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    Creating a Hybrid UT Game.

    Well, I'd like to start off this thread by saying this is really just about brainstorming and not about creating a realistic plan to accomplish the ideas that will be outlined. So, you don't need to post just to say that you hate the idea or that it won't work etc. If you have something cool you'd like to contribute--e.g., an extension, modification, or constructive criticism of the idea--please feel free to do so.

    PROBLEM:
    One thing I've noticed about UT games is that much of what makes it a good experience comes from the maps that are played. So, when the players see a new game released, it just doesn't feel like UT unless all of the old maps are ported into the new game. This has happened for pretty much every UT that has been released. The problem with this is that the movement, weapons, powerups, etc. are different between each game. This tends to mess up the balance of the map really badly, or just generally make the map not as much fun to play.

    PROPOSED SOLUTION:
    Because we all know that the porting of these old maps is inevitable, how about we plan for it this time? How about designing UT to be a hybrid game with map specific movement, weapons and powerups? This way we can play the original maps as they were meant to be played. In UT2004, there were some mutators and map designs that attempted to merge two games. For example, Deck-17 in ut2004 replaced the lightning gun with a, SUPPOSEDLY, more ut99 style sniper rifle. Other maps also did this, like CTF-Face-classic. Another example is the boost dodging mutator in UT2004, which makes the movement more similar to that found in UT2003.

    I'm sure there are other examples that I missed. Regardless, I think that all of these attempts failed at what they were meant to achieve. They were either too different from the original to fulfill the same role (UT2004 Sniper Rifle vs. UT99 Sniper Rifle) or they were obscure optional settings that practically nobody ever used (Boost Dodge Mutator). I think that by integrating the movement and weapons into the map design, these two problems can be eliminated because it will be a standard setting that is specifically designed to recreate the experience of playing that map.

    Again, this is just brainstorming, but let me know what you think.

    #2
    Cafe, while I do see you as a respectable member of the community, I disagree with this concept for one simple reason.

    This idea is a compromise for lazy unreal ed developers that simply import an old map and re-scale it. They aren't actually making a map for UT4, but instead importing classic maps because there wasn't a proper remake made.

    I think a better solution is for Epic and the community to make PROPER UT4 specific remakes upon release. That way we don't have unreal ed newbies importing maps designed in UT99 for UT4.

    Yes, we want a new game, a new feeling, etc... but we are definitely going to get these poor imports from random unreal ed newbs. Hopefully the competitive community won't accept some of these maps into the community this time around. However, the 2k4 community was left with little choice since there was such a poor map selection in the CTF realm.

    Deck, Liandri, Grendelkeep, Antalus, etc... and let's not forget popular custom maps like Terra, Azcanize, etc...

    Yes, we want a new game, a new feeling, etc... but we are definitely going to get these poor imports from random unreal ed newbs. Hopefully the competitive community won't accept some of these maps into the community this time around. However, the 2k4 community was left with little choice since there was such a poor map selection in the CTF realm.
    Last edited by sLY1838; 05-22-2014, 08:16 PM.

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      #3
      Originally posted by sLY1838 View Post
      Cafe, while I do see you as a respectable member of the community, I disagree with this concept for one simple reason.

      This idea is a compromise for lazy unreal ed developers that simply import an old map and re-scale it. They aren't actually making a map for UT4, but instead importing classic maps because there wasn't a proper remake made.

      I think a better solution is for Epic and the community to make PROPER UT4 specific maps upon release. That way we don't have unreal ed newbies importing maps designed in UT99 for UT4.
      That's a great point that I fully agree with. I guess I'm seeing it differently. Clearly UT99 and UT2004 were great games, as evidenced by the fact that people still play them so many years later. I want those games to be incorporated into the new UT, so that we can have one install for 3 (maybe 4) great games. UT4 can still have a fresh new movement style. I just see this as an opportunity to remake the old games and have them coexist all in the same package. No more arguing about which game the new UT should be modeled after, because the best that UT99 and UT2004 had to offer will be added regardless.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by sLY1838 View Post
        Cafe, while I do see you as a respectable member of the community, I disagree with this concept for one simple reason.

        This idea is a compromise for lazy unreal ed developers that simply import an old map and re-scale it. They aren't actually making a map for UT4, but instead importing classic maps because there wasn't a proper remake made.

        I think a better solution is for Epic and the community to make PROPER UT4 specific remakes upon release. That way we don't have unreal ed newbies importing maps designed in UT99 for UT4.

        Deck, Liandri, Grendelkeep, Antalus, etc... and let's not forget popular custom maps like Terra, Azcanize, etc...

        Yes, we want a new game, a new feeling, etc... but we are definitely going to get these poor imports from random unreal ed newbs. Hopefully the competitive community won't accept some of these maps into the community this time around. However, the 2k4 community was left with little choice since there was such a poor map selection in the CTF realm.
        I agree. A single style UT is a better idea unless players want to develop mutators. Old maps should be brought to current scale, even the popular Grendelkeep, which I think is an awful map hehe.
        Steam
        irc.globalgamers.net #galaxy #unrealtournament #ut4pugs
        UT Username - nvz
        gg! Galaxy Gaming Community


        SPECS
        || Core i5-4670k @ 4.2 gHz || ASUS GTX 1070 4GB VRAM ||ASUS VG248QE ‑ 24in 144Hz || Random 54 inch TV || Mouse - Razer Deathadder Chroma || Keyboard - Microsoft Sindwinder X4 || Case - Cyberpower Titan X || 16 gb DDR3 RAM || Logitech g930 Wireless Surround sound Headset || Steelseries QCK heavy + Mouse pad ||

        #PREALPHA

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by nvz View Post
          I agree. A single style UT is a better idea unless players want to develop mutators. Old maps should be brought to current scale, even the popular Grendelkeep, which I think is an awful map hehe.
          I know, that would be ideal. Although, it's hard to deny that there isn't a ton of fantastic game play to be found in either ut99 or ut2004. Even though you and I see the ideal solution being a totally fresh game, not everyone sees it this way. The porting has already begun:
          https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...9-and-2k4-Maps

          While this is mostly for testing purposes, I guarantee these maps will show up in the new game. Why not make them play properly? That's all this is about.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by cafe View Post
            That's a great point that I fully agree with. I guess I'm seeing it differently. Clearly UT99 and UT2004 were great games, as evidenced by the fact that people still play them so many years later. I want those games to be incorporated into the new UT, so that we can have one install for 3 (maybe 4) great games. UT4 can still have a fresh new movement style. I just see this as an opportunity to remake the old games and have them coexist all in the same package. No more arguing about which game the new UT should be modeled after, because the best that UT99 and UT2004 had to offer will be added regardless.
            I don't get it. Why not just keep playing those games? IMO, there is no point reintroducing it with the new UT. A waste of resources.

            Comment


              #7
              New game, new maps. Nostalgia is way too much a factor in this community already. Well there are maps that just pop up over the time, but desinging the core game around some people that live too much in the past so they don't have to "move on", seems silly.

              Comment


                #8
                CS:GO had only old maps (apart from casual maps) when it launched and people liked it that way, so why shouldn't it work here?

                New maps are always cool, but I totally want to see old maps like let's say Deck return.
                Signature removed, over allowed size

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think there is a handful of maps that have made a comeback since UT 99. If there is an issue with movement, etc. there is the option of making mods and mutators. If enough people like it, buzz will rise and go forth from there.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by raeg View Post
                    New game, new maps. Nostalgia is way too much a factor in this community already. Well there are maps that just pop up over the time, but desinging the core game around some people that live too much in the past so they don't have to "move on", seems silly.
                    While I agree with you I think that it's important that you understand that's not what this is about. In the same way that some (typically bad) maps will change the gravity or environment by default, the idea here is that the maps could be designed to have different movement and weapons by default. Most of the assets could probably be ported over from previous UT games. The idea would be to merge all of the past UT games along side the newest version. It would be a really cool experience to have all of these games under "one roof". After UT3, many players went back to their favorite UT game. This way, they won't have to. I know it sounds lame, but give the idea a chance. A modern engine carries many benefits besides graphics. UT99 hasn't been updated in YEARS, and yet people still play it. I'm sure there will come a time when newer operating systems won't even be able to support it anymore. Let's bring it into the 21st century.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Cafe, I think it is really a great idea.
                      It would be a huge mentality change to have a couple different sets of mecanics / weapons but I think this would make for a really great game that might have a chance to assemble everyone. Of course its has to be very well thought out to avoid more fragmentation but the general idea is awesome. Im happy just at the thought of playing rankin 2k4 style then duking it out in Deck with ut99 moves and weapons (and getting violently destroyed) and playing a completely new 3rd map with UT4's mecanics.

                      I guess this idea will scare a lot of people but I can totally see this working and being a lot of fun.
                      Curve projectiles prototype: Thread Code

                      UTComp-CTF: @github

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Some people think this is a decent idea but it would split the competitive community in general, which is not good. It's fun to have mutators like this to experiment with movement but vanilla-style movement should be implemented into all maps and gameplay.
                        Steam
                        irc.globalgamers.net #galaxy #unrealtournament #ut4pugs
                        UT Username - nvz
                        gg! Galaxy Gaming Community


                        SPECS
                        || Core i5-4670k @ 4.2 gHz || ASUS GTX 1070 4GB VRAM ||ASUS VG248QE ‑ 24in 144Hz || Random 54 inch TV || Mouse - Razer Deathadder Chroma || Keyboard - Microsoft Sindwinder X4 || Case - Cyberpower Titan X || 16 gb DDR3 RAM || Logitech g930 Wireless Surround sound Headset || Steelseries QCK heavy + Mouse pad ||

                        #PREALPHA

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by cafe View Post
                          While I agree with you I think that it's important that you understand that's not what this is about. In the same way that some (typically bad) maps will change the gravity or environment by default, the idea here is that the maps could be designed to have different movement and weapons by default. Most of the assets could probably be ported over from previous UT games. The idea would be to merge all of the past UT games along side the newest version. It would be a really cool experience to have all of these games under "one roof". After UT3, many players went back to their favorite UT game. This way, they won't have to. I know it sounds lame, but give the idea a chance. A modern engine carries many benefits besides graphics. UT99 hasn't been updated in YEARS, and yet people still play it. I'm sure there will come a time when newer operating systems won't even be able to support it anymore. Let's bring it into the 21st century.
                          Two thumbs up. Especially what I quoted in bold. I've thought about this myself, mainly because the thought-line of "out with old, in with the new" simply doesn't work for everyone. I know people will say "it'll split the community", but I don't buy that.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            No Deck

                            No Duku

                            No game.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I always hated Deck tbh. It's one of the most overrated maps in video-games for me. But that's off topic.

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