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    Mouse speed needs to be independent from framerate.

    In the current alpha protoype the speed you turn is greatly dependent upon your framerate. The speed you turn in-game should always be the same far a particular amount of mouse movement. As it is right now, framerate fluctuation would make the game unplayable in a complex map due to the inconsistent turning speed.

    #2
    It's called an alpha prototype for a reason. They will (right?) implement proper input later on.
    Also known as musilowski.
    UE user since 1998.

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      #3
      Hm. I would think all input functionality would already exist inside/with the engine(UE4) before the game is made. This just sounds like plain hardware(?) lag to me... In what game running at 5fps does the mouse movement turn/feel like ~120fps?

      Do you have any examples of games with this "framerate independent mouse speed"?

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        #4
        Originally posted by ojrask View Post
        It's called an alpha prototype for a reason. They will (right?) implement proper input later on.
        So, it's not a good idea to mention ideas and recommendations during the alpha prototype?

        Originally posted by CT007 View Post
        Hm. I would think all input functionality would already exist inside/with the engine(UE4) before the game is made. This just sounds like plain hardware(?) lag to me... In what game running at 5fps does the mouse movement turn/feel like ~120fps?

        Do you have any examples of games with this "framerate independent mouse speed"?
        It's not just hardware lag, because every FPS I've played has framerate independent mouse speed. There is a loss of accuracy and smoothness with less frame rate of course, but the overall rotation speed should still match the mouse movement independent of frame rate. It's possible that this is caused by playing from the editor, but that's all I really have to go on for now.

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          #5
          Originally posted by LagMasterSam View Post
          So, it's not a good idea to mention ideas and recommendations during the alpha prototype?



          It's not just hardware lag, because every FPS I've played has framerate independent mouse speed. There is a loss of accuracy and smoothness with less frame rate of course, but the overall rotation speed should still match the mouse movement independent of frame rate. It's possible that this is caused by playing from the editor, but that's all I really have to go on for now.
          Ok, so this would be a feature request for some kind of likely impossible technology. I understand now.

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            #6
            No mouse will ever feel responsive at 5FPS, simply because you'll only be able to see the response to movements you perform when 1/5 seconds have passed, which's the time it'll take to render that frame.

            Even if there's no real mouse lag in the input, it'll always be perceived as mouse lag. You can, however, still hit a flickshot without seeing it happen and then, 1/5 seconds later, only see the message that you killed someone in between frames, but the mouse will still feel and look delayed.
            DM-1on1-Deck8 | DM-1on1-BirdCage | DM-Complexo (GoldenEye Redesign) | DM-ShootThemMalcomsGood | DM-1on1-Toxicity

            Designer at Candango Games. Check my Gamasutra Blog.

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              #7
              Originally posted by LagMasterSam View Post
              In the current alpha protoype the speed you turn is greatly dependent upon your framerate. The speed you turn in-game should always be the same far a particular amount of mouse movement. As it is right now, framerate fluctuation would make the game unplayable in a complex map due to the inconsistent turning speed.
              The term your looking for is "RAW INPUT."

              And yes, UT 4 DEFINITELY NEEDS RAW MOUSE INPUT. I don't want it going through windows adding mouse acceleration, I don't want my sensitivity to dynamically change with my frame rate either.

              Raw mouse input should be enabled by default in ALL games -- Acceleration and what not should be handled by the game your playing, not tacked on top of the base windows accel. This is bad design, if you want tight controls, handle them completely in the engine.

              Originally posted by CT007 View Post
              Ok, so this would be a feature request for some kind of likely impossible technology. I understand now.
              Incorrect, this is a very real design problem that a bunch of games suffer from, but the ones designed to be competitive nip in the bud by adding raw mouse input.

              The magic you'd be referring to, would be eliminating mouse lag while Vsync is enabled. I'm not sure if this is possible, but in all my years of gaming [having monitors with ~1ms response time and 60hz or higher] with beefy rigs that can maintain the frame rate cap, I've never once seen a multiplayer game that doesn't have mouse lag with vsync enabled.

              But games look SOOO much better with vsync on and tearing drives me bananas -- this is irrespective of frame rate, and has nothing to do with raw mouse input.
              Last edited by Laokin; 05-27-2014, 11:29 AM.

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                #8
                Originally posted by Laokin View Post
                The term your looking for is "RAW INPUT."

                The magic you'd be referring to, would be eliminating mouse lag while Vsync is enabled.
                Maybe he's already played games with raw input(eg, Quake Live)? You can still experience the same noticeable framerate fluctuation with vysnc on or off.

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                  #9
                  I guess I'm having a hard time articulating exactly what I mean, so I'll try again.

                  I'm talking about having the rotation in-game match 1:1 with the mouse movement on the mouse pad. For example, if I move my mouse 5 centimeters on the mouse pad and turn 45 degrees in the game at 120fps, I should still turn 45 degrees with a 5 centimeter move at 25fps. I know there will be some loss of accuracy, responsiveness and smoothness at lower framerates, but it shouldn't be a situation where I have to move the mouse 4 times further to get the same amount of rotation (that's about what it's like right now).

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by LagMasterSam View Post
                    I guess I'm having a hard time articulating exactly what I mean, so I'll try again.

                    I'm talking about having the rotation in-game match 1:1 with the mouse movement on the mouse pad. For example, if I move my mouse 5 centimeters on the mouse pad and turn 45 degrees in the game at 120fps, I should still turn 45 degrees with a 5 centimeter move at 25fps. I know there will be some loss of accuracy, responsiveness and smoothness at lower framerates, but it shouldn't be a situation where I have to move the mouse 4 times further to get the same amount of rotation (that's about what it's like right now).
                    No, I/we understood the first time. It's basically a feature request for something that doesn't exist(to my knowledge).

                    Just play with lower settings, or a better computer, so you have fast fps, and don't need to worry about lag like this. Better hardware solves everything(almost). ...Who wants to play with low fps? If this feature existed, you could move your cursor correctly, but you're still gonna die equally as fast as the guy with the same 25fps, without this feature!
                    Last edited by CT007; 05-28-2014, 05:32 PM.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by CT007 View Post
                      No, I/we understood the first time. It's basically a feature request for something that doesn't exist(to my knowledge).
                      'It' does exist. You can run the sim tick independently from the rendering, so that a slow framerate won't slow down the game's simulation and inputs. Really I'd prefer if every game did this, because things like physics, AI and animation can go haywire if you don't.

                      On the reverse, many games can render faster than they sim, and locking the two together can produce bad results here too. In Crysis 3, there were swinging crates that would lock the framerate to 30 fps... This didn't cause a problem on consoles because the framerate was always locked to 30 fps, but on PC this caused many players to believe there was a serious framerate issue earlier in the game. It was just the crates.


                      Though it's probable that Unreal separates sim from render already, and it could just be a glitchy form of mouse smoothing (or one of the innumerable other issues with mouse input) that is causing the OP's problem.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by LagMasterSam View Post
                        In the current alpha protoype the speed you turn is greatly dependent upon your framerate. The speed you turn in-game should always be the same far a particular amount of mouse movement. As it is right now, framerate fluctuation would make the game unplayable in a complex map due to the inconsistent turning speed.
                        How do you get to play the prototype ? I forgot xD

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
                          'It' does exist. You can run the sim tick independently from the rendering, so that a slow framerate won't slow down the game's simulation and inputs.
                          Hm, neat. Where does this exist, exactly(games)?

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Laokin View Post
                            ...The magic you'd be referring to, would be eliminating mouse lag while Vsync is enabled. I'm not sure if this is possible...
                            It is possible and has been for years. It is triple buffering, real triple buffering that is of course. Directx does not have this feature but OpenGL does have it.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by CT007 View Post
                              Hm, neat. Where does this exist, exactly(games)?
                              An article describing game loops. It also links two other articles that may be helpful.

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