Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Unreal Prime Weapons Feedback

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #46
    Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
    Wail, Do you have a table of all your weapons and their fire rate / damage etc...?

    This could be very useful to allow for objective comparisons between each tweak or change?

    Something like this but with more columns:

    Weapon Fire Rate per second Damage Dealt Radius of Damage Weapon specific attributes Version
    Rocket Launcher 0.1
    Flak Cannon 0.2

    Also, a running changelog for each weapon.
    I keep a running changelog internally, definitely.

    I thought about creating a table like you suggested earlier, but I don't really have the time right now to create it. I don't even know how to format various things in a tabular way. Every weapon is different enough that it just breaks the idea of having a table to begin with. I'll probably try to do something like that eventually, but just pretty low on my priorities and doesn't even make a hell of a lot of sense while I'm editing stuff right now.
    Join Project: Open Tournament: OpenTournamentGame.com | Project Trello | Discord | YouTube

    Subscribe to /r/UnrealSeries - The subreddit for free & uncensored discussion of Unreal series games!

    Unreal Prime Weapons: Impact Hammer | Enforcer | BioRifle | Shock Rifle | Link Gun | Ripper | Minigun | Flak Cannon | Rocket Launcher | Sniper Rifle | Grenade Launcher | Dispersion Pistol

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by Wail View Post
      I keep a running changelog internally, definitely.

      I thought about creating a table like you suggested earlier, but I don't really have the time right now to create it. I don't even know how to format various things in a tabular way. Every weapon is different enough that it just breaks the idea of having a table to begin with. I'll probably try to do something like that eventually, but just pretty low on my priorities and doesn't even make a hell of a lot of sense while I'm editing stuff right now.
      Yep, agree on all points. I assumed you'd thought of it, but it was too time consuming and low priority.
      Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by Wail View Post
        For those of you who want a faster rate of fire and larger combo size on the Shock Rifle: While I can understand that, doesn't it seem like the Shock Rifle is already the most powerful & versatile weapon here? What do you think that can be done to the weapon that won't make it even more powerful relative to the other weapons?
        Well I don't think the shock is the most powerful weapon. But if I had to accept the increased combo size at some cost I would prefer it not be a reduced core size. A smaller or harder to hit core would only incentivize the use of standing combos that wouldn't be affected by that nerf. If it were up to me to compromise something it might be the knockback or the taping that would go, but I'm not sure even that would be necessary. I'm used to tremendous and powerful combos from UT3 and I think the official Epic shock for UT4 is already a close to perfect compromise (at least in terms of explosion radius).

        Comment


          #49
          Awesome work. These weps are going places.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by cafe
            I think that, unfortunately, most UT3 players are used to extremely powerful, low skill weapons. I think we should try to avoid that as much as possible.
            Yeah maybe the over-powerful weapons made more sense in the context of UT3s slower and more clunky gameplay but I think even most UT3 players would agree we don't want that kind of power in UT4. It's basically what Epic has actually done and it's why we're relieved to be playing Unreal Prime weapons now instead. That being said, if by "avoid as much as possible" you mean you think we should try to "avoid anything at all similar to UT3" then I don't think it fits the vision wail stated for Unreal Prime, which is to "capture the best of every UT game." I mean, I agree with you about UT3 weapons, but to imply that the best possible weapon balance for UT4 is to just do the opposite of everything that UT3 did seems silly to me. Anyway, I really like wail's weapons. He asks for feedback so I share my opinion (recovering UT3 player notwithstanding). And I think shock combos in UP are too weak right now but I don't want them to be as strong as they were in UT3.

            Comment


              #51
              Have played quite a few games with these now. Breakdown:

              Stinger: Primary seems well tuned to me. It's useful, but not much more. It can still be used to chase down low-Hp enemies which is perfect imo. Secondary seems very weak. I like the idea of secondary, but the discharge time and damage seem extremely weak to me. I hardly even used it.

              Link: Primary seems quite weak. Given that it's one of the hardest weapon modes to hit with, it needs to do reasonable damage. Nothing like Epics version, but still a bit more damage output would be good. Secondary is quite good I think. I rarely use the boost (mainly play CTF, not much point when you have tele). But it's nice to have the option.

              Shock: Primary feels good. I'm not sure if it's bugged slightly, but I found the hitscanning less accurate than the default shock. I saw my beam flying through enemy player models, without registering a hit, quite a few times (without noticeable lag also). Damage seems nice though. Secondary and combos...I actually quite like. I like the smaller ball size, and the slower movement speed. It allows for a little more shock ball spam, which then allows you to pick the ball closest to the enemy to hit for the combo. The only gripe I have with this is the combo radius is too small, as many have mentioned.

              Flak: Primary spread is too small for my liking. It just isn't as effective in close range anymore, which is what the flak is all about. Secondary seemed quite ok though.

              Rockets: Too underpowered now. Flight speed felt a bit too low (this is coming from a long-time Q3A player), and the splash was tiny. The trident formation fire mode also needs more spread.

              Sniper: I like it. Certainly an improvement on Epic's.

              Comment


                #52
                Hey,

                Good idea to try to improve weapons but imo here is some things to really change :

                Flak radius / damage is way to low, this weapon should be power full in close range
                Show: primary, rate too slow, should keep epic rate | secondary : TOO SLOW also and too much damage (close fight we just have to spam shock ball and its bad, its better to hit many time with primary, thats why we need a bigger primary rate.) |Combo : damage or radius should be increase and become back like epics (the shock is one of the UT special weapon, if we kill it we kill ut : ) )
                Rocket : no spash damage, should increase it
                Sniper : rate is too slow

                Rest seems good to me.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by Wail View Post
                  These are already point collision, at least from the obvious settings. I'm going to be doing some experimentation later to confirm that this is the case. I agree I'd like to make direct hits with these harder, so I may have to try and implement my own collision specifically for these projectiles.

                  The other thing I'd like is to reduce secondary rate of fire but retaining combo speed: This isn't supported currently. I may be able to do a work around, but I am not sure it will be successful.

                  For those of you who want a faster rate of fire and larger combo size on the Shock Rifle: While I can understand that, doesn't it seem like the Shock Rifle is already the most powerful & versatile weapon here? What do you think that can be done to the weapon that won't make it even more powerful relative to the other weapons?
                  Ah, I thought they were only point collision for the environment (IE walls and stuff). As for the RoF I remember Café said he was working on that a while back? What happened to that?

                  To balance it while making combos more useful I'd reduce primary damage to 40, make core speed 2% slower, make combo size 5-7% larger. It would be really nice if it was possible to instead reduce core RoF while keeping close range combo ability though.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by cafe
                    I think that, unfortunately, most UT3 players are used to extremely powerful, low skill weapons. I think we should try to avoid that as much as possible.
                    To be fair, UT99 players are used to powerful weapons too, and as far as the wail shock, without knowing the actual numbers, the combo radius feels even smaller than 2k4.
                    Ðarth|UA|
                    Youtube

                    Come play CTF and Elimination Pick Up Games (PUGS) with us at: https://discord.gg/BbPPCBx . You can also go to http://ut4pugs.us Hope to see you all there!

                    Comment


                      #55
                      UT99 had powerful weapons. UT3 had powerful weapons. 2k4 had underpowered projectiles.

                      I think UT99 and UT3 were fine because of no ping comp and they also had movement to be able to dodge away from that.
                      Steam
                      irc.globalgamers.net #galaxy #unrealtournament #ut4pugs
                      UT Username - nvz
                      gg! Galaxy Gaming Community


                      SPECS
                      || Core i5-4670k @ 4.2 gHz || ASUS GTX 1070 4GB VRAM ||ASUS VG248QE ‑ 24in 144Hz || Random 54 inch TV || Mouse - Razer Deathadder Chroma || Keyboard - Microsoft Sindwinder X4 || Case - Cyberpower Titan X || 16 gb DDR3 RAM || Logitech g930 Wireless Surround sound Headset || Steelseries QCK heavy + Mouse pad ||

                      #PREALPHA

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Hey wail, first i'd like to say that it have been a really good suprise. I love it ! More speed, less deadly spam, and quick weapon change !
                        so:

                        -Enforcer/ Hammer: you should try to change it too, to see what it can change in gameplay

                        -Linkgun: In general i like it dispite the link burst, i prefer the link pull.

                        -Minigun: I love the fire rate and damage of the primary and the fact that you can change the fire rate speed by pressing both mouse keys is very nice, it should by like that officialy. But i don't like the secondary at all because it's too slow to load, to shoot and even the velocity of the bullet is too slow, That kinda make it useless. i prefer the standard one.

                        -Flak canon: Omg i love it ! Obviously less deadly primary spam at longue range, i really like the damage done by the pilet at middle and longue range but i feel like at very close range the damage is not enougth. For the flak secondary, i feel the secondary ball to be too slow, not enought velocity, it goes down too soon but at first sight the damage seems good.

                        Rocket luncher: Well i love it ! I love the speed, the damages and the old school rocket loading is just awsome, i really missed it. May be the grenade could be add on the secondary or to the enforcer (idk). For the damage i love the fact that the splash damage doesn't give a lot of damage but instead that the direct hit is deadly ( more skilly) but rocket jump doesn't do enougth damage. I also would like to see in test the close range rocket making more damage to the holder to avoid people to process on suicide actions and break the gameplay.

                        -Shock rifle: I love it! Combo radius/damage is perfect to me (less one shot and it need more skill to aligne very effective hit), core damage is too big, ut99 core firerate is freackin cool, but the shock primary seems a little bit slow.

                        -Sniper rifle: The sniper shooting tracing effect is way too thick, the zoom is too crownded, too much useless informations. The fire rate seems too slow but it didn't shock me, i think i would be used to it.

                        -Bio rifle: I prefer the first version, the default one than the new one. I especialy don't like the secondary of the new one but i think that bio grenade could be added to the default with other default fire type.

                        So to conclude, i really like it ! More strategic, less spam, more skill to kill, It's harder to kill with just only one weapon, it force you to use different weapons.

                        Thanks for making it

                        Sorry for my english ^^
                        scientistpac logo animation | Reign of blood [Frag movie] | scientistpac Twitch | scientistpac Youtube Channel |

                        UnrealPUGs trailer | UnrealPUGs Facebook | UnrealPUGs Twitter | UnrealPUGs Website | UnrealPUGs Youtube |

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Where have I been? I just had my first experience with Unreal Prime and loved it.

                          I've been on the hate-train lately. It has everything to do with UT4's Lag Compensation. While it's obviously still there with the UP weapons, it netcode is certainly less annoying due to how less devastating the UP weapons are.



                          Flak Cannon: Perfect. I love the iconic sounds, the bouncy shards, and the visible secondary arc.

                          Rocket Launcher: Perfect. I had forgotten how much better the loading spread feels vs the loading chain.

                          Sniper Rifle: Perfect. I would, however, really enjoy the option to choose from a selection of classic UT/2K3/2K4/UT3 sniper scopes and sounds.

                          Pulse / Link: This is the one gun that I think needs a complete change. While the UP version of it works great, the gun is just boring. I'd love to see something similar to Quake Live's Lightening Gun.

                          Mini-Gun: Perfect. I really don't see myself using the secondary mode, though. However, just the fact that the OP/Annoying shards are removed is enough for me to render this gun as Perfect. I would personally just go with the classic, "Primary slower / tighter spread; secondary faster / wider spread".

                          Shock Rifle. Primary fire is too slow, IMO. Secondary and combo is great, though.

                          Goo. It doesn't matter what anyone does to this weapon. It's nothing more but an upset weapon and should be completely removed. It just needs to go.
                          www.mouserpad.com

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by darthUA View Post
                            To be fair, UT99 players are used to powerful weapons too, and as far as the wail shock, without knowing the actual numbers, the combo radius feels even smaller than 2k4.
                            UT99 weapons may seem powerful today, but when most of us played, 70-100 ping was considered to be fantastic. There was no lag compensation etc. We had to lead out targets by several feet etc.

                            UT3/UT4 projectile weapons are OP. Players without great aim can make a devastating impact - especially now with this ****code.
                            www.mouserpad.com

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by cafe
                              @nyte and Darth, what I really meant is that the combination of high power and low skill (low precision/poor skill differentiation) is what should be avoided. In stock UT, pretty much everyone can use the flak and rockets. You don't benefit especially much from being "good" with either because they are very forgiving for poor aim.
                              I agree with this and love the high precision of wails weapons. The problem with where wails weapons are now (IMO) are that they are almost too high precision. While that is ok for someone like you and me, other lesser skilled players won't be able to hit anything and will get frustrated very easy, wanting to go back to stock weapon, which will just make wails weapons used by the upper echelon of players only. To make them a little more accessible, upping the rocket splash, flak spread and combo radius slightly (and I do mean slightly) would help. All those seem to be even more high precision than their 2k4 counterparts. I don't want (and I think nyte also doesn't want) anything close to the size of vanilla ut4 weapon radius sizes. Just a small bump up from where they are now. If you think about UT4 weapons being too noob friendly and wail's being too pro heavy, finding a balance between them is, i think, the sweet spot. That balance is what made 99 so accessible and successful. I want to make it clear though, I would rather play with wail's weapons at their current state than vanilla ut4 weapons at their current state, all day everyday.
                              Ðarth|UA|
                              Youtube

                              Come play CTF and Elimination Pick Up Games (PUGS) with us at: https://discord.gg/BbPPCBx . You can also go to http://ut4pugs.us Hope to see you all there!

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by darthUA View Post
                                I agree with this and love the high precision of wails weapons. The problem with where wails weapons are now (IMO) are that they are almost too high precision. While that is ok for someone like you and me, other lesser skilled players won't be able to hit anything and will get frustrated very easy
                                That seems like only a problem if they are playing against high level players. You obviously shouldn't balance the guns to minimize skill difference if new players are going to predominately play amongst themselves. Chess wouldn't be more fun if every player had 5 queens. Likewise chess is inherently deeper than checkers where all the pieces are the same and the skill gap lowered. I'd much rather have a deep game than a spam-fest. If Epic is serious about promoting the E-Sports aspect they should too.

                                A mutator like this is troubling because again the community is showing early signs of clearly dividing itself. In previous games it was mostly artificial (bright skins) or functional things (scoreboards). Requiring weapon re-balance mods that fundamentally alter the game is not a good start. I really really hope that the changes that work here are noticed and influence the development process rather than a permanent need for community driven mods to make the game functional in terms of competition.
                                Last edited by pb.; 02-17-2016, 02:29 PM.
                                Come join us for pickup games http://ut4pugs.us

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X