2...ine=1223384883
                Polish community DISCORD server: https://discord.gg/eMRKbAg Join us if you are Polish and let's play some 4v4

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                • TAM. In 2k4.

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                  • Originally posted by rAge. View Post
                    Seriously guys, you should just check how much of players from your friendlist have more than 40% accuracy with sniper. I bet around 5%. 40% is nothing like "common" unless you are playing with less skilled players than you. Best ut4 EU TDM / duel players have average around 35% "all time" sniper accuracy.

                    50%? dream.



                    Single match is not reliable. Which is your "all time" sniper accuracy?
                    I'm often not seriously playing. Shooting around drunk while talking to my wife or messing around in FFA to try new sensitivity are not things I take into consideration. But all-time is 35% it appears. But when I'm actually playing seriously the percentage goes up. In the last two weeks my sniper has been under 30% in one duel that I can recall, and between 40-50% in all the other games. Take from that what you will.
                    Last edited by legionz; 02-01-2016, 10:06 PM.

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                    • Seriously rAge, UT4 isn't done. We're discussing how release clients go, because that's what matters. Not a buggy, half developed alpha with incomplete netcode, input smoothness, and frame optimization (in which my "not a good hit scan player" sniper accuracy is on par with what you refer to as "the best UT4 players").

                      If you want to stop hyper focusing on the data that corroborates your belief, and not look at the objective reality, I don't suppose I can stop you. You are, however, welcome to join the discussion at hand, at any time.
                      Originally posted by Mysterial
                      An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                      • So I saw some NA guys posting about their sniper accuracy today. These are guys that primary play competitive CTF pugs. Best NA players I see currently playing the game. "Dream come true" I guess. I saw 'flex in enough 2k4 TAM pubs that this was no surprise to me.

                        Game still has input, collision, and animation problems. Don't even get me started on the netcode. Yet, here we are.
                        Originally posted by Mysterial
                        An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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