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  • replied
    Originally posted by Cunni View Post
    Wail, what will be the next moves following these feedbacks ?
    Updates pretty soon (est. ~one week), did some tweaks to the Minigun, Flak, Rockets already. Need to go through the remaining ones, make new artwork, do some housekeeping & testing.

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  • replied
    Just a technical points : recently the prime hubs were down in Europe. Who is in charge and needs to be contacted ?

    Wail, what will be the next moves following these feedbacks ?

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    It sure is refreshing change to try out different weaponset. I have mixed feelings about these weapons though. I played mostly TDM/TSD.

    Shock
    Dominates the playfield in pretty much all ranges. With higher power+faster primary fire rate and lesser/no deadzone close range with combos, the game could easily turn again about controlling shock which is not good gameplay imo.

    Sniper
    I like the sound effect, visual effect is so-so. Visuals seem to mess up sometimes, but it's kinda nice railgun-esque touch. Damage feels okay, except now with less effective flak/rockets it becomes even easier to pick opponents at any range.

    Flak
    Primary is definitely better than stock flak. However in network play it behaves quite strange in very close range fights. It feels sometimes that the shards spawn 2-3m in front of you instead of from the gun. It might be too tight spread, I can't really say. I would prefer stronger arc for secondary fire.

    Rocket
    Became from the best weapon in the game to worst weapon in the game. On receiving end it felt less frustrating, but I don't think I died once to single rockets, only 3-packs. I disliked using trident rocket launcher myself as travel time for the projectile was too long to use it reactively other than close range. Positive side is that it's more responsive than stock RL, but speed and splash make it feel very underpowered/useless in comparison to other weapons. Now it's pretty hard to hit a direct hit rocket and it doesn't even kill your opponent.

    Link gun
    I didn't use much link gun, secondary feels good. Secondary push effect could be something to try out.

    Stinger
    Primary fire feels good. I also tried using secondary quite a bit but it feels weird to use. From just design perspective I prefer stock stinger secondary over burst fire.

    Overall
    Hitscan power increased with these weapons, which changes how different maps play out. More precision is positive thing, it just has some side-effects that needs to be taken into consideration.

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  • replied
    These weapons are far superior from stock, but alot of the posts regarding Rocket Splash and minimum splash damage values should definitely be taken into consideration. I'm also not against 65 sniper rifle damage instead of 70, but honestly it doesn't have a huge impact on gameplay. I feel like the flak shards could be slowed just a tad and the link pulsar looks much more like what I envisioned in YemYam's concept of the weapon.
    Last edited by Quadj130; 02-18-2016, 03:21 PM.

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  • replied
    Good work on the weapons. At first I thought it was a UT99 weapons mod, seems to be similar to what I remember. Once I realised I could bind them all, I was fine.

    I'm not an expert player, have been on casually with bots since the beginning and only recently online, so I can't talk a lot about balance.

    I do think that graphically, epic was going in a good direction with their weapons.

    Rockets
    I'm a shameless rockets guy and your rocket's minimal splash was a shock to the system. Maybe a compromise?

    Link
    The link looks a bit dark and gets lost in the level someimes, as does the link pulse. I liked the green glowing link that was very easy to see.

    Shock
    The epic shock combo looked good and it's a shame to see it go (and gone it has as the main server here in aus has adopted your mutator as the default). The shock combo blast radius is so small, feels a lot like the original. I think this is good, it kind of evens the skill gap between people who can combo and people who can't. It will change the game a lot. I think somewhere between epics and yours would be good.

    Flak
    Flak seems a bit narrow, and the epic flak secondary seems to make a bit more sense to me, being more of a 'lob'.

    Stinger
    I liked secondary. The shards had some interesting applications. I'm all for interesting.

    wd
    Last edited by the_hack; 02-18-2016, 08:54 AM. Reason: clearer

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  • replied
    Played some duels yesterday on the french Unreal Prime server. So please keep in mind that I can only talk from a duel players POV. I try to keep it in mind as well.
    First of all thanks to raxxy for providing the hubs and thanks to wail for such a great initiative. As a player it's simply awesome to have those kinds of opportunities to test stuff. Simple and fun.

    On to the weapons:



    During the first few games I thought of hitscan weapons being too powerful. I think that mainly has to do with the precision of the projectile weapons, which I'm not used to anymore.
    A general feeling I had was that with projectile weapons (Mainly Flak, Rockets, Stinger secondary), was that sometimes it would become a little comical.. 2 players dancing around each other, missing plenty of shots in a row. And unless you hit a full salve with Flak, you won't really deal any damage.

    Short: Flak feels a little bit too weak and too precise with a too tight spread, if that makes sense.

    The rockets feel too 'sterile' in my eyes. I like their precision and prefer them to the stock rockets, as they are. But they have this kind of "bb-gun-feeling" to them, which is probably why I don't like them too much. From a balance perspective I would say that they're fun to play with and fairly balanced.

    The minigun secondary feels rather random and useless as it is. There might be a way to learn how to aim consistently with it, but as of now, I think you're better off simply not using it, which is a shame. Primary feels alright.

    Both sniper and shock rifle I really like. I love what you did with the sniper trail, it just feels powerful, although a little bit too 'comical' in it's current state. Currently I'm a little bit skeptical of the minimum shock-combo range, as it's pretty easy to lock down an enemy with core-spam or even combo-spam. Even more so with the abundance of ammo.

    The link gun I didn't really like. I can't really pinpoint why exactly. Maybe it's more of a visual/audio think though, because I think balance-wise it's okay-ish.

    Overall: Comical situations seem to occur too often.. where 2 players dance around each other, trying to nick away at each others health, even with powerful melee weapons. Hit scan weapons feel like the best choice at almost any given moment. Some weapons audio- and visual feedback makes them feel extremely weak in my opinion.. like link and rockets. Which kind of makes the (low-damage*high-precision=low damage output)-thing a bit worse.

    Still I feel like I would definitely prefer your weapon set over the current UT stock weapons, simply because the stock Rockets and Flak are not fun at all.

    Also, because I didn't really enjoy your Flak, here's a shout-out to Fjaru's current Flak Cannon, which feels mechanically almost perfect to me (secondary is very controversial, granted): https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...lak-cannon-mod
    I'll just leave it here and maybe you two can cooperate or merge your mods, if that's what people end up liking.


    also fb.pb wrote
    That seems like only a problem if they are playing against high level players. You obviously shouldn't balance the guns to minimize skill difference if new players are going to predominately play amongst themselves.


    I just wanted to comment that, while it's true that same tier players will always have balanced matches amongst each other, you forget that a low skilled player might find difficult-to-use weapons more frustrating than high skilled players. Simply because he won't hit as much. I think this is a rather big issue tbh. And one that could be maybe mitigated or avoided by making spread damage a little bit higher, aoe a little bit higher.. as other players here have suggested already.


    Anyway, this thread is awesome, and the people in here are too.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Take a bow, Wail. I'm floored.

    Playing Unreal Prime is the most fun I've ever had in UT4, and it makes testing out Stolid's movement mutator (and my own) that much more enjoyable. The damage levels, the amount of precision and skill needed, the clarity of the effects, the sound direction, the creative new additions - it's all terrific.

    Like many people in this thread, I feel that many of the weapons are already very close to on point. The main feedback I have is to urge caution. With so many diverse suggestions to consider, you should be wary of subconscious impulses toward overcorrection when you go to make changes.

    Shock
    I think this is my favorite Shock Rifle ever. The damage of the primary beam feels good and I like the rate of fire just where it is - for those who would like to see it faster, I'll remind you how obnoxious click-and-hold beam spam could get in UT2004. As for the combo radius, we've had years of large, super strong combos that could be impressive in terms of moving combo difficulty but less so in terms of combo placement because precision wasn't always a huge requirement. Let's give this smaller combo its day in the sun for now.

    Sniper
    I support the higher damage and lower rate of fire, and I wonder if you'd be interested in pushing it even further with a lightning gun version (think this guy) that did something wild like 90 damage with close to a 2 second cooldown so we could really dig into the concepts at this end of the spectrum and compare the differences.

    Rocket
    After six disheartening years of Terrible, Terrible Damage TM in SC2, I'm all for rescuing the UT4 one-hit wonder from a similar ignominious fate, and I trust you guys to figure out the appropriate splash damage radius and projectile speed values so I'll just leave it at that. I'd just like to repeat the notion that three rockets striking a target at the same time might not be ideal for competitive play. I dislike the stock Rocket Launcher secondary fire as much as the next guy, but I think it could be pretty good if the rate of fire were slowed to something like half or two thirds the rate of primary fire.

    Flak
    Primary feels great. Spread and damage might benefit from *slight* adjustments, but it already feels close. I think I'd prefer the flak ball to travel a bit faster with a higher arc.

    Link
    This is just heavenly, especially with hit sounds turned on. Both primary and secondary damage levels and rates of fire feel spot on. In particular, the high secondary tick rate is just pure chocolate. I'd be in favor of at least trying out a pushback effect similar to the LG in Quake. I think I'd prefer that to the lockdown effect from the UT2004 beam and I'm positive I'd prefer it to the pull effect of the UT4 beam.

    Minigun
    Minigun-type weapons usually don't appeal to me, but I find myself switching to yours all the time. Love the primary fire. Great execution, and nice touch with the higher rate of fire when you hold right click. I think the secondary is anything but laughable. The moment you decide to be gutsy and try to line up a shot, it feels like you're jumping through air and trying to find a tightrope to land on - risky, exhilarating, and totally fun. Like you said, there are many ways you can tweak the secondary fire from here. Spread, projectile speed, and the time you're allowed to hold a full charge are all likely candidates. With that in mind, I think you've already struck gold.

    Bio
    Seems like your Bio Rifle is unfinished for now, which is fine because I'm interested to see where Sidney's Bio Launcher goes in the meantime.

    Keep up the great work!

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by redfoxxxx View Post
    First off, awesome work with the weapons

    I honestly don't mind damage being reduced on the combo radius, though I do feel the ROF should be kept to what epic currently have it at. With the pace and movement of this UT, you get guys coming at you holding left click with a rocket launcher and you die instantly. It's good to have that shock ROF up so you can push them back or off balance to dodge incoming fire, or make an escape.
    Yeah shock prime could use a higher rof. The shock balls rof could be reduced to compensate?

    Also the sniper trace could be a bit thinner.

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  • replied
    much much better or nearly perfect weapon balancing, epic should use your weapon balancing for the official game.
    every problem solved, gg

    more playtesting needed for further suggestions (currently played 1-2h), but this is already really awesome.

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  • replied
    Good start. Now I'm curious to see where this is going, a lot of good points have been said at this point.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Wail View Post
    While I can understand that, doesn't it seem like the Shock Rifle is already the most powerful & versatile weapon here? What do you think that can be done to the weapon that won't make it even more powerful relative to the other weapons?
    First off, awesome work with the weapons

    I honestly don't mind damage being reduced on the combo radius, though I do feel the ROF should be kept to what epic currently have it at. With the pace and movement of this UT, you get guys coming at you holding left click with a rocket launcher and you die instantly. It's good to have that shock ROF up so you can push them back or off balance to dodge incoming fire, or make an escape.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Danko955 View Post
    I dont find this canister type that interesting.
    Its better than useless current one's primary but it still kinda looks ugly and is spamy when you shoot it.
    Someone just needs to think of something new for primary and 3rd fire option. There are many possibilities and cannister is already seen 1000 times its just a grenade type kinda.
    Secondary is great as it is now and adding web to it just ruins that great feeling when you nail someone with that big goo clean shot
    Not sure what you mean by "canister type". Could you explain ?
    I think the primary is fine as a quick trap defense. Kinda like setting up caltrop.
    Also I don't get the issue with the web with the secondary. It only activate when using the secondary of the bio in conjunction with the link secondary. It doesn't influence the secondary bio big sticky goo at all on a direct hit.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Wail View Post

    I think the Bio Launcher Epic made is pretty fun but I am not super thrilled with the idea of turning the Bio into a grenade launcher. Unreal Tournament already had a Grenade Launcher (2). I agree having a grenade launcher in the arsenal is good, but for me the bizarre flavor of having a toxic sludge weapon is wasted if we just turn it into something conventional.

    I'd rather keep the Bio and Grenade Launcher as distinct concepts and explore more out-there ideas with the Bio, even if that means it's not something that's present on every map. To me that's fine: I can see some maps wanting to use a Grenade Launcher, others might want to use the Ripper, and others might use the Bio Rifle. I'd rather see a more expansive view of the arsenal that can accommodate many different creative guns, and just let people choose what they want to play with.
    Yeah i agree on that for sure.
    Bio should shoot go in some specific way and be specific weapon and not nade launcher

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Darkloser View Post
    For the Bio, I think it can actually lack some more offensive purpose ? I mean the two modes is pretty much mining a floor if not getting a direct it.

    What about re-taking the idea of UC2, something like charging with secondary, but if you press primary instead of just releasing secondary and then release the primary you provoke a tertiary firing mode, which make the goo "bomb" to explode prematurely, creating a gaz cloud or just making it explode in little goo balls everywhere, but in both case you loose the big goo ball.
    I dont find this canister type that interesting.
    Its better than useless current one's primary but it still kinda looks ugly and is spamy when you shoot it.
    Someone just needs to think of something new for primary and 3rd fire option. There are many possibilities and cannister is already seen 1000 times its just a grenade type kinda.
    Secondary is great as it is now and adding web to it just ruins that great feeling when you nail someone with that big goo clean shot

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    For the Bio, I think it can actually lack some more offensive purpose ? I mean the two modes is pretty much mining a floor if not getting a direct it.

    What about re-taking the idea of UC2, something like charging with secondary, but if you press primary instead of just releasing secondary and then release the primary you provoke a tertiary firing mode, which make the goo "bomb" to explode prematurely, creating a gaz cloud or just making it explode in little goo balls everywhere, but in both case you loose the big goo ball.

    Leave a comment:

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