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  • The BioGun/BioRifle/GooGun/Useless Gun

    Personally I feel this weapon needs to go. It does nothing but hold back game play. I really cant think of a single redeeming quality about this weapon. At no point in any match have I thought "I should get the bio rifle" or "awesome I spawned near the bio rifle". Its time we faced the facts that this weapon is garbage and replaced it with something better. I know I know, "but its been in the game since the 90s". Sure they created a neat web thingy for the bio rifle, still doesnt make it useful. They have actually added more features to the bio rifle than any other weapon and I still have no interest in using it. I challenge anyone here to prove that the bio rifle is useful beyond the next weapon you pass in a map.

    Pros of the Bio Rifle:
    -If you hold alt fire for 2-3 seconds and hit someone with the shot, you can one hit kill them, but its a slow moving high arc shot.
    -If you hold alt fire for 2-3 seconds and shoot the goo then pull out a pulse rifle a shoot it with secondary you make an extremely visible trap.
    -Primary fire sounds like rapid pooping.

    Cons of the Bio Rifle:
    -You hate when you spawn next to it.
    -Extremely high skill level required to kill efficiently with.
    -Primary fire is boring.
    -Secondary fire is a bit less boring.
    -You will never run out of ammo because by the time you are anywhere close to running out of ammo, you're dead.
    -Time to kill is super high.

    Honestly, why do we keep including this weapon in UT games? Its a failed weapon, but you know what? Thats OK! We know what not to do. Lets stop wasting a weapon slot and efforts on a gun that people dont want to use. Every weapon in UT should be a weapon that people enjoy using. No one enjoys the Bio Rifle.

    Weapons that arent in UT4 that would be more fun than the Bio Rifle:
    -Ripper
    -Napalm Gun
    -Grenade Launcher
    -Proximity Mines
    -A rock
    -Some sort of Electricity Gun
    -A trap weapon: Web rifle, freeze weapon, tickle weapon.
    -Hand Grenades
    -Spitting on the enemy

    All im saying is that weapon is the least used, least effective, least enjoyed weapon in the game. Maybe its time we replaced it with something people will actually want. Look at all the weapons in the game, every weapon any player can pick up and use successfully, the bio rifle never comes to mind.
    89
    Yes
    16.85%
    15
    No
    83.15%
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  • #2
    The Bio Rifle is a great concept, but it's consistently been held back by opinions of people who are opposed to it becoming anything more than a one-trick pony. That doesn't mean the concept itself is bad, it just means we need to be more willing to accept radical change to the weapon.

    Right now the Bio-Link idea is quite fun, but I don't see this really becoming a core addition to the functionality of the gun because the amount of time invested for the payoff is not going to be worth it for most scenarios.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by -jay- View Post
      Cons of the Bio Rifle:
      -Extremely high skill level required to kill efficiently with.
      Wut? It's ridiculous to say that one-shot kill of "magnetic" projectile requires extremely high skill level.
      It was a complete disaster in ut3 - the bio glob delivered 300 damage and auto aimed you (at least it had that feeling), which resulted in that every new player was running around with it in hope for easy frags.
      It was beyond annoying in duels. Back then we blamed console roots for that.

      But the problem still persists in current version. Sometimes I just see how bio glob lands a step away from me, I don't move an inch in that way and somehow I get killed by it. I don't know what it is - too large hitbox for projectile or netcode issues or just a bug. I've seen a lot of corrections for bio in recent months release notes, which means devs acknowledge and address the issues, but it's still broken.

      As for vote-poll: didn't vote, cause the vote question is inaccurate.
      It's not about replacing the gun, it's about making it unique in own way and fair to use.

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      • #4
        My only concern with Bio rifle currently is the delay for alt-spam fire... Why does it have to fire one normal shot first? Get rid of that and it will be nice. The floating goo works great in long corridors for DM (spam from one side of the corridor to the other and players will meet a wave floating goo), people haven't just realized it's useful tactics yet but yea the delay before the rapid-fire kicks in needs to go, it always feels so awkward.
        Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 12-14-2014, 07:51 AM.

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        • #5
          Bio rifle secondary fire is awesome in UT3! Suggesting to remove or replace the bio rifle is an insult for me.
          If it's becoming as good as UT3's bio it's great already, if they can improve it with sliding/crawling and web-spinning functions even better.
          I'm not yet satisfied with the current pre-alpha version but the biorifle is a must. Especially the sticky, loaded alt-fire glob!
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          • #6
            Honestly, why do we keep including this weapon in UT games? Its a failed weapon, but you know what? Thats OK! We know what not to do. Lets stop wasting a weapon slot and efforts on a gun that people dont want to use. Every weapon in UT should be a weapon that people enjoy using. No one enjoys the Bio Rifle.
            Thank you ever so much for projecting your own opinion into your own, fallacious logic.

            GitzZz would like to have a word with you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swYbipom8OE

            The bio rifle is like everything else; If you put time and effort into it you'll be rewarded. Why don't you try to do that instead of throwing your toys out of the pram because you , seemingly, are unable to do so at present and want to remove it from the game because you cannot be bothered to do so.
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            Last edited by DSK-; 12-14-2014, 07:07 PM.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wail View Post
              The Bio Rifle is a great concept, but it's consistently been held back by opinions of people who are opposed to it becoming anything more than a one-trick pony. That doesn't mean the concept itself is bad, it just means we need to be more willing to accept radical change to the weapon.

              Right now the Bio-Link idea is quite fun, but I don't see this really becoming a core addition to the functionality of the gun because the amount of time invested for the payoff is not going to be worth it for most scenarios.
              That, and the fact the Bio-link can be easily disarmed by using flak, rockets, link primary, enforcer etc... If it can be easily spotted, chances are that the time to set the trap up will quickly be wasted, as well as resources...

              But on topic here, the Bio Rifle isn't a useless gun, not even close. You have Area Denial, OHK against people with max health and shields, indirect attack capabilities. In UC2, the Bio Rifle had sapient goo and toxic airburst clouds, giving more versatility.

              So, the Bio Rifle is not garbage.

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              • #8
                No way do I want the Bio Rifle removed. I would rather have more guns and more tricks than less guns and less things to master. Looks like you're the only single person who thinks the Bio needs to go -Jay-

                Like Wail said, the concept of the Bio is great we just have to be more flexible with it's functions. Treating it less rigidly designed as a one trick pony and more in the lines of a multiple purpose weapon. We've seen many interesting ideas on what to do with the Bio but I can't see a single upside to axing it.

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                • #9
                  Each weapon, including the Bio has a risk/reward for using it. To remove it would undoubtedly unbalance the game to me. While it's not usually someone's weapon of choice, using the alt fire can buy you enough time to get to another weapon of more use in any given situation if you happen to spawn next to it.

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                  • #10
                    I voted for it to stay.. but it needs updated.

                    I vote for:
                    1.) Semi-Transparent Goo.
                    2.) Longer hold time on bio web


                    EDIT: I have a newer idea.. see below
                    Last edited by UffDa; 12-15-2014, 03:34 PM.
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                    • #11
                      I mentioned this in a thread a while back as for me, I'd have no problem with the removal of bio. There's just no situation where it is ever the go-to weapon.

                      In TDM + duel its very difficult to see much use for the bio/link web either - but perhaps there is a place for it in other mods.

                      Of course, no problem with trying to find ways in which to make it useful, but I've yet to see one.
                      Last edited by w)v; 12-15-2014, 05:30 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Well, i can understand some of your concerns jay, but i voted "no".

                        99% of the people only use the secondary fire, for it's instakill capabilities (and well, it's not even a guaranteed hit and even less so, a death) that's where i would understand why you judge the thing "useless" .

                        Imo the problem lies more into a kinda "useless" primary (very very very few people use it correctly at the right time) and that's why it should be worked out to a better solution.
                        You can notice Epicgames heard people concerns and are trying to do smth about it: the spider web. It's a bad solution imo (but at least it's a solution proposed to try and do smth innovative). Combining 2 of the "less used" weapons of the set is not smth many will do (as you need 2 guns, to begin with and think about combining them and it takes so much time for not much etc...) even though on paper, it looks alrighty: Things doesnt always work like the books (c) Chaz Kramer
                        That's an emblematic gun, smth people associate UT with imo but, as you mentioned, it's not because it also was there since forever that it should stay no matter how bad it is, I can understand that and it's true. But for one, I think the solution is more:

                        - "How to make the prime fire EFFICIENT, without it being overkill or difficult to set?"

                        Make the prime fire relevant to use that way, according to me and it worth what it worth, of course:

                        The spider web in combination of the 2 guns is just a pain to set up, you need 2 guns and time and it can be disabled easily. The other spiderweb concept is cool but it's only related to the secondary fire. What I propose for primary fire is this:
                        Click image for larger version

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                        It's actually pretty simple and dont pretend to reinvent anything. The original use of goo (i remember the ut2k3 pre-game loading screens!) was to set traps to some narrow corridors to disallow people to come in a corridor or, if they decide so, to be 1) damaged and/or 2) warn you they are maybe coming this way.
                        • Why is Bio-prime never used???

                        Because it's notably "hard" to hit with for a too little reward or to set trap with
                        • How could this be fixed?

                        They are a lot of ways to do it, so it works "on paper" but we noticed things "on paper" may only work "on paper"...
                        You can modify the RoF, the Dph (damage per hit), the hitbox, add/remove features, modify its physics and so on. What I propose here is basically a combination of: adding a small feature, (that) increase the inbox. If a glob lying is 30cm/units wide, it seems nice to have a 75-90cms/units diameter?

                        One bio prime has now a radius. If people walks on it (the bio glob) or are being hit directly, like usual a 20ish dmg (26 in ut3 dunno yet for ut4).

                        Though to reinforce the original use of bio prime (trapping, movement detector), if someone is nearby and hit the radius (it doesnt have to be OVERKILL to make it more useful), he could:
                        - Loose smth like 7hp per hit and the glob disappear (the movement detector role is completed) or, better, the radius disappear (1 hit movement detector) to only let the glob direct hitbox.
                        - Loose like 3-4hp per sec as long as the opponent stays nearby and as long as the glob is not destroyed

                        In those case, the sound emitted by the opponent acts like a movement detector and the prime use is now reinforced with a radius allowing more damage.

                        Simple, not overkill (dmg and radius and blabla TBD), reinforce the original role of the gun.

                        Sorry for the aparté, that should be more in a topic in the weapon related part of the forum, but it was necessary imo, to explain why i voted "no" rather that saying: "no just because, no other reasons than because".
                        A very simple yet (imho) relevant way to rebalance a gun / firing mode by reinforcing the feature(s) it was originally meant to display. Rather than getting rid of the gun, I think they are simple ways to make it more useful/enjoyable.
                        :<
                        Last edited by Lwlf; 12-15-2014, 06:27 AM.
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                        • #13
                          Bio rifle is good weapon, iconic UT weapon... its just not good atm, primary is useless and socondary should be better, IMO bio web is not good for the game, but it doesnt matter coz probebly no one is gonna use it.

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                          • #14
                            Primary fire is indeed pretty useless. Fully charged goo is quite useful though and the alternative spam-fire is useful under certain situations (although feels a bit cheapish but somewhat amusing due to the sliding goo) but I wish the spam-fire would immediatly activate and not having to wait for one primary fire shot before it activates since often you're dead before it's activated if you have one guy firing rockets or whatever at you already.

                            I don't know if it does it but to make primary fire slightly useful I'd make the goo always slowly starting chasing the nearby player, at least I don't think it works/does always do that if it's supposed to since I'm still a bit confused regarding how this chasing goo mechanic is supposed to activate but primary fire IMO could always follow players to make up for the very slow rate of fire and not overly huge damage.
                            Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 12-15-2014, 09:57 AM.

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                            • #15
                              I do not agree with the OP's assertion that the Goo Gun is worthless. What weapon do you think should replace it? Do you have another weapon in mind that can essentially be used in the same situations the Bio is made for? What other core weapon can lay down an protective cover area that you can leave behind without guarding or activating?
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